Patapsco-Avalon-Conditions

[RetroG]

That old thread was huge and took too long to load.
What does Avalon look like for tomorrow?

[BikerMiker]

GREAT!

What time are you going out there?

mike

[urbaindk]

That old thread was huge and took too long to load.
What does Avalon look like for tomorrow?

That's why you click that little arrow thingy by the last poster's name. Takes you right to the last post.

Conditions by Hilltop were good last night. Somebody went in and debermed a bunch of stuff (looks good) and rerouted a couple of little sections of trail. Too bad they took out the little double drop near the end of the Buzzard's rock trail. (I know it was ugly and a huge errosion issue). The switch back that replaced it is super tight and will probably send plenty of riders on unexpected forays through the bushes because there is no speed trap to slow you down before it's too late.

[escatmore]

Oh I pray you are not talking about my favourite obstacle in the park...

Amy? What have you done?

[BikerMiker]

Yup, that's the one!

mike

[cbass]

Oh I pray you are not talking about my favourite obstacle in the park...

Amy? What have you done?


I have fond memories of a split helmet from that one when I dug in my front tire in between drops and launched ass over teakettle down the trail. No love lost there.

I agree that more than one rider will blow right through that switchback the first time they see it. The first time I saw it was riding up it last weekend so I didn't have that issue at 4mph. 8-)

[escatmore]

Aye, on one of the few rides I rode with the young Mr. Klasmeier, I was laid out flat many feet below the second laughing my kiester off...

those were the days.

I'll check it on Wednesday, before completely losing my mind.

[BikerMiker]

Go ahead, it's gone... Yeah, I remember watching you eat sh*t.

mike

[escatmore]

She says it's just covered up...

[kdweb]

Anybody else come close to blowing lunch while rolling up Levering under the 95 bridge? :eek:

[stanley02]

I noticed over the past couple of weeks while riding Patapsco on rockburn branch trail some little pink utility flags, and then yesterday I noticed that it looks someone has cut a new trail. Does anyone know about this? It looks like it cut thru the rockburn loop.

[escatmore]

I talked to Amy last Friday about the latest goings on and our future work dates. Still need to get you guys a report on that, short story, she's rerouting the majority of the east and south legs of the Rockburn Branch Trail. Prepare for changes, she's all about the sustainable trail. And from the looks of it that sometimes affects some good pieces. More details to follow soon, well as soon as I get off my butt...

Eric

[cbass]

There's some good stuff there, but also quite a bit of erosion.
Change is good. Hopefully we can encourage some twists, turns, and fun stuff into the re-route.

[escatmore]

The reroute is flagged it's full distance.

'Orange flags will be the maintained trail. Pink flags will be the access points for the unmaintained trails. This only applies to the lower southeast section where the unmaintained trail goes off to Belmont. The south section of the trail where the dips are, are also pink flags.'

She mentioned that there is a lot of trail cut off by this reroute, so be prepared. There are likely wetlands and steep sections she's trying to avoid. Have a look, I hope to today or tomorrow, and let me know if you have any questions or requests. If we speak up now changes can be easily made, if we speak up after it's in, well, not so easy.

If you want to be part of the work, the park is doing it as one of their own maintenance days on Sept 29. I'll get back to you with details like where and when.

Eric

[mike a]

Yeah we noticed the new flagged trails yesterday. The Rockburn branch side is in rough shape so this will be good for the park.

btw...anyone know how wet it is out there? Is Wed a no-go?

[BikerMiker]

Go wed later on and let us know how it is. I'd go for it. We didn't get THAT much rain...

mike

[old_bashturd]

Yeah we noticed the new flagged trails yesterday. The Rockburn branch side is in rough shape so this will be good for the park.

btw...anyone know how wet it is out there? Is Wed a no-go?

Hardly any rain fell here, and as dry as they've been, it could only help conditions.

[jon_baler]

My source said the trails were good, so I went out for a ride tonight. Trails were just so-so tonight. Should be fine tomorrow afternoon.

[stanley02]

So are the new flagged trails on Rockburn Branch able to be ridden now? I don't want to ride on them yet if they aren't ready.

[escatmore]

Feel free to check it out. Let me know if you love or hate it.

That work day on the 29th, led by the park, will meet at the avalon pavilions at 9:00 AM.

