Road Bike

[ride-n-fall]

Ok, I have convinced myself (and more importantly my wife) that I need a road bike. With all of this rain, I have spent too much time off of the bike. Although I commute by bike about 3 times per week on a fixie in the good weather (27 miles per day), and ride the trails at least once a wekend, I have been reading a lot about how much the road riding can help you get in riding shape. As a vertically-challenged-Amercian (ok, some might call me fat, but if I were 7 feet tall, I would be at my ideal body weight), I need all the help I can.

Basically, I want a road bike that will hold 225 lbs. and not cost more than $1000. So this may be asking a lot, but what the heck, it never hurts to ask. Does anyone have any suggestions for a halfway decent machine that will work?

Thanks.

[jmcgonigle]

I'm ahead of you by a few weeks, just did the same thing so that I have a ride for those weekends that I can't get on dirt.

I got a used Specialized Allez. The thing I was told (right or not) was to get Shimano 105 or better for the components. That and the right size was what I was looking for. I also looked for a brand/model that seemed to be popular and had good reviews. Got it for $700 on ebay.

[Brizn]

Yup.. i'm there, too. Considering and test riding. Seems like comfort and componentry are the big things. I'm up in the air about 105 vs. Ultrega as well. Apparently, the 105 componentry will fade in performance relatively quickly-- ie a season or two? The shifters are probably the most important component.. and you want them to be as precise-- and to be as lasting-- as possible. Quality shifters in our range would be around $300-350, maybe less, but still- a consideration.

[liltommy]

I'm lazy though.
I read a little bit in RBR and than dropped in at the LBS.
They had the Trek 1000 for $700 (I think), so I ordered it.
I'd give a review but so far I've got 30 miles on it.

Keep in mind that you'll need to keep it separted from your other bikes.
The moutain bikes like to pick on it and its skinny little tires. :D

[DaveG]

Yup.. i'm there, too. Considering and test riding. Seems like comfort and componentry are the big things. I'm up in the air about 105 vs. Ultrega as well. Apparently, the 105 componentry will fade in performance relatively quickly-- ie a season or two? The shifters are probably the most important component.. and you want them to be as precise-- and to be as lasting-- as possible. Quality shifters in our range would be around $300-350, maybe less, but still- a consideration.

I have a road bike with 105; It probably has 6-7K miles on it. When I replace the cables they shift just fine. I think 105 stuff will last MUCH longer than a season or two. For someone who isn't going to log a ton of miles it's more than adequate.

Dave

[crack monkey]

In that price range, you're mostly going to find bike with Tiagra drivetrains, and maybe a few 105 bits tossed in. It seems most of the full 105 bikes start just over $1000.

My wife's old Jamis was Tiagra and she never had a problem with it. My Cannondale is 105, and it's been fine for two years (although I don't do that many miles a year).

Spokes Etc had a few 06 road bikes in their warehouse - you might try giving them a call (their website still lists a few models, but doesn't say which sizes are left). My wife's Dolce Comp was several hundred off MSRP when we bought it a few weeks ago, bringing it below the $1000 point.

[trailrdr71]

I am also joining the road bike ranks this yr. The Bicycle magazine 2007 bike guide had a great review of the Trek 1000. Plus for only 700.00 into a road bike (you will need pedals) you can still buy plenty of quality mountain bike stuff throughout the season

[august]

you can get a trek 1500 for a little under 1000. especially right now with the trek sale thats going on. it has full 105 components.

[Dirt]

I'll just put in a comment or two about road bikes... Make sure you get the size right. Bike sizing is actually more important on a road bike than a mountain bike. Talk to your sales jock about getting sized properly. Some will do a basic fitting for you (taking body measurements and using them to recommend a bike size) for free if you purchase a bike from them. That will probably not be a full Fit Kit process, but it will get you close enough to the right size that you'll be able to buy the correct bicycle.

Some shops may even do a more in-depth sizing for you for a price -- part of which may be applied to the purchase of a bike. That might be overkill, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Because of the sizing issues, I recommend NOT buying your first road bike without riding it first. Trust me, you won't enjoy riding a road bike that does not fit you properly.

