Tis the season to think about Lights.

[Dirt]

Oy folks.

I've had a ton of questions on the Tuesday and Thursday rides about lights and what I suggest. I thought I'd write about it and hear people's experiences.

As many of you know, my new favorite lighting system is made by Lume (http://www.lumelighting.com). Though it isn't the lightest or brightest, it is the best balance of lights that I've every used. You can get their system in a fog light (for the handlebars) or a spot light (for the head). EAch of them comes with the mount for headlight or handlebar, I've just found that this configuration works best. These are pretty expensive (though not the most expensive), but they are worth every penny if you're going to be night riding all winter.

I've had a ton of experience with NiteRider (http://www.niterider.com/) systems. While I haven't been happy with their battery performance on my Digital Headtrip and Evolution, I've heard that they've addressed these issues. Their lights are well made and give off very good light. They have some more reasonably priced systems that work quite well.

Probably some of the least expensive lights that still work pretty well are sold by Performance (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/sub_cat.cfm?subcategory_id=4320). I rode with Chris last night and his system worked great, though it wasn't the easiest thing to install. You might actually want to get a spare helmet for night riding and leave the system installed on that.

There are other systems on the market from people like Jett, NightSun, Turbocat, Light and Motion and many more. There are lots of folks that have experience with those. Please post up and share your thoughts.

I've got a few extra lighting systems around the house. I'll try and check them out and find which ones are working well. If I get one or two systems running, I'll bring them to future rides so people can experiment with them and see if they like night riding. Jim rode last night with a Cateye HL500 that he got for around $15. It just wasn't enough, though he did get a feel for what it would be like.

I hope that helps a little.

Take care.

Peter

[drevil]

Thanks Peter.

I use the '03 Light and Motion ARC cabeza (the headlight), and I whole-heartedly recommend it if you are going to do a lto of riding at night. It's been totally reliable, and it's very bright.

I think the newer version of the ARCs come with mounts for both the head and handlebar so you don't have to decide which one you want because you get both!

If you haven't seen it already, the guys at MTBR did a good review here:
http://www.mtbr.com/spotlight/lightshootout/

rickyd

[markie@unformat]

If you go through MTBR the LUME HID is 15% cheaper, which makes it a bargain for a HID system....

But the niterider storm is on sale at pricepoint and other places for a not unreasonable $260.

I am having trouble deciding on one, but favouring the Lume, is that a mistake?


I just want a light that will reliably run bright for over 3 hours....

[Robert_Merrill]

Saw a good review on Bicycling.com for the Planet Bike Dual Zone. It's on sale at Performance for $20. Anybody have any experience with it? Looks like it's just a simple handlebar mount with a couple settings; spot beam and LED. It isn't rechargable but lasts 10 hours with a couple AAA batteries. I don't plan on any hard core off road night rides, just looking for something reliable and affordable to get me home a couple times per week.

--Rob

[jks9199]

Regarding handlebar lights...
Based on my experience the other night...a handlebar only light is fine for riding home on the road or relatively clear doubletrack (think established bike paths or pretty nearly-paved community walking paths). The problem on anything approaching singletrack is that you can't see where you need to when you're looking ahead. The handlebars are busy going where they are NOW...and you need to look ahead. The helmet lights are good for that...

The CatEye light I had would have been fine for riding around my neighborhood, so if that's what you want it for, you can't beat $20 or less. But if you're actually trying to do some "real riding"...you need more light.

Jim

[riderx]

Regarding handlebar lights...
Based on my experience the other night...a handlebar only light is fine for riding home on the road or relatively clear doubletrack (think established bike paths or pretty nearly-paved community walking paths). The problem on anything approaching singletrack is that you can't see where you need to when you're looking ahead. The handlebars are busy going where they are NOW...and you need to look ahead. The helmet lights are good for that...Pretty true unless you are running a HID light. With a HID on the bars the helmet light becomes unneeded. They are THAT bright. And this is coming from someone who likes to go fast at night. If you aren't using a HID, a helmet/bar combo is the way to go.

I've had enough experience with Nite Rider (and a number of my friends have too) to not recommend them. I own both a digital and non-digital and too many times both have had to be sent back for service. Look at the reviews on MTBR and it will back me up. In my opinion their QC is not good. I'm currently running the L&M HID like Drevil and love it. My $.02

[Dirt]

Thanks for the great ideas.

Over the last 15 years of riding at night, I've come to a conclusion about what is the best setup for me.

I prefer to have the most powerful light on my head. The handlebar light can be equally powerful, but I want the optics to be more difused. I want it to put out a very wide pattern of light so it lays down shaddows. The powerful light on the head then gives detail.

This combination gives good depth perception. I had my HID on the handlebars when I got it, and though I could ride with just that light as Riderx says, I get much better vision if the more powerful, focussed light is on my head.

Please keep in mind that this is for folks who are investing big bucks in a good set of lights. I've got a lot of money into my lighting system and I am happy with how it has worked out.

Thanks again for the great ideas.

Peter

[f5000sl]

In case no one has seen this, Jenson USA has lastyears Nite Rider HIDs for $269!

[adoucett]

I did not see this thanks. I am in the market for a good light. :eek: :eek:

[dmofot]

I prefer the bar mount light over a helmet mount light. I'm not a big fan of the extra weight on my head and somehow I convinced myself a long time ago that bar mount is safer since it can't get shoved through your helmet on a crash (I know that's a little overboard, but imagination running wild and all that).

