tell me about softtails

[walsh]

I may have worn out my beloved GT dually. My rigid bike is slowly beating me to death. I'm currently kicking tires and idly soliciting opinions. I've certainly checked out MTBR and other sources.

My 3.5" travel full suspension is important to me for:
- balancing front suspension
- giving the rear rim a bit of a break when I really beef something
- making longer and more frequent rides more physically tolerable

I tend to run both my front and rear suspension VERY tight ( <10% of travel compressed at rest.) I'm guilty of riding it like a it's a hardtail, lifting the rear end over smaller obstacles (which Ned Overend condemns as inefficient.) I'm without a doubt an XC rider, probably going back to racing, and tired of the weight and maintenance of full suspension.

Am I a softtail candidate? If I (hypothetically) coughed up for a Ti dreambike would it solve all my problems forever? Or would I just want another bike anyway in another five years?

[burgh punk]

If I (hypothetically) coughed up for a Ti dreambike would it solve all my problems forever? Or would I just want another bike anyway in another five years?

Walsh - may I refer you to stage 7 of your own list?

"You had a firm budget for your new ride, and came home with something three times as expensive. As ridiculous as it is, you are already thinking about your next bike. Constantly. "

http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3676

[eloach]

I tried a Rocky Mountain Element 70 months ago and it was amazing for $3K. You can't get them now until next years production run because they sold out. If you have more cash you can still get the "Team" version which weighs in at around 23 pounds. If you have less cash you can get the "50", but it has some LX on it.

I don't really believe any FS bike will keep you happy for more than 5 years. The technology seems to be changing too fast. So I think that even if you buy your dream bike you'll need to do it again in 5 years maximum. Then, if you add in racing, it may be a lot less than 5 years.

[fausto]

I don't get [26" wheel] softails these days (dos is an idea I can appreciate to some extent). Seems like 90% of the drawbacks of full suspension with at best 10% of the benefit. You get some travel - enough to bob but not enough to really smooth things out, or improve traction - IOW not enough to do anything useful, and a damper to maintain. So you don't have to service pivots... never seemed like that much work to me.

IMO you are a candidate for a hardtail, maybe with a thudbuster if you want to soften things out a bit. That option is also nice because it's easy to remove for a race if need be.

Like you apparently said, there is no such thing as a "forever" or even "long term" mtb.

[CRAIG2]

I don't get [26" wheel] softails these days (dos is an idea I can appreciate to some extent). Seems like 90% of the drawbacks of full suspension with at best 10% of the benefit. You get some travel - enough to bob but not enough to really smooth things out, or improve traction - IOW not enough to do anything useful, and a damper to maintain. So you don't have to service pivots... never seemed like that much work to me.

IMO you are a candidate for a hardtail, maybe with a thudbuster if you want to soften things out a bit. That option is also nice because it's easy to remove for a race if need be.

Like you apparently said, there is no such thing as a "forever" or even "long term" mtb.

Great points, particularly about the seatpost. That seems like a much more cost effective solution, combined with a decent hardtail. Either that, or go for a shorter travel XC dualie. It's not the most bling out there, but my NRS is still kickin' and takes most of the bite out of the local trails. I've learned to look past all of it's creaks, squeaks, and rattles. That's just personality! LOL

[jed]

I may have worn out my beloved GT dually. My rigid bike is slowly beating me to death. I'm currently kicking tires and idly soliciting opinions. I've certainly checked out MTBR and other sources.

My 3.5" travel full suspension is important to me for:
- balancing front suspension
- giving the rear rim a bit of a break when I really beef something
- making longer and more frequent rides more physically tolerable

I tend to run both my front and rear suspension VERY tight ( <10% of travel compressed at rest.) I'm guilty of riding it like a it's a hardtail, lifting the rear end over smaller obstacles (which Ned Overend condemns as inefficient.) I'm without a doubt an XC rider, probably going back to racing, and tired of the weight and maintenance of full suspension.

Am I a softtail candidate? If I (hypothetically) coughed up for a Ti dreambike would it solve all my problems forever? Or would I just want another bike anyway in another five years?

Sounds like you are a hardtail candidate to me. The cool thing about hardtails is that a really good one is not going to go out of style, although they keep getting lighter as materials keep getting better. Geometry has remained more or less constant for 15 years at least.

