Wheel building tools?

[crack monkey]

I'm in the market for some wheel building tools (truing stand, dish tool, etc). Until now, for truing, I've just eye-balled my rims against the frame. I'm guessing that won't cut it for a fresh build.

Are the Park tools worth the $$$ for what will be at most a once a year activity? If not, what are other decent options?

I think I need:
- truing stand
- dishing tool
- decent spoke wrench
- linseed oil for nipples

Anything missing?

[mjbrox]

I think the best tool for building wheels is your VISA card.

[crack monkey]

While that may be true, I'm guessing a shop would charge more than the $45 I paid for the parts. And, it's something I just want to try - they're backup wheels, so if they suck, I'll just leave them hanging in the garage.

[joep]

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

(if you haven't already)

[Dirt]

I think you listed the tools pretty well. The only thing missing is one that you make yourself.

One tool that I use a lot is something to help insert the nipple for single eyelet rims. This can be as simple as threading a nipple onto a spoke backwards. I usually take a spare spoke, bend it into a loop that fits around my index finger and then cut off the excess. I can take a picture of one if that helps.

If you only use double eyelet rims, then this isn't a problem. If you've ever dropped a nipple down into a single eyelet rim and can't get it out, you know what a pain that is.

I like Park's top of the line truing stand because it holds a dish adjustment well. Honestly I haven't worked with anything else in the last 20 years, so I may not be an objective person to ask about it. I bought my truing stand in the early 1980s and haven't regretted it.

Park's spoke wrenches are really good. Again, i haven't used anyone else's in years, but there were some inferior ones many years ago that made it easy to round off a nipple if you were not careful.

I just thought of a tool that is nice to have. Ever see a nipple driver? They're great for when you're just getting things laced up. Sometimes the nipples isn't set into the rim enough to reach it with a spoke tool. THIS (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL501F00-Long+Shank+Nipple+Driver.aspx) is what I'm talking about. I'm sure you can have your LBS order one. Jenson just had one on their web site so that's the example I used.

You mentioned linseed oil for the nipples, I tend to dip the spoke threads in it, wipe enough off so that there isn't a droplet formed, then let them sit over night before building the wheel. It is less messy than trying to handle nipples with oil all over them. I know folks that do it the way you describe and their wheels turn out fine. It is a matter of personal preference.

I may have forgotten something. If so, I'm sure it'll come back to me tongith as I'm trying to go to sleep.

Good luck.

Pete

[EJensen]

I recently built my first set of wheels. I did not use a dishing tool or a truing stand, and I am quite happy with the results. I suspect that those two tools buy you convenience, as they are easier to manipulate and position than a fork or frame, which is what you're using if you build on the bike. It's easy enough to rig up something on the fork/frame to act as guides for dishing/lateral truing/vertical truing, however.

I shelled out for a tension meter. That's one tool that I can't imagine rigging up a replacement for. I was not willing to rely on my sense of feel for how much tension is correct. Others can do this by feel or twanging, but I'm a long way away from that.

I used the Spokey tool to tighten the nipples, mostly because it comes recommended by Sheldon Brown.

There are several threads on these forums, some that I started, that have a ton of good advice from experienced wheel builders.

Good luck. It's a real kick to start with a pile of parts and turn it into a set of wheels.

Regards,
Eric

[Dirt]

I think the best tool for building wheels is your VISA card.

No offense to any shop is intended. I always suggest building your own wheels. You learn a lot about how to fix things yourself.

While there are some great wheel builders out there, no-one will always take the time to do the job right the way you will.

Chicks dig guys that build their own wheels. ;)

Pete

[eggraid101]

I just built up my first ever set of wheels, and I'd recommend the Park spoke wrenches. For a truing stand, I used the one you can buy from Performance or wherever. It's a Minoura, was about $45 and it worked very well...Park may be overkill in this category. I also did without the dishing tool and that seems to be OK. I used linseed oil, too. A tip I could give you is to use some kind of work table that allows you to lay the wheel flat but have the spokes drop down between it. Two "horses" worked well for me. Have fun, that's the point of us amateurs building wheels, right?

