Upgraditis

[navymtbr]

I ride a 05 Fuel 70 and my riding style is appropriate to the bike. No big drops and usually not very fast, I don't race - just like to ride! I am thinking of upgrading the drive train from 8-9 spd as a Happy Birthday to Me! My reason is two fold: 1) upgrading from Shimano LX to SRAM X-9 and Avid Speed Dial 7 brake levers and, 2) the over abundant 9 spd parts availability if I need replacements. I keep the drive train pretty clean and have no real issues except the occasional adjustments due to cable stretch. Since I hardly use all the gearing on the 8 speed, will I gain any real advantage by switching to a 9 spd drive train? Is the parts availability so overwhelming as to dictate a switch? I could just upgrade the shifters and levers in the 8 spd configuration. Another option would be to ride it for another year or 2 and then just upgrade the whole bike. I really like the Fuel and it is my 1st squishy. Thanks for any input!

[jed]

If you are happy with it, why bother upgrading? 8-speed cassettes and chains are still available. Good shifters are getting harder to find, though. Sure, you will get better performance from higher end stuff, but you can probably pick up 8-speed Xtr stuff on ebay for a reasonable price. Also, the rear derailleur doiesn't know how many cogs the cassette has, so you could upgrade your rear derailleur as long at it's Shimano. The 8-speed chain will work fine.

[Brizn]

I'd say 8spd stuff is still pretty widely available, especially if you're into e-commerce.

Depending on the cassette you choose, a 9spd may not offer much more in the way of applicable gearing for your purposes. But that's for you to decide. A 9spd cassette might have an extra gear in the low range if you're into climbing..or an extra cog in the high end if you ride taller faster gears. But is that one extra cog worth $80-100 in quality parts?-- and more if you have to put new chainrings on.

I'd cast a vote for runnin' it if it works, as Jed says.. and maybe start deferring funds to a new bike purchase or some such. That'd be a great happy birfday to you! Sometimes upgraditis takes on a life of its own, without reason. I know first hand :D

[navymtbr]

Thanks for the grounding. Sometimes the allure of something new blinds us and we forget all common sense.

FYI - Y'all backed up the S/O's argument! Sounds as if we stay the course until it is time for a new ride.

Thanks Again

[gsmolin]

another reasonable option is to purchase high quality replacement parts for your slightly older bike w/ "lesser" components, and then in a year or two just buy a different frame instead of plunking down a ton of clams for a whole new bike. your S/O may be more inclined to let you spend a big one here or there than dropping the "honey, i need $2000 for a new bike" in 2 years....

[soreback]

i still have a 1994 bike with 8 speed parts on it (higher end, all XT and XTR) and to be honest i think it is better performing than the nine speed stuff i have on my other newer bikes. i have had no problem getting 8 speed stuff on the net. ive actually never had a problem getting 7 speed stuff for my wife's bike for that matter.

[saxman]

Like you, I have an '05 Trek Fuel 70, and also like you, I've had severe upgraditis with the bike.

Frankly, I think you'd be better off replacing that boat anchor of a shock of front, the Axel Comp, with something a bit lighter. I purchased a Manitou Skareb from another MORE member (thanks, Lee!) and it brought the bike to life. I also picked up a lighter wheelset to replace the stock ones and some Panaracer Fire XC Pros to replace the stock Bontragers. I put on Shimano M540s to replace the stock platforms.

Continuing my upgraditis, over the winter, I replaced the derailleurs, front and rear with Shimano XT and put a lighter SRAM cassette on the back. I stuck with the eight speed drivetrain. I've heard from other MORE members that the 8 speed is easier to keep in adjustment due to the wider chain.

My next steps are to go to tubeless tires and rims on the bike, and the next upgrade after that is to replace the virtually useless Rock Shox Bar rear shock.

When you add it all up, I would have been better off buying a Fuel EX9 than starting with the lowly 70 and upgrading it. However, it's been a lot of fun hot-rodding the bike. Here is a picture of it last summer with the fork and wheel modifications:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/60/195525002_1f26ad12c6.jpg

[navymtbr]

I have been looking at a fork. Not to sound like I have it bad but I am always looking for a deal. Performance has the Skareb Comp on sale for $199 and the Skareb Comp with handle bar lockout for $249. Reviews are mixed but I am sure it would be better than the Axel! I really would like a Reba and since I have a recreational occupation (soccer referee) to supplement my "Fun Fund", the shock upgrade may take a season or 2-3 tournaments to save up the cash depending on my selection. I was more concerned about the whole 8 spd vs 9 spd which I am now convinced to stay 8 spd. Have you thought about which rear shock? My upgrades are WTB Laser Ti saddle, Shimano 540's, Race Face Good N Evil grips, and a set of Hutchinson Alligator tires. Also use Ritchey Excavaders which are pretty quick on hard pack.
Steve

[middle-ring]

Hey, when the mud and weather keeps you from the trails - YOU MUST UPGRADE!!!! If I'm not upgrade'n then I'm not live'n - OR - I'm out riding. Today...shopping ebay looking at Crossmax's for the sprinter bike....sure, I'd rather be riding...