However, as a XC racer, I have come to the conclusion that full suspension is better pretty much everywhere. The only reason to ride a hardtail is to save weight; efficiency is not really an issue anymore with today's suspension designs and shock technology. The beating your legs get from a hardtail is significant; full suspension just takes less energy to ride fast. Maybe if the course is really smooth and has a ton of climbing, a hardtail is better, but for me that adds up to maybe one course a season. Or, if you don't have great descending skills and are an awesome climber, then a hardtail is better, maybe, because you'll get more help from the lighter weight on the way up than from the suspension on the way down. But for nearly all riding anywhere around here, a XC full suspension is tough to beat if you are only going to have one bike. Anything in the 3-4" travel range is perfect. Some bikes like the Cannondale Rush have more travel, are still pretty light, and the single pivot doesn't require much maintenance. Yeah, it's single pivot, but if you are worried about maintenance and design changes, single-pivot might be for you.

Softtails are pretty much the worst of all worlds, not enough travel to really help you, not the most efficient, and not all that light.

[xmynameisdan]

I have to disagree with all the soft-tail hating here. I bought a Castellano Fango and it solved all of my life's problems. At 4.4lbs it's not terribly heavy. I find that the 1.25" of travel smooths things out a bit and gives a great ride. Plus it climbs incredibly well.

I'll be taking it out to Baker's this weekend.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/176/455519977_f59d790825_b.jpg

[ODG]

My opinion is pretty similar to Jed's except that it's the exact opposite...skewing my favoritism toward the hartail. ;) I've never ridden a full suspension bike that has the snap and responsivness of a nice steel hardtail. I did recently purchase a Thudbuster ST to take the edge off at endurance events.

[eloach]

25 pounds and down with the ability to "lockout" both front and back and as much travel as you can find. I can't see how you can go wrong with that.

I think a todays dually is faster seated and a hard tail is faster standing. So it depends on what you like to do and to some extent the length of the rides/races. I use to think seated riding was the greatest, then I bought a rigid single speed, and now I find myself wanting to stand and power through a lot of stuff that I use to just spin. Powering through is faster, but may also tire you out more. I have not been able to tell yet. Powering through on a dually without dual lockout can be disappointing if your use to a hard tail.

It's also worth pointing out that all hard tails are not created equal. I think AL really HAMMERS YOU, steel hammers the course, and CF floats. In addition, the geometry of the bike seems to make some difference in how much punishment you get and where.

[pirate]

My 3.5" travel full suspension is important to me for:
- balancing front suspension
- giving the rear rim a bit of a break when I really beef something
- making longer and more frequent rides more physically tolerable


I'm a huge fan of the Thudbuster... I've got one on my old hardtail.
However, I don't think it will help you with the first 2 items listed above. Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not a physics guy by any means.

It definitely DOES make riding a hardtail more comfortable, though.

[walsh]

Good points all. Thanks.

Walsh - may I refer you to stage 7 of your own list?

Nothing stings quite like the truth. :D

[CRAIG2]

Softtails are what happens to you when you sit on the couch too much, drinking beer, and watching too much TV. :D

[TiRyder]

There will be an 18 and 20 inch Moots Mooto-X YBB for demo at the bakers dozen this weekend. We have a 19 inch rigormootis hardtail also. I will also have an 18 inch mooto-x with the slider dropouts set up as rohloff currently, but can beset up as Singlespeed, Rohloff, or standard gears. All these bikes are 29er's. They roll niiiice.

[Jim D]

Or, if you don't have great descending skills and are an awesome climber, then a hardtail is better, maybe, because you'll get more help from the lighter weight on the way up than from the suspension on the way down.

I've seen this view a number of times. Due respect, I don't get it. The idea expressed seems to be, "ride a bike that accentuates your strengths but does not cover your weaknesses".
I take the opposite approach. When I'm fit I can climb well, but I am always a wussy descender. On a hardtail, I pass people on the way up, then have to get out of their way going downhill. So I ride a dual suspension bike, where I'm still a decent climber but I get "help" on the downhill.
Plus, the rear suspension spares my weekend warrior agin' back.

[pepelkod]

I have a Dos Niner and it is just ok. I had a Titus Racer-x and prefered that to the Dos.

The Dos was cheaper ($1000 fork and frame vs $1800 frame only for Titus) and lighter (by about 4 lbs!) although that is partially due to the lighter wheelset.

Still the Titus was more fun. Great climber and even better descender. The only thing I notice is that the Dos seems to roll better through choppy terrain. Also the Dos does not seem to be slower based on some comparable laps between the two bikes.

I would like to try the 29er Titus and see what that is like.

-D

[markie]

There is a cheap Fango hre FWIW:

http://mmba.org/viewtopic.php?t=59008