Indeed, 50/50 on the trails, your source apologizes for being too optimistic.

[pbayne]

I was out this afternoon. Rode most of the trails from the Avalon area, both sides of river. Everything was in great shape. The new rockburn stuff flows real nice. Does anyone know the tricks to get all the way to the mckeldin area from avalon? I've been trying, but can't quite get there without lots of road riding.

[RetroG]

Does anyone know the tricks to get all the way to the mckeldin area from avalon? I've been trying, but can't quite get there without lots of road riding.
Do you have the map titled: Patapsco Valley State Park (Complete guide)? It shows all the areas between Avalon and McKeldin.
Patapsco Map (www.easycart.net/MarylandDepartmentofNaturalResource s/Central_Maryland_Trail_Guides.html)

[riderx]

Does anyone know the tricks to get all the way to the mckeldin area from avalon? I've been trying, but can't quite get there without lots of road riding.If you want to maximize the trail riding you really need to know the area well. The map RetroG pointed to is the best place to get started, but some of the trails on it no longer exist or are very difficult to find. It's just the nature of those "unmaintained trails".

Before the map existed I spent several years piecing things together. When the map came out I was able to fill in a couple of missing links I was searching for. I have friends who have done it with me several times and still could not navigate it on their own. It's 50 miles round trip the way we do it. If you go, make sure you are self sufficient, there's no place to pick up food except a detour in Ellicott City (which is near the beginning/end of the journey) and water refills are minimal (Hollofield and McKeldin). Bailing out to the road won't shorten your trip, it will make it longer.

Here's the GPS route for the TdP (Tour de Patapsco). It's botched a little on the return trip between Rt. 70 and Rt. 40 - that straight line should follow the same squiggly line that we did on the way out. The elevation numbers on the link are off, the guy who uploaded it didn't use the correction feature, climbing was 7100+ when I dumped it to some topo software on my PC.

GPS downloadable track
http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/2734221

[BikerMiker]

Hey Joe, we should plan a TdP with A TON of people (and some park staff) for next year. Late Spring or early Summer 08? Whaddya think?

We can do a trailside drop of some fluids and food the day before with BOB trailers just in case.

mike

[riderx]

Hey Joe, we should plan a TdP with A TON of people (and some park staff) for next year. Late Spring or early Summer 08? Whaddya think?

We can do a trailside drop of some fluids and food the day before with BOB trailers just in case.

mike

Late spring or early summer is definitely best. You need some long dry spells or the trails between Daniels dam and Woodstock are really muddy.

In my experience, lots of people spells failure. The only time we failed to complete it was when we had a group of 10-12 people. Because no one (except me) really knows the route you need to stop and wait a lot to keep people together. Then you get mechanicals, etc. It may only be 50 miles, but it's a tough 50 miles. It's usually a 7 - 8 hour ride with fairly strong riders and few stops.

A one way shuttle might be better if we want to take park staff and a big group, but that can be a pain to coordinate. It's also what I would call "adventure biking", it's not all groomed singletrack, so it might not be to some people's taste. On the other hand, you get to ride trail you never new existed withing Patapsco's boundries.

Anyway, we should talk and maybe coordinate something. Plan now for spring 08 and we might get it done.

[riderx]

Oh yeah, here are a few pictures from along the way:

This is from the first trip where I was able to string together things end to end, Avalon to Sykesville. 32 miles one way.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/singlespeedoutlaw/sets/72157594515387717/

These are a couple from the 2005 TdP:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/singlespeedoutlaw/sets/72157594523907547/

[atldc9]

Rockburn side was loose and fast this afternoon. Lots of people out there. It looks like the Park has been cutting some new trails and re-routing some others.

Good day to ride...

[atldc9]

Oh yeah, here are a few pictures from along the way:

This is from the first trip where I was able to string together things end to end, Avalon to Sykesville. 32 miles one way.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/singlespeedoutlaw/sets/72157594515387717/

These are a couple from the 2005 TdP:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/singlespeedoutlaw/sets/72157594523907547/

Do you have a route or map of the way you went? I have wanted to do this for a while, but have never got around to it.