The one reason I'm thinking of getting a HID is the longer battery life. While their light is superior to other lights, it's almost too bright.

I night ride for that feeling of not knowing exactly whats coming up on the trail, that exhileration of just realizing there is a log 3 ft. in front of you, the suspense on not knowing what's just around that corner...if I could ride just by the moonlight around here - I would.

I'm currently looking into the Lume and L&M HID lights. Lume seems to have the right idea - functional art, it simply works without issue, and it's relatively inexpensive. L&M simply because the shop carries them and parts are readily available since QBP has them.

One light I will never buy again is NiteRider, never, enough said. I liked NightSun, but they seem to be a little behind the times (not the biggest fan of their mounting design). Surprisingly for the price, Performance lights do exactly what their supposed to do, shed light on the trails.

DT

[Squirrel Girl]

HID ... it's almost too bright.No, it's not :)
I night ride for that feeling of not knowing exactly whats coming up on the trail, that exhileration of just realizing there is a log 3 ft. in front of you, the suspense on not knowing what's just around that cornerActually, what I thought was fun, was on a MORE night ride and I only had my 10W Trail Rat. It wasn't as much as I'd like by itself and I rode by watching Craig ahead of me. I was pedalling as fast as I could in the dark to keep up, and I used the motion of his bike to know what to do with mine. That was tons of fun, at least on the swoopy creek trail at Wakefield. Last night I had my Lume on the handlebar and the Trail Rat on my helmet and it was really great with lots of light.

[wa2be]

I'm new to night riding this year, but have seriously enjoyed the experience (except the time I got caught out in a lightning storm 4 or 5 miles from my car). I have the NightPro Kamikaze dual beam handlebar light with a remote switch for the high beam. I put it to the test at the 24 Hours of Allamuchy in August, and was pretty happy with the performance. One thing I noticed with my NightPro light compared to some of the other riders was that it puts out a much whiter light than some of the others, which had more of a yellowish tint. I'm planning on adding a helmet light for next year. There's nothing like cruising down a fast downhill section in the dark only to notice a hairpin turn AFTER you've blown through it! Hopefully the helmet light will help with that.

[Dirt]

While their light is superior to other lights, it's almost too bright.
DT

Think of it as giving the bats and toads a suntan. ;)

Peter

[oldreliable67]

Where to ride at night? Planning on adding lites in next week or two. Being new to the area, have only ridden at Wakefield and Conway so far. Hope to visit Founainhead this weekend. Where are your favorite places to ride at nite?

[drevil]

Where to ride at night? Planning on adding lites in next week or two. Being new to the area, have only ridden at Wakefield and Conway so far. Hope to visit Founainhead this weekend. Where are your favorite places to ride at nite?

Check the Event Calendar for more details, but quickly: there are a few rides a week at Wakefield/Accotink, I do a bi-weekly one at Rosaryville, Erin Gay most likely will do some at Schaeffer Farms, and there may be some night rides at Gambrill.

[bigbadbrad]

Thanks to all for the primer on lights.

I've dabbled with this idea, have yet to do a full ride at night. I must come out and join the gang sometime. :)

Ran into a friendly rider (spotted him by the odd clicking his shoes made on the pavement ;) )... last night who had just finished the night ride. I was hanging at the Wakefield skatepark w/my kids while my oldest son --aka monkeyman-- was riding his new freeride rig. :eek:

I know serious night riding is probably enhanced by an expensive light system, but I felt it worth mentioning, when I discussed lighting systems with this guy (he had been out w/Peter Beers, et al, but I didn't catch his name), he said he actually prefers a minimalist approach: just one helmet light, which cost him about $40. :D

Right on! I'm going to see about rigging my inexpensive (on sale, <$40!) Specialized halogen (runs on heavy D-cell "water bottle" setup, but what the heck) to my helmet (may need some duct tape ;) ); maybe I'll see everyone next week.

--Brad R.
Ride on!

[markie@unformat]

A small light is fine if you ride alone (not recommended) or if the people you with have small lights.

If the people you are with have HIDs your small light is like holding a candle in front of the sun. You just wont see it.

It makes keeping up on quick rides impossible.

On another note, you want to have a pretty good idea of your lights runtime before you get an hours cycle away from the trailhead...

[Dirt]

I've met people on the trail who have less expensive systems that have worked pretty well. My friend Kathy asked me last night about systems like that.

Can some of you that are riding systems that are less than $100 post up and talk about what you're using and how its working for you?

The casual rides on Tuesday and Thursday nights probalby are slow enough that you'd be just fine with a lower powered light. You'd need something more than a flashlight, but you don't really need top of the line system.

Night Rider has the Trail Rat 2.0 system for about $110. 10 wats at 4.1amp/hours. That isn't bad for the kind of riding the casual group does at Wakefield.

TrailRat 2 at Speedgoat (http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=47672&cat=230&brand=351)

Peter

[markie@unformat]

In the "dark days" I used to ride with the old fashioned 5W vistalite and one of the original style petzl head torches that ran on 4 aa batteries.

It was a fine set up, but if I didnt know the trail I was on really well it made going rather slow.


The lume HID cost me as much as a whole bike, but its pretty nice not wondering what is 20 feet ahead, or when its battery is going to fail. Its 3 hour plus run-time is reassuring.

[bigbadbrad]

Hey Peter: thanks; good suggestion (RE discussion on lights <$100).

