Fight For Your Right to Bike!

[ridefree]

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/9511494077.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5159193)

[ridefree]

We'll prolly ride some of the local trails that day also.... so it'd be a fun day aside from the protest too.

[Cowboy]

Maybe we should invite skaters to ride our MTB trails...in protest of course...

It would seem something built as a skate park should be left to the little wheel folks...just because our wheeled vehicles can use it doesn't mean we should invade thier territory...

[ridefree]

Not everyone who rides on two wheels rides dirt. :)

[Cowboy]

It's one thing to post up something you want to gather support for---> something you think is right, to do it in three threads, in three section of the forum is TROLLING... :mad:

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Maybe we should invite skaters to ride our MTB trails...in protest of course...

It would seem something built as a skate park should be left to the little wheel folks...just because our wheeled vehicles can use it doesn't mean we should invade thier territory...

Yeah so those of us who ride bmx and/or street should continue to get kicked out of riding spots and have our trails bulldozed? Seems to me this is exactly what was happening to the skaters and for some reason they are getting a place to ride where they cant be hassled by cops or buisness owners , why cant we be let in as well? We are in the same boat as them and contribute just as much to the local culture/ economy so why should it be considered invading their territory if we just want a safe place to have fun?

[ridefree]

Yeah so those of us who ride bmx and/or street should continue to get kicked out of riding spots and have our trails bulldozed? Seems to me this is exactly what was happening to the skaters and for some reason they are getting a place to ride where they cant be hassled by cops or buisness owners , why cant we be let in as well? We are in the same boat as them and contribute just as much to the local culture/ economy so why should it be considered invading their territory if we just want a safe place to have fun?

W3RD! It's no fun looking over your shoulder for cops when you're just trying to ride your bike.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

W3RD! It's no fun looking over your shoulder for cops when you're just trying to ride your bike.

or worse
looking at your bike in the back of a crown vic :(

[jabberwocky]

moderator mode on

Dude, please don't post the same thing in 3 different forums. I merged everything into the freeride thread. Lets keep the forum neat, ok?

moderator mode off...

As one of the few ex-skateboarders (I skated for 12 years) who currently rides a lot of urban, I will say that comparing bikings legality to skateboarding is absolutely laughable. Its amazing how little trouble I have riding urban on a bike compared to how much trouble it was on a skateboard. Plus, I can ride a bike for transportation all I want and never be hassled.

Skateboards are generally banned in all public places, period. Even carrying a skateboard can get you attention from the cops. Parks are literally the only place skaters have to legally ride. Bikes have tons of options. I sympathize with you guys in this situation (hihoeskimo posted a brief synopsis a while back, and it sounds like the bikers got shafted in the creation of the park), but I can tell you right now that bikes and skateboards don't mix very well in a very crowded space like a skatepark, so it isn't totally out of line for a park oriented towards skateboards to ban bikes. I cannot tell you the amount of trouble I had with bikes back when I used to skate.

I wish you luck though. Olney is a regulated park, so you guys should push for some trial "bike only" times to start. See if they will set aside a few hours on the weekends to allow bikes in, and try to prove to them it will be popular.

[ridefree]

It's one thing to post up something you want to gather support for---> something you think is right, to do it in three threads, in three section of the forum is TROLLING... :mad:

My bad... just trying to spread the word to as many people as possible. I'm sure not everyone on this forum looks in on the freeride forum.

[Cowboy]

If you're worried about cops stopping you, you must be doing something that would bring those thoughts on....

I was under the impression our main goal here was to discuss things related to MTB...not invading other sports territory...Or state our intentions to bring negative energy to our sport...

If you want to ride a skate park, fine; I suppose, I could swim laps in the hot tub, maybe I should stage a protest for that. :rolleyes:

[jabberwocky]

I was under the impression our main goal here was to discuss things related to MTB...not invading other sports territory...Or state our intentions to bring negative energy to our sport...Urban riding is still a form of mountainbiking, and perfectly welcome here. There are quite a few members of the forum who ride urban (myself included).

I don't see anything negative about the original post. They disagree with the park policy, so they are organizing a protest to show the park management how they feel. Whats wrong with that? :confused:

[Cowboy]

The way I saw the original post in this thread, before it was consolodated, looked like 'trolling', I stand by my comments of not invading other sports' territory, and hope others will respect 'our' territory, in relation to 'our' sport.

Everyone is going to get their toes stepped on once in a while, and that's fine, but let's not go out of our way to step on toes...that's all I am/was sayin....