*****
Disregard, found the link below.
*****

[old_bashturd]

Ran into 2 young boys, around 12-14 riding 2 ATV’s on the farm loop this afternoon on one of the new cuts. I gave them a stern warning not to ride the trails in the Park and told them I’d report them. They were polite and apologetic and promised they’d leave right away. They weren’t wearing any protective gear, and I’m sure they live on the park boundary. (Probably the same guys who rode through when the trails had that wonderful snow freeze last winter and ruined it) :mad:

[cbass]

all good out there this afternoon...i didn't see a single puddle.
get out and ride.

[bikerRob]

/Rockburn side was loose and fast this afternoon. Lots of people out there. It looks like the Park has been cutting some new trails and re-routing some others.

Good day to ride...

9/16/07 >> ...the minute I turn my back.. :rolleyes: It's been quite a while since I've ridden Avalon. Nothing like flying down a trail expecting the same ol', same ol' when suddenly... :eek: What the hell are all these flags, What's this trail here, which way do I go.. :confused: After scrolling back on the thread I see that the park people are up to their shenanigans again. Pardon me but I get a little worried when they start doing this because not all of the re-routing ( or trail closures ) they've done in the past have turned out to be ...um.."well thought out". I'll give um' an "A" for effort but I wish they would consult the MORE people more and let us know what they're planning. ( ***Note** If they did consult MORE...well...I've not been checking the forums lately much....(shuffling feet)....so if I'm wrong, ...never mind. :D ) end of disclaimer. Oh yeah, the trails were in good shape on Saturday...dry as a bone and fast.

[cbass]

I don't know...

It seems to me that in the past several years the trails have become more sustainable and ridable sooner after rain. Not to mention some of the straight, boring, wide, eroded fall line trails have been replaced by swoopy, turny, tight singletrack.

Sure there are trails that I miss, but on balance the trail crew and MORE volunteers have made Patapsco Avalon a significantly better trail system.

If we get one or two of the hiking only trails re-opened...mmmm yeah.

I think all of this points to the solid two-way relationship between the Park and MORE.

cheers! :)

[BikerMiker]

I gotta tell ya, there is NO QUESTION that more of the park is more rideable after rain events than EVER before. Eric Crawford is the MORE trial liaison and he has been on top of the situation out there since taking over in Feb. He continues to do a great job working with Amy.

The new stuff on Morning Choice is textbook. IMBA textbook, that is. Amy is designing all of it. While *SOME* of the early projects undertaken by park staff were low on the learning curve, there's NO QUESTION that the later projects were very well done by all standards (not just, 'uh, I don't like it cuz it's different').

The new trail will require LESS maintenance (which is VERY important for those of us who actually DO a lot of trail maintenance every year).

As a reminder, DNR staff check this site DAILY (!) for information on what is going on out here. No need to censor yourself, but just reminding.

So, get involved and you'll see the trail turn out the way you want! Buy a copy of the new IMBA trail book. Learn. Get involved. Get dirty. It's the only way.

mike

[pbayne]

Thanks,

Thats just what I needed. There were two sections I hadn't figured out yet without doing lots of road riding. I've been getting into the longer races like the Michaux series' new longer format. Its hard to find interested off-road riding where you can go for 40-50 miles without doing endless loops around here. The Gambrill trails are the only ones I know of with that kind of mileage but thats a little rough to do often.

Paul

[old_bashturd]

I don't know...

It seems to me that in the past several years the trails have become more sustainable and ridable sooner after rain. Not to mention some of the straight, boring, wide, eroded fall line trails have been replaced by swoopy, turny, tight singletrack.



I've been riding the Avalon area since 1996, and have to agree that the trails are much better. They dry quicker, less problem areas, (read Mud Holes) and are allot more fun. The new ridge cut (well, its about 2years old now) on the Ho Co side is just one example of what was once a a strait series of eroded hills turned into a fun, rolling curvy ST. Sure, some of the old stuff was really challanging, but what has replaced it is more fun IMHO.
Kudos to MORE and the Park trail crews!

[bikerRob]

I've been riding the Avalon area since 1996, and have to agree that the trails are much better. They dry quicker, less problem areas, (read Mud Holes) and are allot more fun. The new ridge cut (well, its about 2years old now) on the Ho Co side is just one example of what was once a a strait series of eroded hills turned into a fun, rolling curvy ST. Sure, some of the old stuff was really challanging, but what has replaced it is more fun IMHO.
Kudos to MORE and the Park trail crews!