Also, thanks to Markie@unformat; great suggestion. It just occurred to me that I've got one of those Petzls, in addition to the Specialized halogen. I could try one or both of those on a trial run. In fact, the Petzl --just as a suggestion to anyone else who may have one in their ol' kit bag-- has two lenses, one for spot, one for broad beam. Could experiment w/either, see what works.

Anyone else out there use a Petzl or similar headlamp/"miner's cap"?

--Brad R.
Ride on!

[markie@unformat]

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47576230&parent_category_rn=4500596&vcat=REI_SEARCH

I had one of those. It was ok on the helmet because the weight is balanced front and rear.

[Dirt]

the Petzl --just as a suggestion to anyone else who may have one in their ol' kit bag-- has two lenses, one for spot, one for broad beam. Could experiment w/either, see what works.

Ride on!

Yeah, My goal was to get people talking about things that work for them. I've been riding at night long enough that I've invested in a more expensive system. Lots of people can't do that all at once. I couldn't when I got started.

I need to go back through my old systems and see if I can dig up something that still works well as a loaner. Note to self...

As for the different lenses, a broad beam works great on the handlebars. On the headlamp you want something more focused. That's my experience at least.

Good luck.

Peter

[dominicosavio]

why not make a poll, let's see which lights are MORE members' favorite?

[jks9199]

There is such a thing as too little light. It's not just a matter of keeping up; you need something that will let you see ahead a reasonable distance.

The helmet light I've got is less than $100, from Performance. I've used it a couple of times now, and about the only complaint I've got is figuring out where to shove the battery and cords... (Set aside an afternoon to play with how to attach a helmet light to your bike helmet for best and most stable fit.) It's enough to make that little CatEye handlebar light OK in the woods.

I've also ridden with just a handlebar light, and it can be fine -- if the light is bright enough for where you're riding.

Jim

[bcaverly]

This light, "Nightpro Extreme Solarc" looks interesting and is currently on sale at Nashbar for $269. Anyone else used it?

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Lights/product_122969.shtml

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=101&subcategory=1067&sku=8690&brand=

[Dirt]

I was really bummed when that light went. They're sending me another which is cool of them. In the meantime, I wanted to mess with something a little simpler. I discovered Laser Edge Lighting (http://www.bicyclelights.com) on MTBR.com forums.

It is a guy that makes lighting systems in his garage. I got a 5/15/20 watt handlebar light with a simple battery and charger and an extra pair of bulbs for $96 including shipping. The charger is a low tech charger that doesn't shut itself off. You need to unplug the battery after 12 hours. You could, however, put a timer on this from Radio Shack as a safety measure.

Here's what came with the system:

http://myroadtrips.peterbeers.net/mbrt/Bike_Repair/Laser_Edge_Lights/I_MG_0904.JPG

I'll post up how it works this weekend. I'm looking forward to goofing with it.

They have a headlight system that sells for as little as $38. With an extra battery it goes up to $48.

If I like the handlebar light, I'll get a matching headlight for the heck of it.

Let me know if you have questions (PedroGringo@yahoo.com).

Peter

[f5000sl]

A guy on our forums made his own HID light for $160.
He has put a full build description together and I can attest to them working really well.

HID lights, bild your own. (http://cyclingcentralva.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1914&hl=)

[Dirt]

A guy on our forums made his own HID light for $160.
He has put a full build description together and I can attest to them working really well.

HID lights, bild your own. (http://cyclingcentralva.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1914&hl=)

I saw that while I was spamming your boards this week. From what I could tell with the quick read of the thread, it looks like a pretty good setup. Thanks for posting up.

Peter

[bunky]

So long as we have entered the "build your own category" check out the folks in Middlebury, Vermont.

Because night riding isn't fun until you burst into flames, explode, gas yourself or electrocute yourself crossing a stream.

http://www.bikeclub.org/lightspa.htm

[drewdane]

Can some of you that are riding systems that are less than $100 post up and talk about what you're using and how its working for you?

The casual rides on Tuesday and Thursday nights probalby are slow enough that you'd be just fine with a lower powered light. TrailRat 2 at Speedgoat (http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=47672&cat=230&brand=351)

Peter
I've got a dual-lamp 10/20w bar-mounted light from Night Hawk that cost me about $100.00 a couple of years ago from Performance. It's ok - it has a muscle-wrenching sealed-lead battery, but would be alright for a casual (read: shorter) night ride.

I'm planning on getting something a little lighter and longer-lasting now that it looks like I can start making the Wakefield weeknight rides. I'll keep the Night Hawk for the commute.

[locarno]

wait a minute, its possible that the reclusive drew might become a regular at night rides? cheers!

[bikerRob]

A guy on our forums made his own HID light for $160.
He has put a full build description together and I can attest to them working really well.

