How are cross bikes different?

[liltommy]

I gotta get out and ride instead of thinking about things I can buy.

I'm going to want to get out and ride some road for training purposes.
Originally I thought about just getting slicks for the 29er. Yeah, that sounds like a pain, changing out tires.

Then, I figured I could just buy a low end road bike.
Now, cross bikes have caught my attention.
Seems like good compromise.

I don't know anything about them though.
How are they different from mtb/road?
Are they tougher than road but lighter than mtb?
Can I get a low-end cross bike as cheap as a low end roadie?
I'm worried that if I get a road bike and maybe would like to a side excursion onto gravel roads or bike baths , that I'd kill it.

Tommy

[ridethewomble]

This (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5909) is a great thread on the topic from a while back. Here's (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2728) another good thread on setup.

I bought a Surly Cross Check as a versatile, tough gravel/asphalt machine. I love the thing. It's tough. It has braze-ons for fenders and racks. You can single-speed it very easily. You can fit almost any tire your whims dictate. If you get bored with one style of riding, you can rebuild it for another style.

I consider it the perfect road/W&OD/gravel machine. I'm not a roadie weight-weenie, though, so take that for what it's worth. It fits my use cases perfectly.

[liltommy]

Those threads about answered all my questions but bought up 1.
Whats the difference between the brakes on a x vs road?

[DKEG]

Those threads about answered all my questions but bought up 1.
Whats the difference between the brakes on a x vs road?
Cross uses cantilever brakes mainly ( some disc ) and Road bike uses a caliper style brake.

[eloach]

I have a real low opinion of the stopping power of canti breaks. Perhaps the ones I have are just cheap. That said, you can get a cross bike with disc breaks. I think the Lemond Propand (SP?) is one and I think you can add them on the the Surly setup. My opinion is that the breaks are the weakest part of the cross bike. The other issue with a cross bike is that the chain rings are typically 48,39 or 48,38. That compares to a road bike with a compact crank that runs (typically) 50, 36. There are also a couple of cross bikes that come with compact cranks.

If you get a GOOD cross bike you can ride it over anything your skills will let you handle, but body weight and strengthwill be a factor as well, so pick out a strong frame. Take a look at the Great Falls pics under "conditions" on this forum to see what the bike can do. I was impressed.

A cross bike could take you on Darren's dirt road rides, any road ride AND a bit of single track. A road bike will only take you on the road, but of course will be 4 pounds or so less than a cross bike and have better gearing for steep uphill and downhill.

One other thing I have noticed is the cross bikes typically come with tires that are not very good (shred and flat easily), so if you buy one you might want to order some better tires from somewhere. I don't know if City Bikes stock a variety, but most other places I looked didn't have many in stock.

[Dirt]

Cross bikes wear girl clothes sometimes and boy clothes other times. ;)

Pete

PS: My most sincere apology for this last post.

[markie]

I have a real low opinion of the stopping power of canti breaks. Perhaps the ones I have are just cheap.

Possibly. Or possibly not set up well.

I find cantilevers well suited to the cross bike. I never liked them much for the MTB, but there is a big difference in how much braking traction there is to be had with a cross tyre and a MTB tyre.

[jabberwocky]

If you get a GOOD cross bike you can ride it over anything your skills will let you handle, but body weight and strengthwill be a factor as well, so pick out a strong frame. Take a look at the Great Falls pics under "conditions" on this forum to see what the bike can do. I was impressed.As the rider of said cross bike, I must say "thanks" for being impressed with my measly skills. :)

I will note, however, that just because you can ride a cross bike in those conditions doesn't mean it really is the best choice. I just really wanted to test out my new studded tires in the snow. I would certainly have been better off on one of my mountainbikes.

[drevil]

I have seen (and maybe partook :p ) in riding fixie Surly Crosschecks amongst the rocks of Gambrill and the Watershed. It doesn't get more silly or painful than this. :D

[darren]

I like the cross bikes allot. I have used them in three ways.

I first bought a cross bike to take over as my commuter, and the cross bike did a great job, I put some heavy duty wheels on it and it was a champ.

I then tried changing out the tires and did some dirt road rides(see the two rides I lead this winter, I plan to do another as soon as I am able too)

Now I have turned my old beater bike into a fixee commuter and have left my cross bike in the cross bike configuration, with bar top brakes as well. With this rig things like the Cross County Trail are THE machine to use, single track not too tuff, some pavement, and gravel paths. I have also found Roseryville, and Parts of Wakefield fun, I might be faster on a Mt. bike, but the cross really gives you that on the rails, kind of feel.