I would love to learn/be able to ride 'street' the way you and many other folks here can/do, but it still boils down to respecting other's space...and not overstepping our bounds and causing more harm than good...

[ridefree]

Sorry about the "Trolling" thing. Problem fixed :rolleyes:

I figured some people might enjoy coming down to Olney and helping out the local riding community down here.

I consider myself to be a mountainbiker. Although I don't race xc, I ride Shaeffer alot. Isn't that considered to be part of this "sport"? In the summer I'm riding DH prettymuch every weekend, and ride street or some of the dj's in the area as much as I can. Although these may not fall into the category of your discipline of riding, its still on two wheels, still "Off-Road" (As is implied in the name of the organization; Mid Atlantic Off-Road Enthusiasts) and there are plenty of people in this forum that participate in it that I felt there was reason enough for it to be an important issue to bring up.

I dont understand your negativity towards the progression of "your" sport. But I guess whatever floats your boat? Sorry to invade your territory!!!!!!!!!!

The purpose of me posting this up wasn't to create conflict. Just figured it would be a good way to reach out the riding community (No matter your wheelsize or what terrain those wheels roll over) to try and get some people out for a day of riding and to help support getting bikes into the Olney Skatepark.

[Cowboy]

Forums are a good way to get the word out, no question there...

Forums are a good way to hear what others think about what you think...

If the above wasn't true, there'd be no reason for a forum...

Those of us (so far) that have had some tin to say: have, that's all, nothing wrong wit dat either.

Green dots all around! :D

[ridefree]

Okii dokii...

[saxman]

There has been some talk about setting aside an area in the future Upper Rock Creek trail system for a "skills area", i.e. freeriding. This would seem to be an acceptable solution...skaters get their park, and the cyclists get theirs.

[Squirrel Girl]

Speaking as a complete outsider, as it were.... the Wakefield Skate Park allows bikes. Howz that goin'? Does it cause problems? Is it kewl? Can that be used as an example--good or bad???
:confused:

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Speaking as a complete outsider, as it were.... the Wakefield Skate Park allows bikes. Howz that goin'? Does it cause problems? Is it kewl? Can that be used as an example--good or bad???
:confused:

Wakefield is a perfect exampls as to why bikers should be allowed in to parks. Bikers are off the streets, they get along with skaters well, they hang out, the fees for the pad rentals and park entry passes help the economy (Not alot but every bit helps) and people in annandale (seems to be a similar kind of town to olney from my last visit) are much happyer with bmx riders and get along much better.

As for the whole protest thing as far as i know its just a picket line. No vandalizing breaking in or illegalness going on. From what i remember from government class thats one of the ways we as US citizens are allowed to change the laws of our country. We have tried speaking in public forums, there have been numerous letters written to the county, there have been several pages of petitions turned in by bike shops such as germantown, and there has still been no progression. The next logical step is to show our numbers and prove that its not just an insignificant group of kids and if we can organize a peacefull protest, we might just have the responsability to ride a skate park.

[JFritsch]

Man, I go away for the weekend and all HELLo breaks loose!

- MTBs in skate parks is real. I ride a Cannondale Prophet MX full suspension in skate parks and it's great. I have 20" bikes but it would be dangerous for me to ride them in a skate park since I'm so use to the big wheels.

- riding a bike in skate parks is more responsible than riding street illegally or building jumps ellegally, which is what MORE is all about!

- Riding a MTB in a skate park is more responsible than riding trails when they are wet!

- The issue of sharing with different users is really not much more than a a standard hight school click, one group against another. If skaters, bikes, blades and scooters all respect each other there would be no problem. Same way if bikes hikers and equestians repsect each other is is no problem.

- The only line I've seen that a skater or BMX bike can't do (that a FS MTB can) is riding up the stairs at the Arlington skate park :D

I'm off! Ray's opens at 4pm today :)

[jabberwocky]

Speaking as a complete outsider, as it were.... the Wakefield Skate Park allows bikes. Howz that goin'? Does it cause problems? Is it kewl? Can that be used as an example--good or bad???
:confused:I skate at Wakefield once in a while, but have never biked there. Wakefield is actually pretty well designed, and handles both bikes and boards simultaneously pretty well.

Its worth noting that I've had some trouble with bikes there, but its more because the bike guy was a jerk than the bike itself. Ive also never seen a mtb there, just bmx bikes.

The issue of sharing with different users is really not much more than a a standard hight school click, one group against another. If skaters, bikes, blades and scooters all respect each other there would be no problem. Same way if bikes hikers and equestians repsect each other is is no problem.Well... yes and no.