HID lights, bild your own. (http://cyclingcentralva.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1914&hl=)
11/24/04 >> A great link for the do-it-yourselfer...Thanks! Just remember, if something goes wrong, you can't take it back. Oh, and I'm sure you're going to have some shipping fees for some of that stuff. However the link you gave had a great link for replacing your battery. It was so good I thought I would post it again. As far as I know, this is the best battery web site I've come across yet. They actually make battery sets geared toward bike lights...chargers included...at a decent price. Check it out! (see link) http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=707

[drewdane]

wait a minute, its possible that the reclusive drew might become a regular at night rides? cheers!
Yup, I didn't even have to beg too much - errr, I mean, I TOLD my wife that I'm doing the Wakefield rides! Yeah, that's it - I told her so... ;)

Now if I can just get the rest of the world to stay off the outer loop of the Beltway from about 6:20 or so... :rolleyes:

[Dirt]

Yup, I didn't even have to beg too much - errr, I mean, I TOLD my wife that I'm doing the Wakefield rides! Yeah, that's it - I told her so... ;)

Now if I can just get the rest of the world to stay off the outer loop of the Beltway from about 6:20 or so... :rolleyes:

You're one up on me. I still have to beg. ;)

[bunky]

I recently purchased the NiMH 13.2V 4500 aH from batterspace.com. It comes with a standard charger. Does anybody know of a cheap smart charger for this battery? I noted that on ebay they have universal smart chargers for 6-12V but (1) my battery is 13.2V and (2) my battery's capacity is more than double the 2 aH rating for the universal smart charger.

I really don't care how long it takes to charge, but I do like the idea of having a circuit in there that cuts off the current when full charge has been achieved and tops it off occasionally. And I would prefer to not burn down my apartment complex.

Also, FYI, if you look on the trailtech.net site under motorcycles, there is the following link

http://www.trailtech.net/helmet_mounted_light_kits_1.htm

If you scroll down you will find a helmet mount kit for 129.95 instead of the 99.95 standalone light. This kit has the lamp integrated with a pigtail cord which then goes to a waterproof switch and ultimately goes to a 5mm connector. No welding involved. I checked with them and (1) you can remove the helmet mount (which is only a piece of plastic with a curved "cam" surface to fit the curvature of a motorcycle helmet which is mounted with velcro) if you like and go with the Topeak Moonshine mount as described in this thread and (2) you can specify flood or spot if you order by telephone.

[bunky]

<< I recently purchased the NiMH 13.2V 4500 aH :eek: from batterspace.com. It comes with a standard charger. Does anybody know of a cheap smart charger for this battery? I noted that on ebay they have universal smart chargers for 6-12V but (1) my battery is 13.2V and (2) my battery's capacity is more than double the 2 aH rating for the universal smart charger. >>

Oops, I meant 4.5 aH (4500 maH). 4500 aH-- now that would be fun to try carrying around! Need a truck to follow me!

[martin]

This battery (http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1269) and this light ($129 - flood or spot) (http://www.trailtech.net/helmet_mounted_light_kits_1.htm) and you have a ready to go system?

[bunky]

Problem is that the battery you chosen ALSO does not come with a smart charger. As such you need to rig it up with a Home Depot timer and even then you run the risk of over charging. The universal smart charger is rated at 6-12V, whereas these packs are 13.2v. I do not know what the effect of undervolting during charge may be.

Also, the pack you've chosen is close to 4 lbs and probably can't be put in a widemouth waterbottle.

Best solution might be to find a 12v NiMH battery and the get the smart charger. Even then, you'll only be able to have a 2.0 aH capacity pack.

To answer your question, yes that battery and that light= ready to go system assuming (1) you can live with 4 lb batter and (2) you manually recharge the battery. But, assuming you don't need the 9 hours of burn time a 9.5 aH battery will yield, you can get away with the one I mentioned above and, I THINK :confused: it will fit in this waterbottle

http://www.rei.com/product/47527606.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CYCLING_ TOC

[bikerRob]

I recently purchased the NiMH 13.2V 4500 aH from batterspace.com. It comes with a standard charger. Does anybody know of a cheap smart charger for this battery? I noted that on ebay they have universal smart chargers for 6-12V but (1) my battery is 13.2V and (2) my battery's capacity is more than double the 2 aH rating for the universal smart charger. I really don't care how long it takes to charge, but I do like the idea of having a circuit in there that cuts off the current when full charge has been achieved and tops it off occasionally. And I would prefer to not burn down my apartment complex.
12/02/04 >> Okay, you're either going to hate me for saying this or you're going to love me. You didn't mention on your post just what lighting system you were going to use this battery with so I'm going to have to guess...either a 13W H.I.D. or a 13W Halogen that runs on 13.2Volts. Both should be able to use the same battery. Okay here's where you screwed up...if you had bought the 14.8 volt, 4000mAH, Li-Ion battery set with Smart Charger included you would of had everything you wanted and more. Yes, it would of cost you about $22 more but here's what you would have got for the extra $22...a smart charger...a Li-Ion battery that is probably half the weight of your NiMH battery. A circuit built into the battery that protects against over charge and over-discharge. The web site claims a 4.5 hr. burn time for a 13Watt light (Halogen or H.I.D.). I find it interesting that the web site didn't list the weight of the 13.2 volt NiMH battery that you bought so I'm going to have to guess at the weight. However I own a 13.2 volt NiMh battery that came with my new Jet light. The F'in thing feels like it weighs about 2 lbs.!! The Li-Ion system is listed at 12.9 oz....Just think, some people spend hundreds of dollars just to drop a pound on their bike... Here's the link to the battery I'm referring to.. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1287 Okay, you can hate me now.. :o ( I have to admit I'm a little hesitate to believe everything claimed by the battery web site concerning the run times and the listed weights of their batteries)

[bunky]

No hatin. No hatin. Here's where this all came about. I wanted to go with a PVC sealed battery since the one originally pictured was not waterproof. I keep reading about cell phones with Li-ion batteries blowing up or bursting into flames. Those are about a tenth the size of the grenade originally suggested as an appropriate battery. Therefore I wanted one that was at least PVC wrapped--and even then, I am still a bit apprehensive about these batteries.

