Granny gear on my VP-Free

[crashmore]

Currently my VPFree is set up with a single ring up front and a chain guide. I really hate fracking pedaling this thing around and was thinking a Granny gear in some instances might be nice.

Any thought? What I could do about a chain guide setup if I go Granny? Is it even worth running the chain guide? I'm not doing half of what this bike is even capable of yet...

[jabberwocky]

You can do something like an e.13 DRS guide (which works with both a granny and middle ring). The only question is whether the vp-free is designed to take a front derailleur.

Check what size middle ring it has, too. A lot of freeride bikes come with 36t rings. Going to a 32t would help.

The other thing that would help is to stop trying to pedal it uphill. :)

[crashmore]

It's advertised as three ring compatible so yeah it'll take a Front Der. for sure.

You can do something like an e.13 DRS guide (which works with both a granny and middle ring). The only question is whether the vp-free is designed to take a front derailleur.

Check what size middle ring it has, too. A lot of freeride bikes come with 36t rings. Going to a 32t would help.

The other thing that would help is to stop trying to pedal it uphill. :)

[urbaindk]

Crashmore,

For general trail riding (non-lift assist) I highly recommend a granny. Think about it, even shuttling the shed you have to pedal a pretty good amount on most trails. And if for some reason you are stuck with out a shuttle you can crawl back up the road (i.e. Drop trails).

I ride with a 36-22 and an e.13 DRS. It shifts great. I found that I was always spinning out on the 32-22 so I bumped it up. I was much much happier when I put the 36 on. You just have to remember that when you down-shift in the front you have to up-shift 2 or 3 gears in the back, and vice versa. If you bike will take it go for it. I think you'll be much happier.

[fausto]

Any thought? What I could do about a chain guide setup if I go Granny? Is it even worth running the chain guide? I'm not doing half of what this bike is even capable of yet...


hey, not sure if you ever worked anything out wrt a dual ring chain guide, if you even decided you need a chain guide.

Anyway, I just got one of these (http://www.blackspire.com/chain-guides/stinger) on ebay, and bought the wrong one, I got an ISCG 05, needed a 'regular' ISCG (and I thought the 'S' stood for 'standard' :rolleyes: ). If you need such a thing and have ISCG 05 mounts, this is a pretty cheap option - yours for $15.

[pirate]

hey, not sure if you ever worked anything out wrt a dual ring chain guide, if you even decided you need a chain guide.

Anyway, I just got one of these (http://www.blackspire.com/chain-guides/stinger) on ebay, and bought the wrong one, I got an ISCG 05, needed a 'regular' ISCG (and I thought the 'S' stood for 'standard' :rolleyes: ). If you need such a thing and have ISCG 05 mounts, this is a pretty cheap option - yours for $15.

Hey Fausto... (or anyone else) Can you explain how the Stinger works? I've been looking into getting a chainguide, but have a hard time paying what they want for the DRS or anything similar.

[urbaindk]

Hey Fausto... (or anyone else) Can you explain how the Stinger works? I've been looking into getting a chainguide, but have a hard time paying what they want for the DRS or anything similar.

Same as any other guide.

It just puts tension on your chain from the bottom and keeps the chain wrapped around the front chain ring. 95% of the time, what happens when your chain pops off is that your derailleur moves due to a bump and that puts slack in the chain (on the bottom of course) and that whip effect pops the chain off the chain ring. If you snug the chain up to the chainring with a guide, it can flop all it wants but it isn't going to pop off.

Some other guides also put a roller on the top, which keeps the chain on up there too. They also have back plates that keep everything sandwiched together. So the there really is no way the chain is coming off, period.

I'm guessing that if around 95% of the time your chain comes off from the bottom that the extra $100 bucks you pay for a DRS isn't really worth the extra 5% of security for most applications. I wish I had seen this thing before I plunked down on a DRS.

Fausto, I don't see why that guide won't work for you. Just sandwich it between your BB and frame and ignore the ICGS tabs altogether. I don't think your really absolutely need them. Sure the guide might move around if your whack it on a rock. Some might argue that that's a good thing. Think about it, if the chainguide can move, that's less force transfered to your frame. Now would you rather bend a chainguide or a frame? ISCG tabs are nice but not 100% required.

[fausto]

Hey Fausto... (or anyone else) Can you explain how the Stinger works? I've been looking into getting a chainguide, but have a hard time paying what they want for the DRS or anything similar.

as I understand it, the point of the lower roller is to get more of your chain engaged on the ring. The stinger is only the lower roller, with the FD acting as the upper part (if you look at a SRS, the upper guide is basically a dummy derailleur).

I agree totally about the cost of those things, that's why I got the stinger. I can't figure out why a fairly simple machined plate and a few pieces of plastic cost >$100. Seems like that market would be ripe for some competition.