9/16/07 >> O.B. I have to agree with everything you said. Yes, the trails do drain better now but you have to keep in mind that the area has had very low levels of precipitation in the past couple years. Last year I can't even remember seeing snow. The re-routing of the Ridge trail for the most part is a work of art. Gone are all the badly eroded hills and mucky mud holes. I can't complain too much as I doubt I could have done any better if I had chosen the new route myself. Still, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for constructive criticism. I don't mean to step on anyones toes but if all we ever do is glad hand each other sooner or later some important issues are bound to be glossed over and I don't think that is in anyones best interest. There are two hills on the Ridge trail that I think should have been done differently. One is where the Old gazebo is that was re-routed not too long ago. The hill there was rutted and badly eroded. Something needed to be done. The Park decided to re-route around the eroded trail. The problem was when they did this they ended up with a steeper hill that will probably end up eroding as well.
I don't know about anyone else but that hill is a real bitch when climbing. Add some water/soft mud to the mix and you'll have almost no traction. Then there's the other hill (on the ridge trail) where the intersection with the Morning Choice trail is (was). That hill is rather steep too. I remember trying to ride up it (N.E.) during the winter when the trails were more soft. When my rear tire began to slip out it became hike-a-bike time. I'm not sure how a better re-route might have been done. Maybe a more gradual bench cut could have been done, who knows. What I do know is that when these hills are wet they are going to get torn up by people who don't like to walk. I'm sure the construction going on with the new re-routes will go fine. I didn't mean to come off as sounding critical of that. Now with all that said, it really doesn't matter all that much for the moment. We have trail, we can ride it. If a section of the trail gets bad I'm sure someone will come along, decide to fix it and claim it was their intention to fix it all along.... :o

...edited...The new trail will require LESS maintenance (which is VERY important for those of us who actually DO a lot of trail maintenance ever


year).

As a reminder, DNR staff check this site DAILY (!) for information on what is going on out here. No need to censor yourself, but just reminding.

So, get involved and you'll see the trail turn out the way you want! Buy a copy of the new IMBA trail book. Learn. Get involved. Get dirty. It's the only way.

mike

Mike, seeing that you mentioned, "the need not to censor yourself", I have to assume this comment was intended to be aimed at me. Okay, so I don't actually DO a lot of trail maintenance. In the work days I did show up for no one ever asked me "where to build the trail" as it was already decided by someone else. Since my toes are now the ones tingling, pardon me while I do a quick two-step. It needs to be said that just because someone doesn't do the group rides or partake on trail maintenance days, that doesn't mean they don't want to. Speaking for myself, I work very late hours. Showing up for a 9:30am trail workday for me would be like you showing up for a 3:30AM workday. I doubt many would show up if work days were held at 3:30AM. Nevertheless, this doesn't mean I'm not involved. I'm a member of MORE. I can read all the stuff on the IMBA website that I wish and yes I even have an old trail design book of theirs somewhere. I support MORE when ever I can in the best way that I can.....Okay....you can stick a fork in me now. :o (* cue up the, "can't we all get along" Rodney King speech)

[old_bashturd]

[QUOTE=bikerRob]9/16/07 >> I didn't mean to come off as sounding critical of that. Now with all that said, it really doesn't matter all that much for the moment. We have trail, we can ride it. If a section of the trail gets bad I'm sure someone will come along, decide to fix it and claim it was their intention to fix it all along.... :o



BR,
Don't think you're being critical, just expressing your opinion. I don't think any trail design is perfect. Even the best design will have problems. Patapsco has the other problem of being a heavily used area, with hikers, horses,(talk about trail damage when its wet) and MTB's who don't give a rat's rear about cutting trails, riding when its wet etc etc. I do agree with you that some of the stuff could be designed better, but like you, I cannot get out to too many TM days, and even if I did, probably wouldn't have any bearing on trail design and re-route decisions. Most of the folks doing this are trained and experienced. I'm sure they have to make compromises on design because of factors We're not aware of. I think you'll agree We're extremely lucky to have a trail system like Patapsco, and better yet, folks like MORE and the Park management who care enough to build and maintain some very nice trails.

(Amy did not pay me to say this) ;)

[cbass]

Current Conditions

Crisp, cool air.