I am going to see what batteryspace's return policy is and will buy the one for which you provided the link. I haven't used the one I mentioned yet!

Just wondering--the connectors for the battery-- are they male or female and what size in mm?

Also, here is the link for the light--you are right about the light. It is a 13 watt (using max 14.8 volt) HID-, but unlike the one mentioned in the original post--this one has an integrated waterproof on-off switch on a cord that come attached to the light.

http://www.trailtech.net/helmet_mou...ight_kits_1.htm

Maybe I am nuts, but it appears that between the battery you mentioned and the light I mentioned that you can have a ready-to-ride HID light for $193 plus shipping with these two products.

[bikerRob]

...I keep reading about cell phones with Li-ion batteries blowing up or bursting into flames. Those are about a tenth the size of the grenade originally suggested as an appropriate battery...Just wondering--the connectors for the battery-- are they male or female and what size in mm?
12/02/04 >> About the connectors...that is the question...When you start messing around with wires you want to be sure to get the connections right. Somewhere on the web site they offered a connection kit (I think). It might be a good idea to contact the web site's support people and ask about what they offer to help hook all this mess together. Also ask them if the H.I.D. light has a built in ballast. I say this because all H.I.D. lights use them and the battery/light web site makes no mention of them. Maybe they are built into the light head (?). Just remember...HID lights are polarity specific so make sure you get the + and - stuff right.
I plan on using one of these batterys for a project myself whenever I get the time..you know ...Christmas and all..so let me know what you find out about the connectors. If I find out anymore pertinent information I'll be sure to pass it on. Oh, and about that catching on fire stuff...nothing like a nice warm fire on a cold day... :D ;)

[Pete]

Maybe I am the lucky one, but I've used these lights for years and nary a problem, incred light and 4 hr burn works for me. Why are they the market leader if they are so undependable>?

I've done a dozen 2-4s with 2 different NRs and never had a single issue. And, what are the issues? No one has really said what probs they have, just that "they will never ever again". Or is it hip to pile on NR now?

That said, my lite will fail next time out.

[bunky]

Biker rob wrote:

<<12/02/04 >> About the connectors...that is the question...When you start messing around with wires you want to be sure to get the connections right. Somewhere on the web site they offered a connection kit (I think). It might be a good idea to contact the web site's support people and ask about what they offer to help hook all this mess together. Also ask them if the H.I.D. light has a built in ballast. I say this because all H.I.D. lights use them and the battery/light web site makes no mention of them. Maybe they are built into the light head (?). Just remember...HID lights are polarity specific so make sure you get the + and - stuff right.
I plan on using one of these batterys for a project myself whenever I get the time..you know ...Christmas and all..so let me know what you find out about the connectors. If I find out anymore pertinent information I'll be sure to pass it on. Oh, and about that catching on fire stuff...nothing like a nice warm fire on a cold day... >

The lights do have ballasts built in. Also, I lloked more closely and the battery side is female-- this is good since the picture of the light cable looks like a male connector. It would be great is it just matched up, but I will check it all out before I plug it in.

[ou98dtbiggs]

I have owned a Performance Helmet light for a couple of years and they actually replaced the whole unit a year after I bought it! It has been another year and the battery is dead, well I found out that it was my fault cause you can't leave it plugged into the charge for more then a day-stupid me. Well now I have gotten a extra battery from batterspace.com that isn't NiCad but Li-ion like a labtop, after some fixing and sodiering of wires this looks promising brighter burn and longer life and lighter! So my advance for longer burn time or lighter battery look at Li-ion batteries to replace you NiCad and these baterries use SMART CHARGERS! yeah. I am still looking for a HID for the endurance race seeason next year, cause a snowshoe I borrowed a CAT EYE STADIUM and that light was sick for brightness, didn't even see the headlamp I had on it was so bright.

-Darren

[bikerRob]

12/02/04 >>...a Li-Ion battery that is probably half the weight of your NiMH battery. A circuit built into the battery that protects against over charge and over-discharge. .. Here's the link to the battery I'm referring to.. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1287 [/I]
12/19/04 >> I think this the first time I have ever quoted myself. Anyway, It turns out I bought one of the Li-ion batteries from Batteryspace.com. I was going to use this battery with one of my older lights. Luckily for me I had all the connectors that I needed by salvaging from all my old electronics gear.( hey, it pays to never throw anything away.. :) )...I never had to solder a single wire but unfortunately I ran across an unexpected problem. When I hooked everything up, the light wouldn't work. I have some electronics background so I think I know what the problem is. The Li-ion battery has a circuit built into it to protect the battery from over charge and discharge. It also protects against sudden power surge which is why my light won't work... :( ....(electronics...you either love 'um or you hate 'um ) As I see it the only way to get around this is to install a "soft start" circuit. I did happen to find one on the web already built for about $24 ( http://lightbrain.8m.com/twin-plus.html ) but that would mean I wouldn't be able to use the switch on my light and would require some additional wiring. The only other alternative would be to tear the shrink wrap off the battery and by-pass the PCB-IC and connect directly with the battery terminals. I'm not sure if that would be a good thing to do though. My suggestion...stick with the NiMH batteries. They don't use the PCB integrated circuit.