From the bikers point of view, it doesn't make a difference, but you really should try riding a skateboard before making that claim. Bikes can be a serious pain to skaters in some parks.

It does heavily depend on the layout of the park though. The big issue is that bikes can accelerate and change direction so much faster than a skateboard, so they are really tough to keep track of. You also get no audio cue (bikes are very quiet), which skaters tend to rely on. Now, the Wakefield park, for example, works fine because there are really only 3 places people tend to start from (atop the banks/quarters at either end, and the center spine area), and the park is very linear. So it is pretty easy to keep track of where bikes are and what they are doing.

Parks with a more chaotic layout (most indoor parks, for example) are much tougher because there are a dozen (or more) locations people start from, and the lines to obstacles cross over each other (rather than being all lined up). Skateboards are easy to keep track of even if you can't see them because they make a lot of noise, but that doesn't apply to bikes. Then it becomes a question of density- get enough bikes in there, and its almost impossible to know where they all are and collisions are almost inevitable.

I skated dozens and dozens of different parks over the decade+ I spent skateboarding, and even though bikes represented probably less than 1% of other park users in all that time, they represented over half of my collisions (and almost all my serious collisions). So its not entirely true to say that there are no usage issues between boards and bikes.

Now, proper park design can mitigate almost all the problems, as can reduced user density (by making the park bigger). Its a solvable problem. I have no idea what the Olney park layout is like, and I agree it was really crappy of the county to shut bikes out at the last minute after they helped with the legwork for the park (as I recall the story). I've seen some threads over on DCstreet where people advocated vandalizing the park though, which is pretty childish (and really wouldn't cast bikers in a good light).

Good luck with the protest. Just out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind the county not allowing bikes? Is it user conflict issues, worries about damage, or something else?

[ridefree]

Just out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind the county not allowing bikes? Is it user conflict issues, worries about damage, or something else?
its the issue of bmx pegs doing damages in the park, especially the pool copeing, but other than the pool copeing there would be no damages done to the park by pegs. Especailly b/c most riders use alloy pegs, which minimize damages even more, or even plastic pegs no damage at all.


- The only line I've seen that a skater or BMX bike can't do (that a FS MTB can) is riding up the stairs at the Arlington skate park :D

BUT we can hop up them!

[jabberwocky]

its the issue of bmx pegs doing damages in the park, especially the pool copeing, but other than the pool copeing there would be no damages done to the park by pegs. Especailly b/c most riders use alloy pegs, which minimize damages even more, or even plastic pegs no damage at all.Is the park wood or concrete? Pool coping is pretty tough, I don't see pegs doing much more damage than skateboard trucks, although they do tend to dig in on the top (which skateboard trucks don't do). Big problem with wood obstacles.

I know some parks just don't allow pegs. Have you guys offered that, or would that not be acceptable to the bmx guys?

[JFritsch]

The "offical reason" is that bike would damage the skate park to the point it would be unusable with in a year. Yes thats what they say.

Real Reasons:
The person who was the head of the Friends of the Olney Skate Park (which is no longer running to my knowledge) doesn't want bikes, although she stated bikes could use the park early on.

and..possibly,

The County might have to pay more insurance for bikes as this was an issue at the Gathersburg and Germantown skate parks.

Oh yea, the County clams that while bikes would destroy a concrete park (as Olney is) they would do no damage to a wooden park. Really, that is an offical statement by them.

I have heard bike people offer: no pegs, no bikes in the bowl (I don't like at one), even bikes having a higher fee. There reply? It's like talking to a concrete wall, nothing. Like bikes don't exist.

As for the sharing of a park, I still think the main thing is if everyone resepcts each other. One day at the Arlington skate park I saw this really good skater, best I've seen so far. He used almost every inch of the park. I then saw him come by a couple of young kids and give them a hard time for "standing" in the way. The spot they were at is a regular staging area and it is easy to go around people their. I don't care how good a skater he was, he had no right to bully the younger less experanced kids. I told the kids they were fine where they were and to not worry about it.

Same way tonight at Rays some idoits thought it was cool to backwards, on skinnies in the beginner section, while people were already on them!!

Anytime I hit a new place to ride I watch for a bit and figure out what's what. Ride easy, learn where people stage, what are the main lines and how to stay out of peoples way. It usually takes 3 trips to a new skate park until I feel I understand the unwriten rules of what's what. I've never come close to hitting anyone. But I do agree that seperate times is a gret solution although I know of friends in Olney were one bikes and ones skates so there is need for mixed times as well.

