Full suspension questions...HELP??!!

[Sherpa Boy]

Hello -

Getting a full suspension high end ride, narrowed it down to a few bikes:

Ellsworth Truth
Ventana El Salt
Titus Racer X
Yeti AS-R

I'm a bigger dude at around 190lbs. Not quite "chunkin' the deuce!!"

The bikes don't matter as much as the terminology, coming off a 100% dedicated XC racer hard tail, I'm out of the loop. First, are coil over shocks basically obsolete? Keep in mind, my goal is about 4" of travel, no freeriding or DH action, just long XC days. Is an air shock superior to coil over?
What the heck are quad bearings? The sales guy didn't sell me on this "upgrade."
He says they are stronger and offer more re-enforcement - re-enforcement of what??!! Is the Fox RP23 considered a high end rear shock? Not that I care of it's status, but it's performance. I hear of engaging the pro pedal to eliminate bob - is the "pro pedal" specific to the RP23?

Sorry for the long message, but trying to wrap your head around this stuff is way too confusing. I'm at the point where I'll keep my hardtail!!!
Thanks for any and all insight to this confusing mess of simply riding a bike!!

[CountZero]

Coil overs are still available for long-travel applications, but have been replaced on most cross-country designs by air shocks. The air spring canister of an air shock is analogous to the coil of a coil-over. Modern air shocks are pretty good all around.

"Quad bearings" is an option on Ventana bikes. It just means that they press in two cartridge bearings on either side of the main pivot. Possibly on all the big pivots, I'm not sure. Ventana knows what they're doing, so if they recommend quad bearings for a guy your size, you probably want to do it.

The RP23 is a high end shock. It is also the most appropriate Fox shock for the bikes you're looking at.

Propedal is a marketing term for damping of the shock's compression stroke that occurs only when the damper piston is moving very slowly. This low-speed compression damping eliminates harmonic oscillation (bob) due to drivetrain/suspension feedback and weight transfer. I think it's overrated, but a lot of people love it. I believe that all Fox shocks now have Propedal features.

Finally, all of those bikes are really nice. I have some comments:

The Truth is a very, very light race bike. Ellseworth's engineering and manufacturing processes have improved over the years, but I've seen a lot of broken Truth's in person. Almost all were in the disappointed hands of big guys. I think there should be a weight limit of 160 lbs on those bikes. IMHO, you would be better off with a less feathery bike.

I've looked into getting a Ventana El Salt for myself. They are very well made. If you plan to get the 4" travel Salt, go for it. If you ride hard, you may want to ask Ventana for the big straight-guage downtube they used on their X-5. It would add a lot of rigidity to your bike's front triangle.

The Yeti and Racer-X are also super nice. I have no personal experience with either, so I'll hold my tongue.

Best,

Tom

[BikerMiker]

This is an area of personal interest so I'll just add on.

At 190, you are within a solid cheeseburger of my weight. I've been racing fs bikes for a few years now (4?) and I'd love to add the Epic to your vocabulary. It's a super-efficient race bike that has 4" of travel. The epic allows for more tuning that any other race fs bike due to the little brain thingy hanging off the back as well as the stock adjustments. On race day, you can make is superstiff by turning a dial (not a lockout) so that it is a hardtail when it's smooth but still fully active when you hit a bump. Other days, you can back it off and sink into the travel just like a 'normal' trail bike.

I'm not a fan of ProPedal (it's just compression damping that slows down the compression at ALL parts of the stroke, resulting in a more harsh ride (in my experience).

The Yeti is a great bike and they ride really well. Again, a race bike, for sure, but not afraid of aggressive xc riding (2-4' drops).

I know a lot of people racing the Stumpjumper FSR bikes. They just re-designed the frame to make it lighter AND stiffer AND they have a carbon version (my ride). For bigger guys, a little more travel is a good idea. The bikes still end up less than 27lbs and can be down to sub 26lbs.

Good luck.

mike

[Sherpa Boy]

Thanks for the info!!! I knew this was the place to post. I thought the Truth might not be right for me and now you guys confirmed. "X" it off the list....

Thanks again for the feedback!