[ou98dtbiggs]

Well I kept my stuff, but I had some issues, and it wasn't until later I found out it wasn't the battery wires it was the cabling inside the light unit, it was a little faulty. So I took out the switch, so now the only way to turn it on is by plugging in the battery itself. I have mine hooked up but not had the chance to use it a couple of times. After I use it a couple of times I will post to let you know how everything worked out.

-Darren

[bunky]

12/19/04 >> Anyway, It turns out I bought one of the Li-ion batteries from Batteryspace.com. ...I never had to solder a single wire but unfortunately I ran across an unexpected problem. When I hooked everything up, the light wouldn't work. I have some electronics background so I think I know what the problem is. The Li-ion battery has a circuit built into it to protect the battery from over charge and discharge. It also protects against sudden power surge which is why my light won't work... :( ....(electronics...you either love 'um or you hate 'um ) As I see it the only way to get around this is to install a "soft start" circuit. I did happen to find one on the web already built for about $24 ( http://lightbrain.8m.com/twin-plus.html ) but that would mean I wouldn't be able to use the switch on my light and would require some additional wiring. The only other alternative would be to tear the shrink wrap off the battery and by-pass the PCB-IC and connect directly with the battery terminals. I'm not sure if that would be a good thing to do though. My suggestion...stick with the NiMH batteries. They don't use the PCB integrated circuit.

I am planning on using the light with the built in waterproof switch/ voltage regulator from Trailtech. Does this get me around the soft start issue or am I out of luck too? Also, how does one turn the thing off/ on if the waterproof switch/ voltage regulator is still on there? DO I need to cut that off and use the softstart switch only? Is it waterproof?

[bikerRob]

I am planning on using the light with the built in waterproof switch/ voltage regulator from Trailtech. Does this get me around the soft start issue or am I out of luck too? Also, how does one turn the thing off/ on if the waterproof switch/ voltage regulator is still on there? DO I need to cut that off and use the softstart switch only? Is it waterproof?
12/20/04 >> I quickly looked over what was offered on the Trailtech web site. The only thing I saw were the H.I.D. lights and batteries. The HID light heads they sold come with a "slow start" switch. I'm not sure though if that's what you have. As for having build in voltage regulation, I looked at the site but didn't see any mention of any such thing. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't have it. The ballast on the light probably has some sort of voltage regulation if just to maintain a workable voltage for the light to operate. Once again, the trailtech web site fails to mention a lot of tech. stuff. The batteries they sell (which are way too high in price ) also make no mention of protective circuitry. My bet is if you bought the HID light head from Trailtech and it came with the switch, you should be fine.

[bunky]

Yeah-you were right--it is a soft start switch. WAAHOO!~

I'll be sure to report how the combo works when I get all the parts and such.

FYI--The part number is Part No: HID-HMS on Trailtech and this is the slow-smart switch link

http://www.trailtech.net/images/hid/hid_controller_sm.jpg

[bunky]

OK, so I got all of the parts, including the Li-ion battery finally and here is the deal. The cable coming off of the light is male (i.e. light--cable--softstart switch--cable--male connector). It did come with a wiring harness that has the female end, and 2 wires coming off of it (white and red). The docs say the red wire is for the positive or hot lead.

The battery has cord with a connector with two female prong-holes in it. These prongs allow (1) the battery to be charged by the smart charger, which has the two male prongs and (2) a set of special two prong male "heads" which came with the battery can be stuck into the female prong-holes--these heads are male pigtail connectors. In other words, the prong holes in the battery cable allow the male connector heads to be connected to the battery.

Issue/ Discussion: I have a male connector coming from both the light and the battery. Do they make male-male connectors I can use and if I attempt this, how can I test the battery to ensure I am not messing up the polarity? If male-male connectors are not proper solution, I imagine I will connect a female pigtail connector onto the light's red/white wiring harness by sacrificing the female pigtail connector from an old charger I have lying around. Again, how can I test for the positive wire to ensure I am not messing up the polarity?

Thoughts?

[Dirt]

Issue/ Discussion: I have a male connector coming from both the light and the battery. Do they make male-male connectors ? Thoughts?

I believe the Bush administration is trying to get an amendment to the United States Constitution to ban this sort of thing. ;)

Peter

PS: Please accept my most sincere apology for this comment. I just couldn't resist.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Thanks for the info on the lighting system that you're building.

[bunky]

OH Thtop! You Thavage Beatht!

[bikerRob]

OK, so I got all of the parts, including the Li-ion battery finally and here is the deal. The cable coming off of the light is male (i.e. light--cable--softstart switch--cable--male connector). It did come with a wiring harness that has the female end, and 2 wires coming off of it (white and red). The docs say the red wire is for the positive or hot lead.

The battery has cord with a connector with two female prong-holes in it. These prongs allow (1) the battery to be charged by the smart charger, which has the two male prongs and (2) a set of special two prong male "heads" which came with the battery can be stuck into the female prong-holes--these heads are male pigtail connectors. In other words, the prong holes in the battery cable allow the male connector heads to be connected to the battery.

Issue/ Discussion: I have a male connector coming from both the light and the battery. Do they make male-male connectors I can use and if I attempt this, how can I test the battery to ensure I am not messing up the polarity? If male-male connectors are not proper solution, I imagine I will connect a female pigtail connector onto the light's red/white wiring harness by sacrificing the female pigtail connector from an old charger I have lying around. Again, how can I test for the positive wire to ensure I am not messing up the polarity?

Thoughts?