[jvanbrecht]

I just thought of a tool that is nice to have. Ever see a nipple driver? They're great for when you're just getting things laced up. Sometimes the nipples isn't set into the rim enough to reach it with a spoke tool. THIS (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL501F00-Long+Shank+Nipple+Driver.aspx) is what I'm talking about. I'm sure you can have your LBS order one. Jenson just had one on their web site so that's the example I used.

Called a Long Shank Nipple Driver.. Sounds like a prison weapon to me... :D

[EJensen]

Called a Long Shank Nipple Driver.. Sounds like a prison weapon to me... :D
Great. Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day trying to remove that mental image from my consciousness.

[hophead]

One tool that I use a lot is something to help insert the nipple for single eyelet rims. This can be as simple as threading a nipple onto a spoke backwards. I usually take a spare spoke, bend it into a loop that fits around my index finger and then cut off the excess. I can take a picture of one if that helps.

If you only use double eyelet rims, then this isn't a problem. If you've ever dropped a nipple down into a single eyelet rim and can't get it out, you know what a pain that is.

I dropped a nipple in my rim just a few weeks ago. What a pain in the ass! I'll have to give your old spoke nipple tool a go. After I finally retrieved my nipple, I used a small piece of Bic pen housing to keep the nipple from going into the abyss.

[joep]

Forget the nipple driver. I've learned to use a common wooden BBQ skewer (pointy end). Shove it into the nipple head firm enough that it holds, then use it like a nipple driver. I've never dropped a nipple into the rim using this technique. The skewer also "disengages" itself from the nipple as the spoke is screwed in.

[allroy]

patience and perseverance.

I use the Ultimate (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17871) truing stand, which isn't bad. Not as good as the Park Pro stand but a Benjamin cheaper and does a good job for an amateur wheel builder. I also picked up a Park (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=TM-1) tension meter.

The Sheldon Brown site is pretty good, the other thing I used was this book (http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668).

I've built 6 wheels so far and I finally had to admit defeat on my last wheel and take it to the shop. It was a pretty light weight set-up and I just couldn't get it right. I have 2 more in my que.

My best advice is stick with it and do a little bit at a time, don't rush it. If you get frustrated put it down and come back later. It's worth it.

-J

[joep]

Once you have a wheel laced up, it's never too early to worry about dish, hop, and trueness. Measure all of these things often, and bring the wheel up to tension slowly keeping all of these measurements within spec. Also: 1) hold on to the spoke so it doesn't twist when you tighten the nipple, 2) stress relieve the wheel after every round of adjustments.

Warning: building wheels is addictive. When I build a wheel, I go into a trance for hours and emerge only when the reverberation of the spokes harmonizes with the oneness of the universe. Ommmm....

[crack monkey]

patience and perseverance.

I use the Ultimate (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17871) truing stand, which isn't bad.
-J

How does it stand up? It looks like it would topple over with the wheel mounted?

[mark w]

The swankest spoke wrench I've heard of is the DT one. Pricey? Yes. Grabs the spoke on all sides and reduces rounding? Definitely. Kind of like the Snap-On version of a bike tool...mostly suitable for people who make money with their tools.

That said, my park wrenches have done the trick for years. I do however recommend the self adjusting truing stand (TS-2) from Park. It's a little steep pricewise but mine is 5+ years old and still going strong.

Nipple drivers are also nice because they allow you to thread all the nipples on an equal amount from the get go which helps keep everything nice and even. I built my first set of wheels a long time ago and the most helpful book I've seen is Gerd Shraner's Art of Wheelbuilding (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Wheelbuilding-Reference-Neophytes-Wheelaholics/dp/0964983532/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/104-2892305-4451113)

Sheldon Brown's site is certainly a wealth of information as well.

[ridethewomble]

I'm building some wheels. The rims are not deep V's. I'm wondering whether to buy a long shank nipple driver (http://www.bicycletool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=19) or a short shank nipple driver (http://www.bicycletool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18).

Dirt's tip about using an old spoke, and Joe's tip about using a wooden kebab skewer both sound great. Reading, "the nipple driver makes it easy to count turns," makes me think it's worth getting an actual nipple driver, though.