Pete

[kuru]

I've been looking at inexpensive road bikes too. I'm leaning toward the Giant OCR 2 at $900. I might go with the OCR 1 for $1,100.

BTW, I need to grow 5 inches taller to achieve my ideal weight too.

[crack monkey]

Bike sizing is actually more important on a road bike than a mountain bike.

I'll second this. On a road bike, more time is spent seated, so top tube and stem length are more important than on a mtn bike.

My wife's old Jamis didn't fit well - it was too long. She installed a shorter stem, but this compromised handling (made the steering twitchy). I was shocked that the shop would have sold it to her (this was prior to us meeting) and I won't be using that shop anymore.

[liltommy]

I'll just put in a comment or two about road bikes... Make sure you get the size right. Bike sizing is actually more important on a road bike than a mountain bike. Talk to your sales jock about getting sized properly. Some will do a basic fitting for you (taking body measurements and using them to recommend a bike size) for free if you purchase a bike from them. That will probably not be a full Fit Kit process, but it will get you close enough to the right size that you'll be able to buy the correct bicycle.

Some shops may even do a more in-depth sizing for you for a price -- part of which may be applied to the purchase of a bike. That might be overkill, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Because of the sizing issues, I recommend NOT buying your first road bike without riding it first. Trust me, you won't enjoy riding a road bike that does not fit you properly.

Pete

OK, its too late for me but....

What are we supposed to look for in a road bike that fits correctly.
I don't know about everyone else but I felt completely odd and outta place on the road bike for the first 30 minutes. I almost bounced into a car in the parking lot at the LBS trying to grab for the brakes where I'm used to them being on my MTB.

Tommy

[mscard]

Like others have said fit and comfort on the bike seem way more important on a road bike than on an mtb. Also having a good saddle is even more key.

My personal theory is that it's because you spend so much more time in the saddle spinning with your upper body relatively static. When you're riding trails you in and out of the saddle & weighting the bike in different ways all the time to maneuver. On the road you can go hours without needing to get out of the saddle or shifter your weight very much.

I don't think there is a magic forumula for what constitutes a proper fit (for mtbs or road bikes). Go to a good shop and make a point of riding the bike for more than 10 minutes around the parking lot (if possible). I also think there are a few demo days coming up in the near future where you can probably give them a thorough thrashing. Also, coming from mountain biking your ideal set up may be a bit different than a hard core roadie. I know for the last couple of years I've been riding with my bars a bit higher than most, but as I've gotten more comfortable on a dedicated road bike (I started by buying a cross bike to serve dual purposes) I've been progressively lowering my bars. All that said, if you get in to riding on the road you'll probably tinker with your set up anyway.

As for components, the Tiagra to 105 jump seems to be the biggest in the Shimano line. I was not impressed with the 9spd 105 I was using on my cross (now commuter) bike, but the performance of the new 10spd 105 is supposed to be much closer to Ultegra. I absolutely love my Ultegra 10spd. It is by far the smoothest, crispest shifting I've used on any bike. I'm sure Dura Ace is better and Campy may be even smoother, but if Shimano could replicate that feel and conistency of Ultegra 10 spd in its mtb line I might have to consider going back to Shimano shifters.

[eloach]

Shop about and look for a leftover '06. You might even find an ultegra/105 combo for that price in an '06. You can surely find a 105 bike for that and the new ('07) 105 is really nice.

One word of warning though -
If you are heavy you might want to worry more about the wheelset and less about the component spec. than if you were light. A lot of road wheelsets seem to be made for light fellows. Specifically, stay away from the Shimano 505 front wheel if you are heavy. Hopefully, others will chime in here with some opinions on the 505 and on the wheelset vs the components for a heavy rider.

[Dirt]

There are some formulae for getting the fit right. They involve taking measuremnts of your torso, inseam, shoulders and arms and working with the fit kit documentation to get the right size.

The measurements needed for a basic fit take about 10 or 15 minutes to do. It is another 10 or 15 minutes to look it all up in the book or type it into the computer to come up with the sizing.

The full sizing (what you would do for someone who wanted to buy a $10,000 road bike (or custom road frame) without being able to ride it ahead of time) takes 2-3 hours (sometimes more).