No matter if it's a bike or board, anyone who goes to a skate park the first time and just starts riding with out learning these unwritten rules is asking for trouble.


Oh yea, it's got pool copeing on the bowl, steal everywhere else.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Is the park wood or concrete? Pool coping is pretty tough, I don't see pegs doing much more damage than skateboard trucks, although they do tend to dig in on the top (which skateboard trucks don't do). Big problem with wood obstacles.
Pool copings pretty durable but its very expensive. Thats why park owners are so protective of it.


I know some parks just don't allow pegs. Have you guys offered that, or would that not be acceptable to the bmx guys?

I know alot of parks make you ride with peg guards which (correct me if im wrong) cover up the ends of the pegs keeping them from diging into the surface your riding on.

As for the bikes crashing into things issue you just gotta remember. We gots brakes :cool: And for those brakeless bmx guys they have nikes :rolleyes:

[ridefree]

(this is matt) I RIDE BREAKLESS! but i have no problem stopping, i stop faster than most. and my reaction timing is alot faster, from numerious close calls by cars.

[jabberwocky]

The "offical reason" is that bike would damage the skate park to the point it would be unusable with in a year. Yes thats what they say.
...
Oh yea, the County clams that while bikes would destroy a concrete park (as Olney is) they would do no damage to a wooden park. Really, that is an offical statement by them.Hahahaha. Thats rich. I used to skate an old concrete park from the 70s (magic skatepark, in PA) that had been closed for 15 years or so. It was this huge concrete snakerun in a field out in the middle of nowhere. It was 30 years old, and hadn't been maintained in 15 years and was still in great shape. Concrete is pretty durable.

I looked up some pictures of the Olney park last night, and I would say that concerns about damage are pretty stupid. Its a concrete park with steel coping. There isn't much you can do to damage it. They make bomb shelters out of concrete for a reason. :)

Anyone claiming that wood holds up to bikes better than concrete is either lying or so stupid that I don't understand how they survived long enough to learn to talk.

Real Reasons:
The person who was the head of the Friends of the Olney Skate Park (which is no longer running to my knowledge) doesn't want bikes, although she stated bikes could use the park early on.

and..possibly,

The County might have to pay more insurance for bikes as this was an issue at the Gathersburg and Germantown skate parks.
...
I have heard bike people offer: no pegs, no bikes in the bowl (I don't like at one), even bikes having a higher fee. There reply? It's like talking to a concrete wall, nothing. Like bikes don't exist. Yeah... I was gonna suggest that it sounds like someone in management just doesn't like bikes.

As for the sharing of a park, I still think the main thing is if everyone resepcts each other. One day at the Arlington skate park I saw this really good skater, best I've seen so far. He used almost every inch of the park. I then saw him come by a couple of young kids and give them a hard time for "standing" in the way. The spot they were at is a regular staging area and it is easy to go around people their. I don't care how good a skater he was, he had no right to bully the younger less experanced kids. I told the kids they were fine where they were and to not worry about it. I agree, some people are just dicks. I always make a point to say something to people who act like that. I almost got into a fistfight at the Blacksburg park because some guy was mouthing off to some little kid about "getting in his way" and I got in his face over it. I knew a lot of the young kids that skated at that park because I taught a skate camp for them over the summer, so I tried to look out for them.

As for the bikes crashing into things issue you just gotta remember. We gots brakes :cool: And for those brakeless bmx guys they have nikes :rolleyes:Most of my bike collisions haven't been intentional, or even that the bike guy was doing anything wrong. Its just that when you get enough people into a small space, going every which way, all concentrating on whatever trick they are trying, its really tough to keep track of whats going on. You get accustomed (as a skater) to using your ears to help know if someone is heading for you, and, well, bikes are pretty quiet.

Its not really an issue until you get a lot of people in a small space. My old rule of thumb was that a guy on a bike took about the same amount of effort to keep track of as 3 guys on skateboards. So when a park started feeling crowded with 20 skaters, it only took 6 bikes or so.

Looking at the layout for the Olney park, it looks pretty well designed (and big and open) so I just don't see an issue (unless there are a lot of people there, but that would be an issue no matter what). As a skater, I could share that park with lots of bikes without any problem.

Good luck guys. I'd come out, but I'm teaching a clinic that day. How crowded is the park on a nice weekend day? Is it getting pretty heavily used or what?

[ridefree]

As of now, whenever its open it's usually packed.

[drtnsnw]

If you're worried about cops stopping you, you must be doing something that would bring those thoughts on....

I was under the impression our main goal here was to discuss things related to MTB...not invading other sports territory...Or state our intentions to bring negative energy to our sport...