[allencb]

I have been looking at a fork. Not to sound like I have it bad but I am always looking for a deal.

http://www.bikesmart.com/index.cfm?menu=browse&cid=FS&ssid=PAOHADDANIIEBACO&ap=199.99&StartRow=1

I bought one this summer when they hit $150. Seems to be a good fork for this 190lb rider...

Chris

[saxman]

I have been looking at a fork. Not to sound like I have it bad but I am always looking for a deal. Performance has the Skareb Comp on sale for $199 and the Skareb Comp with handle bar lockout for $249. Reviews are mixed but I am sure it would be better than the Axel!....Have you thought about which rear shock?

I have been nothing but thrilled with my Skareb. I have the small (15.5) frame, so reaching down and turning the lockout is no big deal to me, definitely not worth the extra $50 in my case. The Skareb is nearly three pounds lighter than the Axel, you will feel an immediate difference. For the price, it's a good deal.

On the rear, I've been mulling over the Rock Shox MC2, which is now the standard equipment on the EX level Fuels, or the Cane Creek. I've heard nothing but amazing praise for the Cane Creek rear shocks, except that they are a bit pricey. I'll probably go over to my LBS and compare prices. If the Cane Creek isn't totally off the wall more expensive than the MC2, I'll go that way. Otherwise, I'll take the MC2...it has to be better than the Bar.

The nicest thing about the Fuel is how readily it accepts just about any upgrade you can come up with. It is a very versatile frame, and riding-wise, it is a wonderfully steady platform. I can ride some bad lines that would have wadded me up on my hardtail and it comes through with the rubber side still on the bottom.

[Brizn]

I've heard nothing but amazing praise for the Cane Creek rear shocks, except that they are a bit pricey. I thought to the contrary. I got the Cloud 9 for just over 200 beans. Great shock. Great company.

[saxman]

I thought to the contrary. I got the Cloud 9 for just over 200 beans. Great shock. Great company.

No kidding? Where? I saw list prices that were almost twice that. Time to whip out the Visa and UPGRADE!!!! :D

[Brizn]

No kidding? Where? I saw list prices that were almost twice that. Time to whip out the Visa and UPGRADE!!!! :Dlol.. I got mine from Alfred E Bike. The reasonable pricing (of the component and thru the store) was one of the appeals. Shipped fast and only took a couple days to get here.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=list&Category=697&brand=61&type=T

[DaveG]

I have been nothing but thrilled with my Skareb. I have the small (15.5) frame, so reaching down and turning the lockout is no big deal to me, definitely not worth the extra $50 in my case. The Skareb is nearly three pounds lighter than the Axel, you will feel an immediate difference. For the price, it's a good deal.

On the rear, I've been mulling over the Rock Shox MC2, which is now the standard equipment on the EX level Fuels, or the Cane Creek. I've heard nothing but amazing praise for the Cane Creek rear shocks, except that they are a bit pricey. I'll probably go over to my LBS and compare prices. If the Cane Creek isn't totally off the wall more expensive than the MC2, I'll go that way. Otherwise, I'll take the MC2...it has to be better than the Bar.

The nicest thing about the Fuel is how readily it accepts just about any upgrade you can come up with. It is a very versatile frame, and riding-wise, it is a wonderfully steady platform. I can ride some bad lines that would have wadded me up on my hardtail and it comes through with the rubber side still on the bottom.

I had the cloud 9, and I really wasn't impressed with it. They're simple, but I don't think their air shocks have really kept up with the times. Almost every other rear shock I've ridden has been better. I understand the CCDB (coil shock) is absolutely amazing though.

Dave

[Brizn]

I had the cloud 9, and I really wasn't impressed with it. They're simple, but I don't think their air shocks have really kept up with the times. Almost every other rear shock I've ridden has been better. I understand the CCDB (coil shock) is absolutely amazing though.

Daveyea i think that's a fair statement.. and makes sense that i like them as i tend to like simpler stuff @ a good quality to price ratio for my budget.. so Yea, Sax- consider our reviews.