Back when I was working in shops, the basic fit cost $70, half of which could be applied to the price of a bike under $1000, all of which applied toward the cost of a bike over $1000. The full fit cost $300, all of which was applied to the cost of a pro-build bike. The owner would wheel and deal with the customer if they were just buying a frame. That cost also included making sure that the bike they purchased was set up according to the findings of the fitting.

Shops usually charge a flat fee for this service because it involves covering not only their labor charges, but also the cost of the fit kit system and the time for training employees to use it properly. The fit kit course that I took was a 5-day class and it included use of not only the fit kit, but the RAD (used for properly placing cleats on the bottom of your shoes -- more important for road bikes/shoes than mountain) and use of the Serotta Fit Bike (an infinitely adjustable bike that looks kind of like a trainer and allows you to simulate any bicycle configuration/size). I had to study at night and each day started with a test on the previous day's lessons and ended with a quiz on that day's lessons. It was more comprehensive and challenging than many tech classes I've taken since. I don't know if the training and certification is done that way anymore, but back in the day, that was a big deal for shop jocks. I got many jobs primarily because I was certified with this program and had references that showed that I knew my stuff.

Do many shops in this area go to this level of detail with their road bike sales? Probably not. I know Spokes used to. I've seen very good bike fittings taking place at both The Bike Lane and City Bikes. I've also been to a few shops that sent people out the door after purchasing a $2000 road bike based solely upon the answer to the question "How did that feel?" after the customer returned from a 10 minute test ride.

Obviously I take this crap pretty seriously. It used to be my bread and butter. It is also one of the reasons why I got out of the bicycle business (above and beyond the monumental brain-fart blunders that I made with my career). Those, however, are other stories for other days.

It is next to impossible to do a serious bike fitting over the internet. Chris Curry at Speedgoat has come up with a system that works amazingly well. He'll be the first to tell you that it is VERY time consuming on his part. He spends a significant amount of time every day working with the measurements and information that he collects from his fit system. His track record and experience say a lot for the success of his system.

Greg LeMond's book probably has the best DIY fitting information for road riding that I've seen. I'm not even sure that it is still in print. Even with that, it is important to have someone with some knowledge of the process to take the measurements.

I know all of that is probably overkill for someone who is a casual roadie.

That's enough for this post. I'll post my thumbnail DIY that will generally give you a ballpark sizing estimate in a few minutes.

Sorry to type such a huge post. HOpe that is of some help.

Pete

[ride-n-fall]

Sorry to type such a huge post. HOpe that is of some help.

Pete

Don't apologize, I really do appreciate the advice -- its good stuff! When I pull the trigger, I will definitely go to get fit for the bike, as I have no idea what size road bike I would ride (my fixie is a bit on the small side for me but I like it). I know the Bike Lane does fittings, so I may have to go talk to Todd.

Thanks.

[Dirt]

When I started working in shops in the mid 1970s, there was a basic way to tell if the fit was done correctly. You start with a few assumptions.

1) The bike has the handlebar and stem that was originally specified from the factory for the size of bike being fit.

2) No unusual measures have been taken to raise or lower the handlebars significantly.

3) The saddle height is set appropriately. (you should have a little bend in your knee at the bottom of your pedal stroke. LeMond uses the pedal spindle to top of saddle measurement of 93% of your true inseam (I'm not talking your pants inseam. true inseam is measured from the location of your pelvic bones to the ground while you're wearing your cycling shoes) as a starting point).

4) Your riding position is one that the bike is inteded for. For a road bike, that means you've got your hands on the brake hoods or drops, if you're using the tops of the bars, you've got a little more bend in your elbows.

Ride the bike around a little. Look at the front hub. If the handlebars block your view of the front hub, then you're close to the correct fit for that bike. If any of the 4 assumptions listed above are not true, this won't even give you ballpark figure for sizing. If you're a more aggressive road rider, the handlebars might be a hair in front of the front hub.

Keep in mind that this is a very crude measurement. I would NOT recommend using this as a method for purchasing a road bike. For curiousity sake, I had people that I had done professional fittings on try this measurement and more often than not it rang true.

Again, somehow I manage to even make the simple ballpark estimate of bike sizing complicated. At least you have a feel for what it takes to insure a proper fit on a road bike.