I say get a cross bike mid level that all the companies make like the Axis, Nova, TriCross. They all have pros and cons. I would go more with a multipurpose machine then the pure cross machines. The pure cross bikes, are geared higher, and can be really stiff, since they are meant for only 1 hour rides not a 3 hour gravel road ride.

As a side note I actually take my Tandem on Gravel roads and that can be a hoot!

D

[Auger N]

I've got all three types - road, cross and MTB.

I think you should test ride both road and cross bikes and compare them yourself to see which you prefer. A second factor would be whether you think that you might actually do dirt road riding often enough to warrant a cross bike.

I think you will find that a road bike (even some of the lower-priced ones) will be much faster and more appropriate for riding on the road. My road bike (titanium and with low spoke count wheels) just feels so much faster than riding my steel cross bike. And road riding is all about effortless speed. You can put slick tires on a cross bike and use it on the road, but it will never feel as fast.

As for dirt road rides, well, I took my cross bike on the C&O canal earlier this year and it was not very comfortable (not compared with an MTB, that is).

So, in short, I woud say a road bike is a good second bike and a cross bike is a good third bike!

P.S. I often do a bike path loop on my road bike up the Capitol Crescent trail and down Rock Creek that incorporates the 2-3 mile Georgetown Branch cinder path. It is fine on my lightweight, low spoke count road bike. (Note: I am 6'3" and 230lbs and my road bike has held up fine.)

[philman]

is right on. Tommy, spinning some laps at Rosaryville on lightweight eqipment gives it a whole new thrill. And dirt road rides in the winter shake away the blues. The CCT, with all its changes in surface is made for the beast. Here's some technical stuff I've worked out over the last couple of years as I've gotten my rig to where I want it.

A lot of the bikes are marketed as Cross bikes but aimed at commuters. As such they come with triples which I never found real useful. I prefer a Compact 110 with a 46/34. Now, I have a road bike, and if I didn't would probably have a 48 or 50 tooth big ring, but this setup works well for what I use this puppy for. On the back I've had an Ultegra short cage and an 11-27. The der. exploded on a CCT ride a while back and I think I'm going to try a long cage with an 11-32 for a while.

The wheelsets most of the mid-range bikes come with are low end, and a guy your size will destoy them pretty quick. Just figure on replacing them with a work horse setup like Ultegra hubs/Mavic Open Pro rims and keep them true.

I'm satisfied with my canti's. I went old school with a hanger and straddle cable rigged low for mud clearence and sticky pads and it works ok.

"Real" cross bikes come with top tube cable routing to keep clear of the mud and stay out of the way for shouldering, but this forces a pully setup for a bottom pull road front der. I never liked that and when I went from a triple to a double chainring set up I discovered that that a top pull XT der. could be persuaded to do the job. Takes a little patience in the set up but works well.

For a guy your size, especily if you think you might ride it on single track, tire clearence should probably be a big consideration. All the bikes in this catagory will take a 35, but some, like my Bianchi Axis, will take a 42. Maxxis makes a 42x700 Wormdrive that I like a lot on rough road/single track type rides. The limiting factor is the chain stays/bottom bracket juncture.

If I was starting from scratch again I would look for a disc brake frame with clearence for a big tire. That way knocking the rims out of true isn't such a big deal. Of course to get the weight back down the frame would need to be ti and, dang, I really just want a Willets Monster X. (For fun put Monster Cross into a search engine and see what guys with too much time on their hands are building up.) Bottom line is, a cross bike is a great addition to the stable, and depending on the setup can do a lot of things fairly well, and some things great.

Pat

[jed]

It depends on what you are planning to use it for. If you are going to do group road rides or are thinking about going fast on pavement, you'll be happier with a road bike. If you want a more versatile bike that can do both pavement and some light -duty off-road stuff, get a 'cross bike.

I have both. I use my road bike for training rides on the road, and I use my 'cross bike for errands, bike path rides, and basic transportation. I prefer the 'cross bike on paved and gravel bike paths because it can withstand the pounding better. I run 28mm Specialized All Condition Armadillos on it for pavement or 32 or 35mm 'cross tires for dirt (or snow). I run 38-48 up front with an 11-32 MTB cassette in back along with an XTR short-cage rear derailleur.

If I was going to buy a 'cross bike, I'd go with a Lemond Poprad, because it's a nice steel frame and has decent parts. I'd go with disc brakes if I had the bling (the Poprad comes with either). Cantis can work well when set up correctly, but they are finicky, and nowhere near as powerful or reliable as discs. The only reason not to go with discs would be if you don't want to spend the money or plan on racing 'cross. Riding in the slush we've had lately I sure wish I had disc brakes.