[fausto]

Fausto, I don't see why that guide won't work for you. Just sandwich it between your BB and frame and ignore the ICGS tabs altogether. I don't think your really absolutely need them. Sure the guide might move around if your whack it on a rock. Some might argue that that's a good thing. Think about it, if the chainguide can move, that's less force transfered to your frame. Now would you rather bend a chainguide or a frame? ISCG tabs are nice but not 100% required.


nope. The hole in the center is large enough that it clears the BB cups, there is nothing that would hold it in place in any direction, the ISCG tabs are the only way to mount it (I took it out of the package long enough to hold it up to the bike with the crank removed, and curse a little). I believe this model is meant to be compatible with an E-type FD.

Re the bending a guide vs a frame... there is no way in hell that plate is going to transfer enough shock to the frame to do anything to it. It's maybe 2mm thick al - I could snap it with my hands if I wanted to. Also the mounting holes are slotted - if you don't torque the heck out of it, the guide will move if you smack it. If you mounted it correctly it's pretty out of the way anyway.

[urbaindk]

nope. The hole in the center is large enough that it clears the BB cups...

.

Well that does present a problem now doesn't it...

Some guides are a little thicker I think so they might not bend. Occasionally proper set up involves twisting the guide so that the end of the slots are up against the screws so you could in principle transfer load to the frame. That totally depends on the geometry of the frame. The original standard was a little loose in regard to how the tabs were indexed relative to the chain stays. I think '05 standard was supposed to fix that. Problem is I don't think many manufacturers have adopted the newer standard yet even though it is now '07.

[pirate]

Thanks for the info... Looks like I'm going to be picking one of these up real soon. I don't know what kind of tabs I have, if any though. How can I tell? (sorry for the rookie questions)

[fausto]

Thanks for the info... Looks like I'm going to be picking one of these up real soon. I don't know what kind of tabs I have, if any though. How can I tell? (sorry for the rookie questions)

pricepoint (http://www.pricepoint.com/TECH_Page_ISCG_Etype.htm) has this info, probably easiest to measure. hole-hole dimensions.



if you want more details ISCG.org has dimesnional drawings of the tabs (for the old iscg), iscg05.com looks like it has drawings, but you have to agree to terms before they will show you anything... no thanks.


If iscg05 is what you end up needing, I have one as I said earlier - $15.

[jabberwocky]

nope. The hole in the center is large enough that it clears the BB cups, there is nothing that would hold it in place in any direction, the ISCG tabs are the only way to mount it (I took it out of the package long enough to hold it up to the bike with the crank removed, and curse a little).The e.13 I have on my DJ bike has ISCG mounts only, and then comes with an adapter that you sandwich between the bottom bracket and shell, and then screw the guide to (through the ISCG mounting holes). If you could get that mounting adapter (just an aluminum plate, really) you could probably use your guide.

[urbaindk]

Thanks for the info... Looks like I'm going to be picking one of these up real soon. I don't know what kind of tabs I have, if any though. How can I tell? (sorry for the rookie questions)


I'm sure you must have tabs. They are the three little little wings on your BB shell with screw holes in them. Email Transition and ask what kind. I'm guessing old ICGS though.

[fausto]

The e.13 I have on my DJ bike has ISCG mounts only, and then comes with an adapter that you sandwich between the bottom bracket and shell, and then screw the guide to (through the ISCG mounting holes). If you could get that mounting adapter (just an aluminum plate, really) you could probably use your guide.


thought about that, but those adapter plates cost more than just getting the right guide to start with.

If nobody wants it, I'll probably just machine my own plate, now that I have the mounting dimensions. I'd rather get one pre-made but...

[pirate]

I'm sure you must have tabs. They are the three little little wings on your BB shell with screw holes in them. Email Transition and ask what kind. I'm guessing old ICGS though.

Just found this on Transition's site:

# Frame Features: 6000 Series Heat Treated Aluminium
# Colors: Matte Black, Matte White, Matte Brown
# 1.5" headtube
# 30.0mm seattube
# 34.9 front derailleur and seat clamp
# Bottom bracket 68 x 122-128 Optimal or (68 x 118 will work but need to use 170mm cranks)
# ISCG tabs
# 135mm dropouts vertical
# Weight: 6.3 lbs

[crashmore]

Wow this has turned into a pretty useful thread :)

As soon as I get back from Fruita (Leave tomorrow) I'm gonna order the parts and convert this thing over to a double setup. I think being able to actually pedal this thing around comfortably will change the entire way I feel about this bike.

[pirate]

So, I got my Blackspire Stinger in the mail last night... Opened it up to check out the installation instructions, and this is what I found...

Step 1. Contact bike shop.

WHAAA?! That S is weak!

Luckily, it wasn't too difficult to figure out. It seems to fit okay, and I haven't ridden with it yet, but it seems to work ok too.

I'll post more details after the ride tonight.