[saxman]

Well, I guess I'll be able to add a "Rock Shox Bar" to my miscellaneous items for sale. Thanks for the tip! I ordered the Cloud 9 tonight.

[CRAIG2]

I have been nothing but thrilled with my Skareb. I have the small (15.5) frame, so reaching down and turning the lockout is no big deal to me, definitely not worth the extra $50 in my case. The Skareb is nearly three pounds lighter than the Axel, you will feel an immediate difference. For the price, it's a good deal.



The Skareb Comp came OEM on my Giant NRS2. Overall, not a bad fork. Not the best out there that money can buy, but light weight for the price point, and it's been a problem-free, consistent fork. Finally got it serviced / overhauled last year, and what a difference. Just like new again. I had been riding it for well over 2 years before the overhaul. Still, to this day, no real complaints, other than it's not exactly plush, but that could be due to set up, oil weight, etc. It does the job, it's been reliable, it's been simple. Can't complain too much.

[saxman]

I had the cloud 9, and I really wasn't impressed with it. They're simple, but I don't think their air shocks have really kept up with the times. Almost every other rear shock I've ridden has been better. I understand the CCDB (coil shock) is absolutely amazing though.

Dave

Yes, but it's got to work better than the Rock Shox Bar that is on the bike right now. I've never been able to get the full travel out of the rear shock, even at the minimum pressure of 60 psi. This particular Bar is proprietary to the Fuel 70 and doesn't even have any adjusting ability, other than air pressure, that even the Bar sold as aftermarket one do.

[DaveG]

Yes, but it's got to work better than the Rock Shox Bar that is on the bike right now. I've never been able to get the full travel out of the rear shock, even at the minimum pressure of 60 psi. This particular Bar is proprietary to the Fuel 70 and doesn't even have any adjusting ability, other than air pressure, that even the Bar sold as aftermarket one do.


I wouldn't replace a shock that sucks with a shock that just _mostly_ sucks. Just my opinion.


I actually gave it to a friend of mine. I can check to see if he's using it. If not, I can let you try it to see if you like it. I'm pretty sure the Fuel is the same eye to eye and stroke length. (6.5x1.5)

Dave

[jed]

I ran a Cloud 9 on a Fuel 100 for a season. It was great for that frame. It made it ride like a whole new bike compared to the Rock Shox SID shock that came stock. Cane Creek claims they valve the shocks for the frame; I was able to get full travel out of mine. And the Fuel rear end is efficient, so you don't need much in the way of damping or platform or any of that. Small bump compliance is the biggest issue, in my experience (3 seasons of racing on a Fuel 100).

Out of 4 Fox Float rear shocks I have owned, I had to send 2 of them back for warranty issues; one went back twice for the same problem. They ride great when they work... The Cloud 9 works well on the Fuel and is user-serviceable. That was a big selling point to me.

[DaveG]

I ran a Cloud 9 on a Fuel 100 for a season. It was great for that frame. It made it ride like a whole new bike compared to the Rock Shox SID shock that came stock. Cane Creek claims they valve the shocks for the frame; I was able to get full travel out of mine. And the Fuel rear end is efficient, so you don't need much in the way of damping or platform or any of that. Small bump compliance is the biggest issue, in my experience (3 seasons of racing on a Fuel 100).


The Fuel rear is very "sticky". I.e. doesn't move super freely. When I had mine it took quite a bit of effort to move the rear triangle with the shock removed. I had the Cloud 9 on a Turner, and the rear end was a _lot_ smoother moving. My main beef with the c9 was the inability to tune out the bob w/o having the pressure too high. It also seemed to blow through it's travel. It was a very linear shock. Of course, all suspensions are different and it might very well be a good shock on a Fuel.

FWIW, I got it from a friend who had it (and hated it) on his Truth.

Dave

[saxman]

The Cloud 9 came in today. I haven't installed it yet, but I can tell this is going to be a dramatic improvement over the Bar. I mean this thing has four different ways to adjust it...the Bar only has one. It's lighter than the Bar, too, to help save a bit of weight.

The Bar is headed out to a buddy of mine in Phoenix. He is a more casual rider. He owns an Iron Horse squishy with a generic coil spring rear shock. For him, the Bar is going to be a major upgrade :p

[saxman]

Okay, so I'm looking at the Cloud 9 and notice that the eye holes are larger than the one on the Bar. The Bar has what appears to be 1/4" thick washers on each side to narrow the eye hole. I can't tell, though, if they are part of the shock, and I don't want to force it and break it and leave me with no shock at all. Do I need to call the Cane Creek folks to get some hardware, or will these washers come off the Bar with some "influence"?