[cbottcher]

I have a Racer X 100 and I love it. It's the best handling XL framed bike I have been on. I weigh the same as you and there are no durability issues. The Racer X uses quad bearings at the main swing arm pivot for long life. Though the Racer X only has 3.75" travel in the rear it feels like more due to the low 1.86:1 leverage ratio on the shock. The benefit of the air shock is you can dial it in perfectly for your weight and lighter weight. You might also want to consider the Speedgoat Asylum which is a 29er Racer X.
http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=119554&cat=170&brand=2

If you go with the Salt, I would recommend the quad bearing option at all pivots. It adds a little weight and a couple of xtra $ but you won't have to replace any pivot bearings for many years. Something else to think about is the heavy duty swing arm option for the Salt. They use the rear end off their tandem I believe and it makes for a very stiff frame. I also have the lower end Ventana Pantera frame, also with quad bearings, and it is a quality build.

As for the Specialized and Trek, they offer lifetime warranties on their frames. Something to think about if you are hard on your bike.

[TrailVictim]

I've been riding a Racer X for several years and I can't see myself riding anything else (Although the MotoLite is tempting). I started off with a 80mm version and I'm now riding a Hammerhead 100mm which is nothing more than a custom RACER X. You'll be hard pressed to find a bad review on the X.
I live in Centreville VA right next to the powerlines if you wan't to try one out.

D

[ridethewomble]

I fit your profile - 6'2", 200 lbs. I borrowed my brother's HammerHead, which is really a Titus RacerX 100, for a long ride on the Ouchita Trail in AR. I LOVED that bike. It has a beefy, stiff rear triangle, it's nice and plush going down, but also climbs well. The bike felt very well put-together.

[soreback]

you may want to consider the Yeti AS-R's big brother, the Yeti 575. A major league trail bike with more travel but climbs as well as most cross country bikes.

[tomn]

My buddy has a Yeti 575. He's a big guy (about 6'3") and it fits him well (not sure what frame size though). He is an aggressive rider on downhills and he climbs hills like a goat, he has nothing but good things to say about the bike.

I will say this -- I recently moved from 4" to 5" of travel (both front and rear) and it was a noticeable difference. I would think seriously about what kind of riding you do and whether you could use the extra inch of travel. I'm also a bigger guy (5'11", 195lbs) and the extra travel has been nice (for me anyway) in the rocky terrain in Frederick, for example. But I also like to do the <4' drops and ride waaaay too fast on the downhills. I'm not about to go to the DH park at Snowshoe (at least not yet, and certainly not on my current XC bike) but I do like to get a little bit of air here and there.

Good luck on your quest! :)

[Pinoy Rider]

I have a 575, love it. However, it sounds like he wants a more efficient ride. The ASR is the better bike then. If you like hammering out of the saddle, then the 575 is not it. The 575 is a sit and spin type of bike.

[jed]

If you want efficient, go with the Specialized Epic. I've owned a bunch of full suspension bikes (SC Superlight, Trek Fuel, 2 FSRs) and none of them work as well as the Epic when you are on the gas. You can sit and pedal over rough stuff and it works just like any 4" bike, but if you are climbing something smooth, or winding up your sprint, it is hardtail solid. It's also very stiff laterally. It works well on all kinds of terrain, especially if you take the time to experiment with shock setup. The shock sags into the travel before the inertia valve takes over, too, so you can set up sag just like any other rear shock. Last year's model ('06) had a real solid platform; this year's ('07) has a smoother inertia valve that feels more like a typical full suspension unless you adjust it to be way stiff. The '06 wasn't as supple as the '07 but more tolerant of mashing.

Besides the rear end, the Epic is just an all around great bike for fast XC riding and racing. And yeah, I have one for sale on this board, but it's too small for Sherpa Boy. I just think it's a great bike and have been real happy with mine. Pretty light, efficient climber, capable bump-swallower, great handling, what more do you want? Specialized specs good components for the money too.

[Odie]

i've got a brand new chuma XCL with the pro pedal if u want i'll meet u on the trail and u can take her out for a ride. lemme know

[Sherpa Boy]

i've got a brand new chuma XCL with the pro pedal if u want i'll meet u on the trail and u can take her out for a ride. lemme know

You guys are way too kind...man, didn't expect these kinds of offers!! I'd love to, but I'm out of the area right now. Based on these posts, I've narrowed it down to the Ventana El Salt. Although I'll go and ride the Specialized offerings. Not that I'm a snob...BUT, I wanted to go with a smaller company (Ventana, Turner, Titus, etc.). But often (as in life) it's bang for the buck.

Thank again for all the feedback and offerings to ride your baby. That doesn't sound right, but we all get the point.

[CountZero]

Ventanas are oh so sweet.