Sunshine.

Preeeeee-mo trails in excellent condition.

How could it get any better?
Maybe cold beer cached in the creek crossings?
I'm putting in an official request to DNR...filling out the paperwork now. :D

Oh, and don't chainsaw all the logs.

[urbaindk]

9/16/07 >> There are two hills on the Ridge trail that I think should have been done differently. One is where the Old gazebo is that was re-routed not too long ago. The hill there was rutted and badly eroded. Something needed to be done.

Mike, seeing that you mentioned, "the need not to censor yourself", I have to assume this comment was intended to be aimed at me. )


I agree with almost everything you said. Those two hills on the Ridge trail are noodle scratchers. Why did they spend so much time fixing the trail only to leave those to hills? Who knows...

As for censure, I'm guessing Mike is talking to me and a few other freeride type riders who were pretty bent out of shape when L&C got removed. Mike said something about the parks people watching the forums after it happened and I took it to mean they were spying on us to see if we would build anything somewhere else... I kind of blew things out of proportion I think. Whatever, it's all good!

Speaking of all good. I did a park (mostly) perimeter loop yesterday, from the PNR over to Buzzards rock and down, then up Cascade, across Morning Choice and back to the PNR. All's good pretty much sums it up. Sweet conditions out there! My only complaint is that there were a whole lot of people out strolling so we really had to keep the speed down. :)

[BikerMiker]

I'm not trying to call anyone out for not doing trail maintenance. I know you support us, MORE, IMBA, mtn biking, whatever. We are on the same team, no doubt about it.

I was more speaking about how the actual trail work gets done.

When projects are chosen (these days, Amy knows WELL in advance as she is submitting grant proposals for them), you have to find out what is going on in the planning phase. Staff and MORE volunteers would meet park staff at the location and talk about laying the flags in. Pin flags, hiking boots, clinometers and a few hours later, there would be a flag line laid down.

When I say 'get involved with trail work' you don't ACTUALLY have to show up for the trail work DAY. That's the actual digging stuff (which is VERY important) but the layout and design stuff is already done. Eric, Jeff, Dan, Joe and I would meet at the park BEFORE the trail work day and hike in to the location and do the flagging. Now that we have a more professional situation over at Patapsco with Amy REALLY kicking arse out there, we are more of a construction crew. Actually, we aren't doing a lot out there as they have federal/state grant $$ to do most of the work and the park has a Dingo now.

So, get in touch with Eric Crawford (escatmore) and ask him how you can help. Most of the trail work day work is done on non-work days. It's the meetings with park staff that allow YOU to have DIRECT INFLUENCE on the layout and design. Be sure to study up on your IMBA stuff so you can really contribute. Just pointing and saying 'uh, we should go that way' isn't enough to really contribute at this level.

I have done pre-trail work rides to describe the work to be done and talk about construction and maintenance techniques and theory. I'd be happy to do a 'History of Patapsco Trail Work Ride' with Crawford, Joe, Dan, Jeff and whoever else. We've been working out there (with IMBA even) since around 1993 or so. If this is something you are interested in, please let me know and I'd be happy to set that up.

Short question, long answer.

mike

[riderx]

Bottom line: Like the changes or not, this is all good discussion and the back and forth of ideas, loves, hates and how the process happens is good. I'm sure there are a lot of people who read this who don't know why things are done, how the process goes or who is involved.

So far the discussion has been civil and I don't think anyone is calling out anyone for not doing trail work (although I will admit to having done so in the past), so let's keep it going.

Maybe we can continue discussion in a seperate Trail Maint. thread under the Patapsco forum so we don't clutter the actual Conditions thread. Could an ambitious moderator pull out these latest posts and start another thread?

Also, the SSO Factory Numbnuts are hoping to have some beer and maybe a BBQ at one of the fall trail days like we did in the spring if you need a nudge to come move some dirt, so stay tuned.

[escatmore]

Geez, this got long...

Short story, go ride the Rockburn branch flagged section and give me feedback before 9.29.

Long story: The discourse is good, in fact it’s exactly what we need! Old_bashturd said it perfectly in #37.

See post #14 & #29 please for your invitation to influence the reroute.

I completely understand not being able to hit the organized trail dates, life does it's own thing on it's own time...