1/08/05 >> Okay, I might be able to help you. First, where did you get your Li-ion battery from...batteryspace.com? If so I have one and I might have an idea that will work. Believe me, I understand what you're going thru. As for finding a connector with two female ends...yeah, that would be nice ...if only you could find someone who sells the female pigtail connectors.. :rolleyes: Anyway, get back with me. If your battery is like mine I can help. (*** I hope...)

[bunky]

Yes, I did get it from batteryspace.com. Any help would be much appreciated.

[bikerRob]

OK, so I got all of the parts, including the Li-ion battery finally and here is the deal. The cable coming off of the light is male (i.e. light--cable--softstart switch--cable--male connector). It did come with a wiring harness that has the female end, and 2 wires coming off of it (white and red). The docs say the red wire is for the positive or hot lead.

The battery has cord with a connector with two female prong-holes in it. These prongs allow (1) the battery to be charged by the smart charger, which has the two male prongs and (2) a set of special two prong male "heads" which came with the battery can be stuck into the female prong-holes--these heads are male pigtail connectors. In other words, the prong holes in the battery cable allow the male connector heads to be connected to the battery.

Issue/ Discussion: I have a male connector coming from both the light and the battery. Do they make male-male connectors I can use and if I attempt this, how can I test the battery to ensure I am not messing up the polarity? If male-male connectors are not proper solution, I imagine I will connect a female pigtail connector onto the light's red/white wiring harness by sacrificing the female pigtail connector from an old charger I have lying around. Again, how can I test for the positive wire to ensure I am not messing up the polarity?

Thoughts?

1/09/05 >> Assuming that we have the same type battery (Li-ion) from the same manufacture (batteryspace.com) the connectors are probably the same. This is my suggestion...When you bought the battery they also gave you a "male connector" to work with the battery ( it has two wires at the end...one white, one black,...the white one when connected to my battery reads positive on my meter. ) That means the black in negative. I suggest soldering the female pigtail you got with the light to the connector I just mentioned. That means the red wire on the pigtail to the white wire on the male (fork type) connector...and of course the white (on the pigtail) to the black (on the male fork type)...You may wonder why white is positive on one and negative on the other. :rolleyes: Who knows...usually red is universally positive, black is universally negative, but white sometimes is used either way. Used with red it will be neg. and with black it will be positive.

First you'll have to split the wires on both plugs, bear the wire, twist together so they lay flat. I suggest making the connections off-set (at least an inch) so there is little chance of shorting.
Before soldering, test the light to make sure it is working. If it all works you can then solder the connections. If you have "shrink tubing" slide it onto the wire(s) before soldering. Once soldered, slide the shrink tubing over the bared wires and use heat to shrink the tubing. Be careful not to melt the tubing. If you can't get shrink tubing (like a small straw that fits over wires ) then just use black electrical tape (available almost anywhere...even Giant) First wrap the bared wires then wrap the whole section (road handlebar fashion) with the tape. That should give it some strength and making it look a little neater. I'm putting my e-mail in your private mail box if you need any more help. (Special note, on the female battery connector, the slightly larger hole is positive..FYI) I hope this all helps.. Rob

[bunky]

Thanks, Rob,

I think that is going to work well. Just to be safe, however, I think I will stop by Radio Shack just to make sure the batteryspace people still use the white lead coming off of their harness as positive. Then I'll splice, solder and tape up like you mentioned. I like the idea of offsetting the splices so as to avoid a short.

I'll let you know how it goes. Actually, I think I'll photograph this work in progress and then post to the board.

Thanks for all your help!

Bunky

[bikerRob]

... Just to be safe, however, I think I will stop by Radio Shack just to make sure the batteryspace people still use the white lead coming off of their harness as positive.

1/10/05 >> Glad I could help. If you're going to buy a meter they are called multi-meters. Most will measure DC voltage, DC current and AC voltage...as well as Ohms (for measuring resistance)...but alas, resistance is futile.. :)
Don't let them sell you a digital meter unless you really like spending the extra bucks. An analog one will do fine and cost a lot less...I would think somewhere around $10 to $20. I'm not sure but Radio shack might have shrink tubing but the last I checked most stores simply don't sell much electronic paraphernalia anymore.

[jks9199]

1/10/05 >>
Don't let them sell you a digital meter unless you really like spending the extra bucks. An analog one will do fine and cost a lot less...I would think somewhere around $10 to $20. I'm not sure but Radio shack might have shrink tubing but the last I checked most stores simply don't sell much electronic paraphernalia anymore.

Home Depot actually has shrink tubing...I was looking at it today. Radio Shack... a lot depends on the store. The more "urban" places don't have much in the way of parts like they used to...or they're hidden away in the back.

Jim

[bunky]

Thanks--I'll check out Home Despot. I am thinking of using one of those "Cold Heat" soldering irons. I'll take lots of pictures and let everyone know how it worked out.

[bunky]

NOTE: This is what I did-- duplicate at your own risk!

OK. You can buy these component parts and two quick crimps later have a functioning kick-butt HID light. OK, a little more complicated than that, but not much.

The key component in all of this is the battery from batteryspace.com.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1287

It comes with a "two prong" connector leading from the battery back. This battery-side is female--i.e. it's got two holes which two male prongs from charger and light fit into. The battery comes with separate two prong male "connectors heads" that allow you to plug normal round male connector heads in--for plugging into lights. A two prong male connector also comes from the smart charger for charging and plugs into the female holes in the battery wire.