Pete

[Jim D]

Spokes in Alexandria still has a Serotta fit kit machine.
Whatever LBL you go to, mention that you're a MORE member that might summarize your shopping experience on-line :-)

Another good place to educate yourself:
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit/

Good luck!

[Dirt]

Spokes in Alexandria still has a Serotta fit kit machine.


They also have a reputation of doing a good job with fitting. I haven't kept up with a lot of the local shops and the quality of their work, but Spokes has had a great rep for taking care of roadies (and mtb folks too) for years.

Pete

[joep]

Getting a fit kit is a must, but it's only the start. After you get fairly acquainted with your bike, take it out for a long ride (3-4+ hrs). What feels good after 1 hr may not feel so good after 3. Assuming you got the correct size frame, you should be able to dial in the right stem, bar, saddle positon to make that 4 hour ride comfy. Don't saw off that steerer tube until you do this! :eek:

I just got my road bike last Tuesday and I've ridden it every day since then for short 1 hour-ish rides. Feels great so far, but the real test will come this weekend.

[CRAIG2]

Yup.. i'm there, too. Considering and test riding. Seems like comfort and componentry are the big things. I'm up in the air about 105 vs. Ultrega as well. Apparently, the 105 componentry will fade in performance relatively quickly-- ie a season or two? The shifters are probably the most important component.. and you want them to be as precise-- and to be as lasting-- as possible. Quality shifters in our range would be around $300-350, maybe less, but still- a consideration.


Funny thing about that - my cheap-o RSX shifters that came on my bike just started failing about a year or so ago - oh, yeah, they came on my 1996 Cannondale. So, that's what, like an 8 or 9 year useful life?

[Dirt]

Getting a fit kit is a must, but it's only the start. After you get fairly acquainted with your bike, take it out for a long ride (3-4+ hrs). What feels good after 1 hr may not feel so good after 3. Assuming you got the correct size frame, you should be able to dial in the right stem, bar, saddle positon to make that 4 hour ride comfy. Don't saw off that steerer tube until you do this! :eek:

I just got my road bike last Tuesday and I've ridden it every day since then for short 1 hour-ish rides. Feels great so far, but the real test will come this weekend.

Very good points, Joe. It is not only getting your bike fit to you, but also getting your body used to the positioning.

Some have commented correctly that road riding has fewer positions in which you ride. Tommy also said correctly that if you're used to a mountain bike, the road riding position feels weird.

It takes time for you to become one with your road bike and get it and your positioning adjusted correctly.

That came home to me this weekend after a medium length road ride. I'd set up my "new" bike to match the positioning that has evolved over the 30 years of road riding. I hadn't been on my road bike in 5 or 6 months and it felt REALLY weird for the first hour.

Okay, I'm shutting up now. I've babbled too much on this thread.

Pete

[Brizn]

I have a road bike with 105; It probably has 6-7K miles on it. When I replace the cables they shift just fine. I think 105 stuff will last MUCH longer than a season or two. For someone who isn't going to log a ton of miles it's more than adequate.

Dave

Funny thing about that - my cheap-o RSX shifters that came on my bike just started failing about a year or so ago - oh, yeah, they came on my 1996 Cannondale. So, that's what, like an 8 or 9 year useful life?Apparently, the 105 componentry will fade in performance relatively quickly-- ie a season or two?

"fade in performance" being the key phrase. i do admit, though, that I'm just kinda repeating what I've been learning-- you folks have the practical knowledge about it. I was talking to a guy who's primarily a road rider.. so maybe he was being a little particular. This is good input tho.. and it has me leaning back towards 105 over Ultrega should I drop a dime myself.

[eloach]

After you get your bike, remember that the breaks will not stop you like disk breaks. It seem obvious, but I have found myself sailing past my target point more than once. A good rim helps, but there's nothing like disk breaks!

[BikerMiker]

Ok, y'all are forgetting that your first road bike (like your first MTB) will probably be wrong. By that I mean, you'll probably end up buying something that is too small in the top tube. There's a good chance that you'll end up on a larger size bike after some serious time on it. Keep that in mind. You have to buy the bike that fits you now but as you do more and more road miles, your body will most likely want to stretch out more and more.