[cbass]

The purpose of canti's on a cross bike is for mud clearance.
Stopping power is not as good, but for cyclocross stopping is not important.
As long as you can scrub a little speed it's all good.

I ride my 'cross bike at Avalon in August and September and it's a lot of fun.
You have to be more thoughtful about your lines, but it makes for a fresh experience...and you have to bring a couple of extra tubes and patch kit in just in casel.

Piecing together a ride that includes paved road, dirt road, and singletrack is way too much fun.

I'll second the suggestion to get a frame that will take wide tires. 34's will work great on the trail while still rolling well on the road. If you need to go wider it's good to know that you can.

The Poprad with disc brakes would be nice if you're going to ride a lot of singletrack, but otherwise properly set up canti's will do just fine.

[eloach]

http://www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/cx/solo-cxr.aspx

Got this to replace my FUJI. There is plenty of tire clearance. The only diff was it had an EC90X fork instead of the 70. Now... what to do with the Smarty Pedals it came with... I run SPD.

Anyways, this bike can take a beating, where as the Fuji was not really made to do so. The geometry of the bike seems more relaxed than a true cross race bike, but it is UCI legal. Something to keep in mind when looking at cross bikes, can it really take what you are going to throw at it?

[philman]

That does look interesting. In the photo it shows disc tabs on the seatstays but not the fork. Decent parts spec. Might be a good starting point that would be fun to break stuff on so you could upgrade.

[eloach]

That does look interesting. In the photo it shows disc tabs on the seatstays but not the fork. Decent parts spec. Might be a good starting point that would be fun to break stuff on so you could upgrade.

Let's hope I don't break anything too soon. The parts spec is better than the rider, so I'll be happy with it for a few years. Now, I need some of those wide tires you were mentioning. Any local stores stock those?

[eloach]

It looks like Maxxis may not make that tire anymore. I couldn't find it on their WWW site and only a few stores report having them in an Internet search.

It seemed like the places that had them were mostly not in the US.

[philman]

I picked them up on ebay on a quiet day for $16 for the pair, with tubes. I'm bummed if they don't make them anymore.

[eloach]

I picked them up on ebay on a quiet day for $16 for the pair, with tubes. I'm bummed if they don't make them anymore.

Do a Google on them. At least one US place still had them listed as in stock. The price was not $16, but it was not too bad. It does appear that Maxxis makes something similar, but not as wide. Specialized makes a 38 that I have used a lot and found to track well, and it is available in Amradillo Elite, which is unlikely to flat.

[philman]

That's good to know. Uh, before you put some fat tires on that rig be aware you'll have to deflate them to get past the brakes. That's another reason disc brakes would be on my ideal spec. Speaking of, was I right that the Rocky Mtn comes with tabs on the seat stay but nor the fork?

Pat

[drewdane]

That said, you can get a cross bike with disc breaks. I think the Lemond Propand (SP?) is one and I think you can add them on the the Surly setup.
I wish. The Cross Check does not come with disc tabs.

[liltommy]

Everybodys comments (except Pete's) helped me make my mind up what to do.

I went ahead and got an entry level road bike.
The main reason being I want to start doing some training rides with a group of roadies down here and I need all the help I can get. I'll report back if my massive girth completely destroys the skinny wheels.

BTW, no I'm not turning roadie. I, like everybody else, want to train for the sm100.

seeyall

[drevil]

Everybodys comments (except Pete's) helped me make my mind up what to do.

I went ahead and got an entry level road bike.
The main reason being I want to start doing some training rides with a group of roadies down here and I need all the help I can get. I'll report back if my massive girth completely destroys the skinny wheels.

BTW, no I'm not turning roadie. I, like everybody else, want to train for the sm100.

seeyall
Although your habit of wearing jeans during cross country mountain bike rides is semi-acceptable to the mountain bike contingent, you will be shunned by roadies if you continue that habit on the road. :D

[DaveG]

Although your habit of wearing jeans during cross country mountain bike rides is semi-acceptable to the mountain bike contingent, you will be shunned by roadies if you continue that habit on the road. :D

with hairy legs, a camel back, full finger gloves etc etc, I really get strange looks. It's kinda amusing. You must fit in! You must assimilate!


I have these fantasies of riding away from the front, but alas I'm generally doing all I can to hang onto the back of the pack.


This gross generalization is generally accurate only for the faster rides where people have delusions of grandeur. The folks on the slower rides are usually awesome.

Dave

[Dirt]

Everybodys comments (except Pete's) helped me make my mind up what to do.

I'm happy that I could be of so much help to you. :D

Pete

[drevil]

with hairy legs, a camel back, full finger gloves etc etc, I really get strange looks. It's kinda amusing. You must fit in! You must assimilate!