#14 includes what the current plan is for the Rockburn Branch Trail and an invitation for you, good reader, to give 'us' any feedback, positive or negative. Us being me, and Amy, and any others inclined to comment in this forum or help me plan the next work day. I personally need it because I cannot represent every rider out there. For example, I don’t see the lines of downhillers, a few I count as friends astound me when I ride with them. And since I don’t see the trail the same as they do, their opinion is valuable to me because we are trying to address a multiuser experience, while balancing sustainability, not to mention a beginner rider, equestrians, trail runners, tree climbers…

Regarding the two poor reroutes on the Ridge, the first one was a tough one and they, the trail crew, made a call in the field. It wasn't an easy one, there was just nowhere else to go while remaining within the constraints of their mission. And that is the devilish detail, they were restricted with how far they could go from the original line. We could and have argued whether it should have been left alone or rerouted somewhere else. The reality is it's done, we'll likely fix it later, chalk it up to experience. There seems to be a little more flexibilities these days, which is good. Don't expect anything on the ridge for another few years though. In the future we'll revisit it as it begins to erode, hopefully we can go nutz and get it to sweep out in a way that's both sustainable and fun. And not to toot our own horn but 50% of my regular ride group cleans that climb, on singlespeeds. It's doable, keep trying!

The second one I think is the entrance to the first reroute we did on the ridge in Fall 2001. Mike swore it would hold and it has. We could have trucked it out and switched it back but there are some wetlands we were trying to avoid. If it gets ugly we'll fix and claim it was your plan all along, HA!

And that SSO Factory Numbnuts beer and bbq thing Joe just mentioned, I hope to have it on the 10.20 trail date.

Eric

[urbaindk]

For example, I don’t see the lines of downhillers, a few I count as friends astound me when I ride with them. And since I don’t see the trail the same as they do, their opinion is valuable to me because we are trying to address a multiuser experience, while balancing sustainability, not to mention a beginner rider, equestrians, trail runners, tree climbers…

I don't see Patapsco ever being much of a DH destination (it's just too much work), but it could be improved for the big trail bike Freeridish users who want a little more challenge but don't mind all the pedalling. I admit I don't know as much as I should about sustainability, I really should get the IMBA book. I do know that it's really tough meeting all the needs you listed but here are a few ideas and observations from my end:

An ideal trail would be something like Charcoal from the playground down to the river minus the stair section (which in it's current form I see as unsustainable, too easy to take the go around). The rocks make it fun and challenging and erosion resistant. Something like this could be built into the trail from the Campground down to the creek. (the currently cluster f*** of a erosion problem trail) There's tons of rock there just waiting to pave a single corridor of a trail through here.

I'd like to see more rock stairs or logs that you could launch off coming down but could easily be ridden or hiked up. If this were done to a transition, you could actually get quite a bit of airtime but wouldn't look too scary if you just wanted to roll it. Prime example, the buzzard's rock offshoot, not exactly a sustainable trail but it does have lots of little drops that are very fun at speed.

The same goes for rolling grade reversals. Two grade reversals in close proximity makes nice double. A grade reversal into a tight corner makes a nice hip jump. Rosaryville has lots of great examples of this kind of stuff. (Roller coaster = good) Any trail where you can pump bumps, rollers, and corners for speed as much as you can pedal is really fun. In my opinion grade reversals at Patapsco are too far and few between. (With the exception of the staircase trail, going up to the 4way.) Perfect example to the extreme, the rhythm section at any BMX track...

Tight twisty trail is an absolute necessity for keeping the challenge up yet the speed down to a reasonable level (very important for multiuse trails). An excellent example of this is Morning Choice just after you leave the field for the last time and before you come into the fourway intersection. It's really tight but you can rail the turns. With conditions like we've had lately you can really drift the corners too.

Eric, I'd love to get out and do a ride with you sometime. Show you some stuff I like, and some stuff I don't. Are you around Wednesday night, maybe 5:30 ride til dark?

[riderx]

Started a trail maint. discussion thread here (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?p=84612#post84612) so this stuff doesn't get buried with conditions reports.

Mods - anyone willing to move these recent trail building discussion posts? Thanks.

[leroy]

All trails are super dry and fast. Rode the new reroute sections of the Morning Choice trail. It will be a lot of fun when it is completed.