I just got an 06 closeout list emailed to me from Jamis. Some SMOKING stuff in there. Let me know if y'all want specifics.

By the way, I can't ride the new 10spd shimano-style road hoods (105, Ultegra, DA) as the profile is too narrow in my hands. Drives me nuts. The SRAM stuff and Campagnolo are MUCH more comfortable to me and worth the extra dough, for sure.

As much as fit is important, ergonomics are also important. If you are comfortable on the bike, you'll ride it more. Put yourself in the hands of a professional and make sure you can return the bike for a different size after a few weeks of gentle use.

mike

[Cowboy]

Put yourself in the hands of a professional

...If really bad/cheesy '80 music starts playing, RUN AWAY!!! :eek:


:D :D :D

[blacknell]

Just a couple of thoughts:

1) My 105 group has held up very well to +10k miles of use. And a high-impact crash. No complaints.

2) Take a look at the SRAM options. I've never used it myself (beyond cassettes), but I've heard a lot of good things from guys that take their equipment very seriously. I get the impression that SRAM's been sinking a lot of money into wedging itself into real competition with Shimano and Campy, and it's paying off.

[CRAIG2]

I haven't looked really at road components in a lonnnng time. What I have just works, and I haven't needed to 'upgrade'. I primarily have a mix of Shimano parts - old RSX levers and brake calipers (still kickin'!), 105 cranks, Ultegra derailleurs and brake shoes, yadda yadda. I think that anything which is properly adjusted will work almost as well for the enthusiast, whether it's 105 or Ultegra. Ultegra, IMHO, is just more bling. Probably better for the sport racer, moreso than the enthusiast. But, I could be way off base, these days.

I just don't always think that a bigger price tag means much more than a few grams, or a fancier label. I will say, though, when I have needed to purchase a component, and I did have a little extra money, I did buy up. Did I really notice an extraordinary difference in performance? Nahh, not really.

[kuru]

I just got an 06 closeout list emailed to me from Jamis. Some SMOKING stuff in there. Let me know if y'all want specifics.


OK, I'll bite. Can you make a Jamis Quest or Eclipse worth the long drive for me?

[Brizn]

Jamis Quest or Eclipse from what i hear, those are fun bikes.


:D

[walsh]

As much as fit is important, ergonomics are also important. If you are comfortable on the bike, you'll ride it more. Put yourself in the hands of a professional and make sure you can return the bike for a different size after a few weeks of gentle use.


Quick question on ergonomics. I've been behind the times for a while. I was in a LBS recently and noticed high-end road bikes being deliverd with very large-diameter bars+tape. They looked comfy. was I looking at:

1) wide-diameter bars?
2) special, thicker tape?
3) same old bar tape, double-wrapped?

Just curious.

[kuru]

from what i hear, those are fun bikes.


:D

This is a red letter day because it is (it's ;) ) the first time I will bestow green dots upon someone.

[kuru]

I just got back from a trip to City Bikes in Chevy Chase. They have a killer deal on a Jamis Ventura Comp (55 cm I think) for those still looking for a sub-1000 road bike. I almost bought it myself but I decided a racer wasn't really what I needed so bought a touring bike. The bad part is that while I was driving home and should have been excited and happy about my new bike, my mind kept going back to the feather light carbon Specialized mtb I saw. I might have to quietly start saving money :cool:

[BikerMiker]

I just saw this. Sorry I missed you. I was there this morning briefly with the kids. Thanks for the business.

The Eclipse is a nice bike but as soon as you stand on it, it melts underneath you, in a bad way. If you want supreme comfort AT THE EXPENSE of performance, it's ok. The Quest is your classic steel road bike. Nice ride and less $$.

Jamis is bringing a 953 (yes, 9) road frame to market next year. Rumor has it that it's (almost) Ti light and Ti stiff. Estimated price is around $2500 frame/fork. We'll see. I know there's a prototype underneath Steve at Jamis that he LOVES!

Gel under bar tape is RAD! Comfy, for sure. Also, the flat-top carbon and aluminum bars are killer. I really like 'em. Double-wrap is usually more expensive and you REALLY have to stretch that top layer to get it to make it as far as it needs to go. I like the gel stuff better for fit, feel and finish.

mike