I have these fantasies of riding away from the front, but alas I'm generally doing all I can to hang onto the back of the pack.


This gross generalization is generally accurate only for the faster rides where people have delusions of grandeur. The folks on the slower rides are usually awesome.

Dave
Yeah, I was speaking about the perceived "assimilation" factor, but also wearing full length jeans on a long road ride isn't very comfortable.

[liltommy]

I've tried long rides with jean shorts.
Not a good idea.
So I'll give the pants up, but dammit, I'm not giving up the camelback, hairy legs, or SPD's.

[eloach]

What's really funny on long road rides with SpeedPlay cleats and road shoes is when your bike dies and your like 50 miles from where you left your car. There's no light weight tennis shoes in the Camel back either, 'cause who uses a Camelback on a road ride! Of course your tiny little repair kit can't fix the damage either, but that's all you could carry in your rear jeresy pocket.

Which makes me think of one nice thing about long road rides. You know those jeresy pockets that DO NOT have a zipper on them that you never use on an MTB because whatever you put in them goes flying out after a few pieces of tech? Well, they are actually usable on a road ride! Even more so, since there is no CamelBack covering them.

Have fun training and ride in a pack to protect yourself from motorized fools. And, I gotta say, I think your fellow riders will appreciate your being there emensly if some clown gets out of a car and tries to start an altercation because the pack didn't get out of his way quick enough<grin>. I have actaully seen that happen.

[punga]

What's really funny on long road rides with SpeedPlay cleats and road shoes is when your bike dies and your like 50 miles from where you left your car. There's no light weight tennis shoes in the Camel back either, 'cause who uses a Camelback on a road ride! Of course your tiny little repair kit can't fix the damage either, but that's all you could carry in your rear jeresy pocket.

Which makes me think of one nice thing about long road rides. You know those jeresy pockets that DO NOT have a zipper on them that you never use on an MTB because whatever you put in them goes flying out after a few pieces of tech? Well, they are actually usable on a road ride! Even more so, since there is no CamelBack covering them.

Have fun training and ride in a pack to protect yourself from motorized fools. And, I gotta say, I think your fellow riders will appreciate your being there emensly if some clown gets out of a car and tries to start an altercation because the pack didn't get out of his way quick enough<grin>. I have actaully seen that happen.
Interesting story about biker-car interactions:

In 2002, I did the Wash. DC AIDS ride from Norfolk to DC. The last stretch was into DC along Constitution Ave. to the base of the Monument. They had blocked the right lane off from traffic because of the thousands of riders coming into town. 5 blocks from the end (I certainly wasn't the first rider and there were more behind me) a green Dodge pickup whizzed by me close enough for me to hear the mirror going by my ear (remember, there were cones blocking the right lane).

I caught up to the guy at the next light and the conversation went something this:
"Hey, you almost killed me back there"
"Get out of the phuckin' road!"

Light turns green, guy goes to pull away in a hurry. I reach out and with open palm, slapped the side of his truck. He hits the brakes and swerves in front of me. I do an endo, but keep from falling. I don't know what his next move would have been, but there were 50-100 riders behind me and I think his survival instinct took over. He sped away, spinning wheels and all. I tried to catch him at the next light, but he got away.

Later, at the finish line party, several people came up to me and said they had seen what happened and all were hoping Mr. Green Truck would have gotten out. It does pay to ride in packs on the road ;)

punga!

[burgh punk]

My brief comment on Punga's story...my dad has an old saying about road riding and guys in trucks: The bigger the truck, the bigger the @55hole driving it.

[CRAIG2]

My brief comment on Punga's story...my dad has an old saying about road riding and guys in trucks: The bigger the truck, the bigger the @55hole driving it.

You forgot the fragile egos, and tiny peckers. ;)

[walsh]

What's really funny on long road rides with SpeedPlay cleats and road shoes is when your bike dies and your like 50 miles from where you left your car.

How does this happen? :confused:

Unless you have a serious accident, a shredded tire sidewall is the worst case scenario I could envision. Maybe multiple broken spokes? But carrying an extra folding tire (and spokes, too) is quite possible for any sort of long solo ride. If you're running tubulars, you should be carrying an extra tire no matter what.

[philman]

So I'll give the pants up, but dammit, I'm not giving up the camelback, hairy legs, or SPD's.

I kept the SPD's and hairy legs, but lost the camelback. All the stuff you need for a road bike, the tube, tire lever, minimalist tool and even a threaded CO2 carteridge and valve, will fit in a small blowout bag. I found trying to use one camelbak for two different wheelsize bikes led to some awkward moments :(