What's good is that they give you an extra male 2 prong wiring harness--i.e. a piece of wire with an extra 2 prong male head on it. This is the key piece that you will connect to the light assembly and wiring harness that came with the kit from Trailtech, below:

Part No: HID-HMS
http://www.trailtech.net/images/hid/single_helmet_hid.jpg

main page is as follows: http://www.trailtech.net/helmet_mounted_light_kits_1.htm

OK- that light kit from Trailtech includes a separate wiring harness.

It goes: light---pigtail wire---smart switch---wire---male connector.

Then the wiring harness goes: female connector---wire. This separate wiring harness is what you use to connect the battery components to the lighting system.

PUT THE BATTERY PACK AND LIGHT ASIDE: following directions are for the battery wiring harness (with white and black wires) and light wiring harness (red and white).

The battery wiring harness has two wires (white and black) coming off of the main wire which, as stated above connect to a spare male 2 prong. This is the only tricky part. Even though there appears to be two wires (one white and one black--this is not the case. While sent to you as two wires, these wires are really the positive lead (white) surrounded by the ground.

From the inside out it goes--positive wire --white insulation--negative wire(all loose)--black outer casing

Because they don't give you enough extra wire to use crimp connectors you need to cut the end off and retwist the wires so you have two separate wires. To do this you must cut the end off and then very carefully cut the black outer casing of the wire lengthwise and peel off a couple of inches, careful not to damage the loosened groundwire. You'll be left with a white inner wire surrounded by loose wiring (almost hairlike). You need to unwind that loose wire from around the outside of the white wire and twist it back into a single uninsulated wire again. Then use a separate piece of electrical tape to tape the retwisted ground.
(HINT: The safer thing to do is, after making the lengthwise cut in the black outer insulation, then when the wires are separated cut the white wire off where you cut lengthwise down the black to make sure you didn't ALSO cut too deep into the white insulation which may result in a short.)
Use Wire strippers to strip off about 1/2 inch of insulation from the white (positive) wire and leave a 1/2 inch on the newly retwisted ground for crimping.

Strip off 1/2 inch from both wires on the light wiring harness (red and white).

Now that you have some play and the wires are separated and stripped the following wiring sequence is critical.

**The white (positive) wire from the battery harness goes to the red(positive) wire from the light wiring harness.

** The "black" or whatever color electrical tape you used to create the new ground (negative) on the battery harness goes to the white (negative) on the light wiring harness.

HINT: As long as you hook up the red wire (light side) to the white wire (positive battery lead) first--you know you got the positive connections right! Then do the grounds.

Connect these with the red Radioshack 18-22 guage crimp connectors. I used some electrical tape to individually tape up the positive and negative wires and then taped the whole thing up together for strength.

You now have a wiring harness that at one end has the female connector which plugs into the male light side of the system. At the other end of this harness is the male two prong connector which plugs into the female two-prong head on the battery. Disconnect the two prong interconnection and you and can plug the male two prong head on the smart charger into the female battery.

WORD TO WISE: The first time I plugged in the battery to I put the battery around the corner at my aprtment building and ran the wires around the corner. Plugged it in and waited a few minutes to make sure it didn't blow up.

Put it all in a seat-wedge and you are good to go.

Now I just need to rig up a proper handlebar mount, as the folks at Topeak didn't come though with all the needed parts!

[bunky]

BTW-the Lume bar mount is a perfect fit for this rig. See y'all on the trail!

[bunky]

Used the Trailtech/ batteryspace rig last night. I was impressed.

The wide angle Trailtech light is a great bar mount option. I have the Lume wide angle and there is still a discernable "spot" portion on it. No wonder it felt a little tunnel-like when I put the Lume on my bars. The trailtech bathes the area immediately in front of you in light. No spot effect at all and good clean light without striation lines from reflector.

I burned the light from 6:01 until 7:45. I know this is only 1.75 hrs, but it showed no signs of "bluing" when HIDs get run down.

I ended up putting the battery in a wedge bag from Performance. It worked great and once turned on, I didn't think about it again until we hit the Wakefield parking lot.

In all, I think it cost a little over $200. Not great, but not bad for HID. As I use it more, I will provide updates. Anyone wanting to slap one of these bad boys together is welcome to contact me.

Bunk

[ou98dtbiggs]

If you could get pics of your rig that would be great! I need to get some kind of setup going for night time rides and the 12hour 24 hour races so please give some photos of the set up and the steps of getting the light to go on the handle bar.

-Darren

[bunky]

http://www.lumelighting.com/store/index.asp?prid=79

Here's the link for the bar mount. I didn't realize they wanted 39 bucks for one!!! Jeez. It would be worth about 15 bucks, tops. With all of the folks riding Lumes you might ask around to see if you could barter a 12 pack of good beer or something for one. Other than that, I imagine there is SOME bike product out there (lights/ bells/ speedos/ HRMs) that will make a bar mount that will work, but man, the Lume mount holds that thing on there like it was designed for it.

The other option would be to get two hose clamps (one big and one medium). Link them together. Then fit the big one around the light housing. Clamp it down tight. Then, with the other/ medium hose clamp firmly clamped onto the housing by the big one, fasten the smaller one around the bar. You can us Tygon tubing in between the bar and the clamp so your bar won't get all cut up, or go a few times around with electrical tape. It won't look as good, and won't be as adjustable, but it's not any 39 bucks!!!

I'll try to get some pics on here soon.

B.