[DaveG]

Okay, so I'm looking at the Cloud 9 and notice that the eye holes are larger than the one on the Bar. The Bar has what appears to be 1/4" thick washers on each side to narrow the eye hole. I can't tell, though, if they are part of the shock, and I don't want to force it and break it and leave me with no shock at all. Do I need to call the Cane Creek folks to get some hardware, or will these washers come off the Bar with some "influence"?

I.e the mounting requirements for a Fuel would be different than a Turner etc etc. It's possible the reducers in the Bar would work with the CC, but the best option is probably to contact CC or use a LBS to order the correct ones.

Dave

[Brizn]

Sax; those reducers (the 1/4" thick washers on either side of the shock where it mounts, the parts that fill the gap between shock eye and frame) are in fact removable...And i'm almost sure they will work with the c9. I believe all shock eyelets are 1/2" wide, standard. So if that width is the same, and your mounting on the same frame, then the same reducers will fill the same gap.

Just use a pair of plyers, set at wide mouth, to wiggle 'em out of the shock eye.
Then you can press 'em into the c9.. maybe using the same plyers (and a cloth).

I noticed that the oe cc eyelet bushings wore quickly (like maybe after about 4 or 5 months?).. so i replaced those with Fox bushings. Also, depending on how many miles you have on the Fuel, the reducers in question may also wear around the inner diameter-- this, and/or worn eyelet bushings, will create slight but noticeable play in the frame when you lift up on the saddle. Holla.

[DaveG]

Sax; those reducers (the 1/4" thick washers on either side of the shock where it mounts, the parts that fill the gap between shock eye and frame) are in fact removable...And i'm almost sure they will work with the c9. I believe all shock eyelets are 1/2" wide, standard.


There are two measurements that matter. The internal diameter of the reducers that press into the shock, and the width of the whole assembly when pressed together. These can vary quite a bit from frame to frame and there really isn't a "standard" that I know of. 1/2" might be the most common, but I know from experience that many bikes have different measurements.

I have a manitou swinger rear shock at home and the internal diameter of the shock eyelets are definitely smaller than the Fox ones. The fox/romic reducers I have will not fit on the swinger. I'm pretty sure the fox reducers worked with the CC shock when I put it on my Turner, but I have no idea about the rockshox ones.

Dave

[BikerMiker]

BUY THE CANE CREEK DOUBLE BARREL! The best shock ever made. Valving designed by Ohlins (they are the high quality Fox of Sweden), hand assembled in NC and expensive. It will change your expectations of what a squishy bike should feel like. Ti spring model will run you $800? I think that's right. 5" travel and up, coil spring, circulating oil damper, dedicated positive flow check valves for compression and rebound on both the high AND low speed side.

Pretty, amazing, tunable. Forget Push, forget Fox, Cane Creek has the best thing going, but it ain't cheap...

Plus, they'll give you your money back if you don't like it...

mike

[DaveG]

BUY THE CANE CREEK DOUBLE BARREL! The best shock ever made. Valving designed by Ohlins (they are the high quality Fox of Sweden), hand assembled in NC and expensive. It will change your expectations of what a squishy bike should feel like. Ti spring model will run you $800? I think that's right. 5" travel and up, coil spring, circulating oil damper, dedicated positive flow check valves for compression and rebound on both the high AND low speed side.

Pretty, amazing, tunable. Forget Push, forget Fox, Cane Creek has the best thing going, but it ain't cheap...

Plus, they'll give you your money back if you don't like it...

mike

I agree the CCDB is an awesome shock, but I don't see it being a good fit for a 3" travel Fuel :p

It's something I might think about for my 5-spot however....

[Brizn]

BUY THE CANE CREEK DOUBLE BARREL! The best shock ever made. Valving designed by Ohlins (they are the high quality Fox of Sweden), hand assembled in NC and expensive. It will change your expectations of what a squishy bike should feel like. Ti spring model will run you $800? I think that's right. 5" travel and up, coil spring, circulating oil damper, dedicated positive flow check valves for compression and rebound on both the high AND low speed side.

Pretty, amazing, tunable. Forget Push, forget Fox, Cane Creek has the best thing going, but it ain't cheap...

Plus, they'll give you your money back if you don't like it...

mike'cmon! are you for real? do you know Saxman? he's a musician! he's a real person.. that doesn't have 800 dollars for a single bicycle component! not to mention the bike it's going on!

Point taken, DaveG.

[punga]

'cmon! are you for real? do you know Saxman? he's a musician! he's a real person.. that doesn't have 800 dollars for a single bicycle component! not to mention the bike it's going on!