The odds of me building a set of deep V's somewhere down the road are the same as those of me buying some skinny jeans, powder-coating my old Benotto pink, and then flopping, chopping, but then not taping, my bars. ...or getting into tri, and spending $10,000 on some carbon creation with 15 appendages on the bars, drink holders everywhere, and geometry that would make a time trial specialist cringe. In other words, pretty close to zero. :rolleyes:

Edit - Dirt said he lubricated the nipple/rim junction with some Phil's Tenacious Oil. I know linseed "gums up," but is it OK for instantaneous lubrication? I have an Earl Can of it sitting on the bench for spoke prep. If not, how about some good old (CHEAP) 3-in-1? Phil's Tenacious seems a little expensive for someone who is not constantly rebuilding high-end hubs. :)

[rockhead]

ridethewomble - don't know about linseed oil, but I've used quite a variety of lubes for that task including chainsaw bar oil, 2-stroke motor oil, bearing grease, and even good ol' 10W30. For the short time you need it to work for you, it really doesn't matter that much, IMO.

dirt - can you give a quick tutorial on why linseed oil?

also, I made the same type of nipple driver (amazing how many things you can make out of old spokes), but found the old spoke would sometimes thread down into the new nipple, not threading the nipple far enough onto the new spoke. So I added an old nipple to the old spoke in the opposite direction. The old nipple bottoms out at the end of the spoke's threads and prevents the new nipple from spinning on your tool. It works!

Joe - excellent idea about the wood BBQ skewer - I'll have to try that next time. Unfortunately, I'll have to go buy some for the job as I normally use old spokes sharpened to a point for my grilling. (Is there anything you CAN'T do with old spokes?) :D

BTW - I went from a truing stand I made out of wood to Park's pro stand. Definitely worth the cash.

[Dirt]

Steve: Either nipple driver will work with no problem at all. If you're ever going to build deep V rims, get the long shank. Plus chicks dig guys with long shank nipple drivers. ;)

Rockhead: Linseed oil is a wonderful thing. You apply it, dab off the excess and then let it set up over night. It kind of gels to the spoke threads and works as a lubricant when you build, and a thread protection after the wheel is built. Have you ever taken an ally nipple off of a spoke after a few years? There is a lot of oxidation and accumulated gunk from water going in and evaporating out.

Linseed oil helps prevent that a little. Wheels built with it are easier to true and the nipples are less likely to fuse a year or so down the road.

Additionally it is pretty much the only way to build a wheel that requires very high tension... like an I9 wheel. The linseed oil provides lubrication even when the spokes are wound super tight. Other oils or silicone don't lubricate once the tension reaches a certain level.

There is a level at which linseed oil doesn't lubricate too. It is just a much higher level.

I've pretty much used everything short of personal lubricants as spoke prep. My fave is linseed oil. My second choice is blue locktite.

Hope that helps.

Pete

[ridethewomble]

Thanks for the info. The parts are here, the tools are coming.

Soon it will be time to go to the basement for some alone time with Jobst Brandt. :eek:

[Dirt]

Soon it will be time to go to the basement for some alone time with Jobst Brandt. :eek:

His book is wonderful. It is the best on wheel building that I've read. I just can't get past his name. Anyone with 11 characters in their first and last name needs to have more than 2 vowels.

Sorry. I just had to say that.

Good luck.

Pete

[drevil]

His book is wonderful. It is the best on wheel building that I've read. I just can't get past his name. Anyone with 11 characters in their first and last name needs to have more than 2 vowels.

Sorry. I just had to say that.

Good luck.

PeteI've heard his first name should be pronounced "Yobst". Wuddupwidat?

Other bike related wacky pronunciations:
Tange -> Tun-gay
Dainese -> Day-uh-nee-say
SRAM -> SRAM :D

At one bike shop I worked at, a customer came in looking for "Cah-non-delay". WTF?

[Dirt]

I've heard his first name should be pronounced "Yobst". Wuddupwidat?

Other bike related wacky pronunciations:
Tange -> Tun-gay
Dainese -> Day-uh-nee-say
SRAM -> SRAM :D

At one bike shop I worked at, a customer came in looking for "Cah-non-delay". WTF?

Cannondale -> Sha-non-dah-lee (in Italian)