If you want to ride a skate park, fine; I suppose, I could swim laps in the hot tub, maybe I should stage a protest for that. :rolleyes:
Those would be short laps... :rolleyes:

[JFritsch]

Those would be short laps... :rolleyes:

LOL I didn't chatch the swimming coment the first time!

Actually if you try to swim at the Olney Indoor pool there are NO lap lanes between 4pm and 7pm so, yes! You needs a hot tube to swim in but my HOA will not allow me to have one!

By the way, when asking staff in Northern VA about bikes in skate parks, access for MTbs and access to lap lanes for swimming, the answer has always been the same. "They are park of our Comunity and we can not discriminate against any part of our comunity."

Montgomery County's answer? 'We can't provide for everyone." :mad:

[DaveG]

By the way, when asking staff in Northern VA about bikes in skate parks, access for MTbs and access to lap lanes for swimming, the answer has always been the same. "They are park of our Comunity and we can not discriminate against any part of our comunity."

Of course the next thing they will probably say is: "But that doesn't matter anyway because we're just going to bulldoze it all down and build some more townhouses".

:)

Dave

[JFritsch]

To night I testified for the Mid-County Recreation Advisory Board and mentioned the Skate Park and bike problem. Council woman floreen asked me if I thought that bikes in skate parks is what our kids should be doing. To which I repiled my 3 year old rides his bike in the Arlington Skate park so yes, :D Floreen is one for the few bike friendly council members.

With that said, this issues is gaining speed. If you are thinkinng of showing up do it! If you are to young to vote, get your parents to go as well and tell the elected offical and park staff that they want there kids to beable to ride their bikes in the Olney skate park!

The more people the better! This issues is part of the County's limited access for bikes whether it's skate parks, natural surface trails or paved trails. The more niose bike people make the better for all of us!

[DaveG]

To night I testified for the Mid-County Recreation Advisory Board and mentioned the Skate Park and bike problem. Council woman floreen asked me if I thought that bikes in skate parks is what our kids should be doing. To which I repiled my 3 year old rides his bike in the Arlington Skate park so yes, :D Floreen is one for the few bike friendly council members.

With that said, this issues is gaining speed. If you are thinkinng of showing up do it! If you are to young to vote, get your parents to go as well and tell the elected offical and park staff that they want there kids to beable to ride their bikes in the Olney skate park!

The more people the better! This issues is part of the County's limited access for bikes whether it's skate parks, natural surface trails or paved trails. The more niose bike people make the better for all of us!

Most of us just sit around and bitch about things; you actually go out there and do things about it. Just wanted to say thanks.

Where would we need to show up to up again? I'm going to read the start of the thread to see if I just missed it.

Edit: Nevermind. It's in the first picture. I honestly didn't even read the text in the picture the first time.

Dave

[JFritsch]

Thanks, I do it so my kids will have some where to ride and a I hate to see all forms of cycling so badly treated in Montgomery County.

This protest is actually orginized by one of the local high schoolers which is great. Really will point out to the County that by excluding bikes they are not providing for the memebrs of the comunity that the park was built for!

[JFritsch]

OK, BIG bullet dodged. Did you know that it is illegal to protest on Park in Montgomery County with out permison by the Director of Parks? :eek: Yep, just learned that today.

I made allot of noise and at this point everything looks fine for Saturday at this point, and a bonus..... they want to meet with us and discuss the issue. So the protest is already working! :D

So everyone show up!!!!

[ridefree]

See you all there tomorrow!

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Ill be there

[spasticcracka]

How did this go?

[redneckp3ngu1n]

It went well. We didnt have a ton of people there but we had enough bmx mtb and skaters on our side to get our message out. There were photographers out there who got pics of us and after the police realized that we werent gonna start a riot all the horses left. When we were done we went out and rode street for a bit.

[eloach]

What kind of skate park doesn't allow bikes? I think I have seen upwards of 30 skate parks and there are ALWAYS BMX dudes hookin it up and even a few 24 and 26 ers. Is this a new trend?

I have never heard skaters complain about bikes or the other way either.

[spasticcracka]

What kind of skate park doesn't allow bikes? I think I have seen upwards of 30 skate parks and there are ALWAYS BMX dudes hookin it up and even a few 24 and 26 ers. Is this a new trend?

I have never heard skaters complain about bikes or the other way either.

Have you been living in a closet? There are only 4 or 5 in the baltimore/washington area that allow bikes "legally". A lot of skateboarders don't like bikes because our lines are different and generally in the way.