Point taken, DaveG.
Mike lives in another world where companies flow you components for free or really cheap because the rep and you did a 20 mile epic ride while in CA for the product launch. Or they had left over prototypes and you talk them into hooking you up.

Take several grains of salt when Mike makes recommendations about hardware that you can't afford. He knows what he's talking about, but he lives in a different universe.

punga!

[jmcgonigle]

Mike lives in another world where companies flow you components for free or really cheap because the rep and you did a 20 mile epic ride while in CA for the product launch. Or they had left over prototypes and you talk them into hooking you up.
punga!

I'd like to be transported to that world please. Is the weather always nice also? :D

[BikerMiker]

Actually, I don't know what people can afford. Am I supposed to ask for means testing for everyone before I mention what parts work well?

Most of you have A LOT more money than I do, nicer cars, bigger houses... I thought I was just making a recommendation for a rad shock that I have ridden a bunch. If you can't afford it, what the hell does that have to do with me?

I THINK it would be overkill for a Fuel, but I'm not sure. I even mentioned that in my post. Am I not allowed to do that?

Yeah, I'm lucky in SOME ways. I can't afford to pay retail for the stuff I ride, does that make you feel any better?

mike

[Brizn]

Saxman;;; let us know how it works out for you... Every so often,,, maybe wipe the stanchion with silicon lubricant--- same with your fork stanchions... Grab a can of it at Home Depot,,, spray it on a cloth or swab,,, and wipe it on... I do this every week or so,,, actually... but i have ocd,,,ocd,,,ocd...

[philvw]

I had two frames that I wanted to switch shocks on, FrameA had a cane creek, FrameB had a fox float. The length, stroke and eyelet diameter were the same, but the 'thickness' or width of the eyelets were different, thus I could not simply move the eyelets from one shock to the other and bolt them up to the (repectively) new frame. I called cane creek and said 'Iwant to put a CC on a (FrameB) and I called up Fox and said "I want to put a float on a (FrameA) and bought reducers from both companies. They werent that expensive, like $15 or something. I also bought a air sleeve rebuild kit from fox for like $6 .... so I can rebuild the float, to go along with my freshly built 'zoke up front!
So if your eyelets dont fit the new shock, it's cheap enough to resolve it.

[punga]

Actually, I don't know what people can afford. Am I supposed to ask for means testing for everyone before I mention what parts work well?

Most of you have A LOT more money than I do, nicer cars, bigger houses... I thought I was just making a recommendation for a rad shock that I have ridden a bunch. If you can't afford it, what the hell does that have to do with me?

I THINK it would be overkill for a Fuel, but I'm not sure. I even mentioned that in my post. Am I not allowed to do that?

Yeah, I'm lucky in SOME ways. I can't afford to pay retail for the stuff I ride, does that make you feel any better?

mike
Easy killer, it was a joke. Most of us aren't able to afford our habits either, but we work around that.

love ya, babycakes ;)

[saxman]

'cmon! are you for real? do you know Saxman? he's a musician! he's a real person...

Wow. That's the first time that I've seen "Musician" and "real person" put in the same sentence together :D

All kidding aside, I generally try to go for "bang for the buck"...try to get the best possible component at the budget point that I've set aside. To me the Cloud 9 met both criteria.

...and you do have to love their customer service. One button and I'm speaking to a HUMAN, and a very helpful and knowledgeable one, too. I went ahead and ordered the bushings from them, so I should be in business fairly soon.

[saxman]

I put the Cloud 9 on the bike tonight. Even just doing some garage tests, I can see this is going to be a major improvement over the stock Rock Shox Bar. The Cloud 9 really seems to work well with the Fuel's rear triangle.

I also replaced my front disc caliper and installed the front tubeless wheel. Pretty neat. Unfortunately, my rear tubless went flat :mad: . When I inflated it, a lot of white goo came bubbling through the rim. I'm thinking that I need to go back and hit it with a bit more sealant. I had the LBS do the tubeless install, so I may let them do the dirty work.

[saxman]

I did my first ride with the Cloud 9 today...so this is what a squishy bike is supposed to feel like! The Cloud 9 has totally changed the character of the entire bike. I was pushing over on some of the longer descents at Little Ben and I was blown away at how steady the bike was handling. Before this, going downhill was like hanging on for dear life. It was as if the Cloud 9 was specifically designed for my bike.

The tubeless Fire XC Pro up front (I'm having some issues with the rear wheel, so I was running a tubed rear) really gave me additional bite, which also improved the handling. I can't wait to get the rear tubeless wheel going.