Shifters and high-normal Derailleur Question

[jmcgonigle]

So I've been chasing a needle in the hay stack to fix my shifting problems and got them fixed (ended up being 2 things). But... ended up with an interesting set of components and not sure if there is a fix...

For a derailleur I have a low-normal shimano xt. For shifters, I got the shimano xt rapid fire triggers. I use to have a high-normal derailleur and LX triggers.

Question is, I'm use to the thumb button making it easier to pedal (higher-bigger) gear and the finger to go faster. It seems that this setup is opposite. I expected that with the original shifter, but with the rapid fire (made for high-normal I thought) I expected it to be normal again. Am I wrong about my expectations? A I wrong about the rapid fire triggers being for the high-normal derailler?

Thanks for any head clearing you can provide.

[saxman]

A buddy of mine has a 2005 NRS that is like that...the shifters seem to work backwards for the rear der. When I tried riding the bike, it totally threw me for a loop. I'm not sure what the logic is...that the shifters should go in the same direction as the front der instead of opposite directions?

[piperj]

So I've been chasing a needle in the hay stack to fix my shifting problems and got them fixed (ended up being 2 things). But... ended up with an interesting set of components and not sure if there is a fix...

For a derailleur I have a low-normal shimano xt. For shifters, I got the shimano xt rapid fire triggers. I use to have a high-normal derailleur and LX triggers.

Question is, I'm use to the thumb button making it easier to pedal (higher-bigger) gear and the finger to go faster. It seems that this setup is opposite. I expected that with the original shifter, but with the rapid fire (made for high-normal I thought) I expected it to be normal again. Am I wrong about my expectations? A I wrong about the rapid fire triggers being for the high-normal derailler?

Thanks for any head clearing you can provide.

I don't think that the shifter pods are specific for high or low normal.

My observation is that the shifter pods sole purpose is to pull the cable against the load of the derailleur. When you shift in the opposite direction, the derailleur pulls the cable away from/out of the pod.

I ran into a similar situation a while ago. I was used to high normal, but could only find low normal to replace it.

The difference between high and low normal is where the cage sits when the spring is not extended.

After much mumbling and groaning, I stuck with the low normal. I have gotten used to it, and actually feel like the shifting is a little more accurate.

I think the logic behind the low normal is that if the cable breaks, the rear derailleur goes to the granny gear, making it easier to get off the trail.

Actually, the shifting pattern is now the same as my road bike, the way I remember it now is that the chain goes in the same direction as the trigger.

Of course, I could be way off... if so, hopefully someone will correct me.

[fausto]

the shifter just pulls or releases cable, the derailleur is high or low normal, like piperj said low-normal derailleurs spring moves it to the largest cog, where high-normal, standard derailleurs move to the lowest cog. In theory low-normal should shift better (according to shimano) because the chain moves at the optimum time in the cassettes rotation, allowing the shift ramps to work their best.

[MMMark]

I have XT rear derailleurs on both of my bikes but one is high normal and the other is low normal. I'm constantly forgetting which bike I'm on and shifting the wrong way.

[punga]

High normal (or rapid rise as Shimano likes to call them) shifters primary benefit is that you can downshift to an easier gear while under load without blowing up your drivetrain, i.e.: as you release tension on the cable, whichever kind of shifter you are using, the derailiur moves toward the largest cog, the opposite of how "Low normal" and 95% of other derailiurs in the world work. In theory, this eliminates having to soft pedal when you need an easier cog. I think Dirt mentioned somewhere that Shimano designed it because their early 8 speed chains had a nasty habit of exploding mid shift. In my experience, this set up usually works for a while initially, but tends to require more and more adjustments down the road as cables stretch and the spring wears out. Plus, some shop monkeys get confused about how to set up and adjust them (it's not hard, you just have reverse your thinking). I've had a couple Rapid Rises and have switched back to the traditional style.

Shimano specs the "high normal" style with the dual control lever/shifters because in that set up, the up or downward motion on the lever has the same effect front or rear: "push down" for a harder gear, "push up" for an easier gear. I've never been a fan of the dual control stuff as I don't like a moving target for a brake lever.

p!

[jmcgonigle]

Ok... makes sense.

Can you buy a normal XT derailleur anymore? I thought all Shimano was the low-normal now.

[piperj]

High normal (or rapid rise as Shimano likes to call them)

I think that Low normal is Rapid Rise. When you lose tension on the cable, the derailleur "rises" to the largest cog on the rear, which would be the lowest gear... :p

I'm pretty sure that all Shimano stuff is now Low normal, and you would have trouble finding High normal.

Man, don't you love how confusing everything is?

[punga]

I think that Low normal is Rapid Rise. When you lose tension on the cable, the derailleur "rises" to the largest cog on the rear, which would be the lowest gear... :p

I'm pretty sure that all Shimano stuff is now Low normal, and you would have trouble finding High normal.

Man, don't you love how confusing everything is?
You're right (I had the terms confused in my head), either design is still offered according to Shimano's website.

p!

[fausto]

Ok... makes sense.

Can you buy a normal XT derailleur anymore? I thought all Shimano was the low-normal now.


yes, they are still available. It looked like shimano was planning on doing away with top-normal and rapidfire shifters with M970, but there was enough resistance that they backpedaled.

[bwhobbs99]

My '07 XTR is High Normal, with cable slack it shifts to the smallest rear cog.

Low normal does shift better, IMHO, but I can't stand it.

I think that Low normal is Rapid Rise. When you lose tension on the cable, the derailleur "rises" to the largest cog on the rear, which would be the lowest gear... :p

I'm pretty sure that all Shimano stuff is now Low normal, and you would have trouble finding High normal.

Man, don't you love how confusing everything is?