C02 Inflators- Advise please

[bikerRob]

7/23/06 >> On Friday, just before it got dark I blew my back tire out by landing the rear wheel right on the cusp of a rut. It pinch-flatted imediately. With the light quickly fading I popped the wheel off, brought out my spare tube and begun pumping it up with my trusty-dusty (Blackburn?) Mt. Ze'fal mini pump (8yrs old ) No problems but boy does the thing give you a workout. After you're done you feel like you could win a contest in ...well...you know. So anyway I continue on after I put my lights on I'm off to the races. Along the way I take a 20 minute break and when I come back to the bike suddenly I notice....Oh no! another flat! #$%@#$ Lucky for me it wasn't a full blown flat, just a slow leak in my old beat up replacement tube. Good thing too or I would have been doing some walking. So once again out comes the pump..fif..fif...fif...fif...X 10 to the 5th power. Having no idea how long it would it would last I had to beat feet back to the car. Luckily it held long enough to get back. After this episode Me thinks a C02 inflator might be in order (or maybe a newer pump ) not because I can't hack a pump but that spending time bent over pumping away doesn't do my back a lot of good ( getting old..sigh..what can you do?) I used to own an earlier version of a c02 inflator that used a screw on cartridge. Half of the air used to leak out before I could get the thing screwed on and C02 is cold! Plus the inflator had no modulator so It was no picnic to play with. I just stayed with the pump after that. Now...fast forward to 2006: The pain I'm feeling in my back right now is telling me, "How'a'bout one of those new fangled inflators dude"? Yeah...good idea. So, which ones now work the best, those that are screw on or the other push on types? ( trivia question: was there ever a song called, "Oh hand me down my walking cane"? )

[Dirt]

I've used a bunch of different ones over the years. My favorite are the simplest ones you can find. Genuine Innovations makes a good, cheap simple system that has been rock solid for me for years.

They changed the design last year so it is a little different than it used to be. I haven't used the latest incarnation of it, but it looks almost identical to the one I've got.

It is cheap, simple and works great. That is a hard combination to beat.

http://www.speedgoat.com/images/products/118902.jpg

I think that basic kit goes for about $12. On my 26" wheeled bikes, I used a 16gram cartridge. For 29ers it might be good to go with something bigger.

Michelin now makes an inflation system that has sealant built in. It was designed for tubular road tires, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for a mountain bike tire. It would work great if you've got a slow leak. I haven't used it before, but I've read very good things about it.

One other note. AFter using Co2, you'll notice that your tire is soft again the next morning. Co2 molecules are smaller than air, so they sublimate through normal cycling tubes. Don't worry. If you just pump it up with a pump, your tube should be fine.

Pete

[BikerMiker]

I've got to meet that Peter guy. What a prince, although Punga says good things which makes me wonder... heh...

Fully agreeing with Pete here, check THIS out. Simplest, threaded only, Italian, sexysexysexy... oh and brass

[ridethewomble]

I have been carrying the "Big Air" from Genuine Innovations. It's the same rig Pete shows, but it has a bigger cannister. Hilariously, it's full of flammable gas. (http://fatcyclist.spaces.msn.com/blog/cns!B26536EE8298D087!3523.entry?_c1 1_blogpart_blogpart=blogview&_c=blogpart#permalink)

I have been very lucky, in that I haven't had to use it yet. Because I just said that, I am going to genuflect to the Cycling Gods to beat the jinx I just put on myself. :eek:

Has anyone used their "Big Air!" in the wild yet? Did you like it?

[markie]

Co2 molecules are smaller than air, so they sublimate through normal cycling tubes. Don't worry. If you just pump it up with a pump, your tube should be fine.

Pete

Umm If CO2 moleculles are smaller than air, what planet do you live on?

Here on Earth the atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen (N2) and around 20% oxygen (O2), both of these are smaller and diffuse quicker than CO2.

Of course some gasses may dissolve/ be absorbed in rubber easier than others, but I doubt this explanation. I cannot think of a mechanism.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Umm If CO2 moleculles are smaller than air, what planet do you live on?

Here on Earth the atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen (N2) and around 20% oxygen (O2), both of these are smaller and diffuse quicker than CO2.

Of course some gasses may dissolve/ be absorbed in rubber easier than others, but I doubt this explanation. I cannot think of a mechanism.

Im not sure if that is the cause but CO2 inflated tires do loose their pressure faster than regular tires. Im not sure if its the size of the molecules or not but i have heard that you are suppose to uninflate the tire and then reinflate it with normal air so that you dont loose pressure in the tube.

[Dirt]

Umm If CO2 moleculles are smaller than air, what planet do you live on?

Here on Earth the atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen (N2) and around 20% oxygen (O2), both of these are smaller and diffuse quicker than CO2.

Of course some gasses may dissolve/ be absorbed in rubber easier than others, but I doubt this explanation. I cannot think of a mechanism.

Whatever. You fill a tube with C02 and its empty by morning.

Thanks for the science lesson.

[Dirt]

[QUOTE=ridethewomble] Hilariously, it's full of flammable gas. (http://fatcyclist.spaces.msn.com/blog/cns!B26536EE8298D087!3523.entry?_c1 1_blogpart_blogpart=blogview&_c=blogpart#permalink)
QUOTE]

According to Genuine INnovations, their CO2 isn't flamable. That's just their advertising copy though.

Edit: I just read a thing about Big Air. As ridethewomble said, it actually is flamable. It is basically propane in a can.

Pete

[markie]

Whatever. You fill a tube with C02 and its empty by morning.




I think this phenomena is all in your head. You might want to experiment a few more times with C02.

[Dirt]

I think this phenomena is all in your head. You might want to experiment a few more times with C02.

I've been using CO2 for years. In my experience, 100% of the time there is very little air pressure in the tire the next day. When I pump up the tire with a tire pump, the air holds fine.

Sorry dude. You can say what you like about what is (or is not) in my head. You can post them as rudely as you like. In my experience it is true and I'll stand by it.

Your experience is different. I'm very happy for you.

Pete

[hophead]

I use the C02 inflator shown in the picture below. It works great. I rarely carry a pump. They are available at Performance for around 18 bucks.

Not trying to stir up any shite here, but I am interested in this whole C02 vs. air debate. I have not experienced the C02 leakage phenomenon. I am curious as to how C02 would escape from an inner tube faster than the smaller 02 molecule. I might have to conduct a little experiment when I get home.

-Scott

[gaz]

I have el cheapo Performance Hurricane thingy in my Camelbak. Got it on sale. Hooray. Main reason I got it is because it can take any type of cartridge 12g or 16g, threaded or non threaded, and I have a half dozen or so 12g unthreaded from a BB gun that I can use. Once those are used up, you can remove the cylinder, leaving you with just the top bit.

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/400/40_2202.jpg

Thankfully, it's never been called into action on the trail (cause I never ride) so I can't speak for the ability of CO2 to hold pressure. However, I would think that the main reason for using these thingies is to get you back in the saddle asap. If the wheel is down the next morning, I at least have my trusty floor pump to get it inflated toot-sweet.

[philvw]

When I was researching CO2 for my road bike, because I couldnt figure out where to carry the d#mn pump, I found out to go with an unthreaded cartridge system so that you can buy co2 cartridges at WalMart in sporting goods, 20 for 12 bucks or something like that, instead of $3 a piece at the bike store.

[Dirt]

Not trying to stir up any shite here, but I am interested in this whole C02 vs. air debate. I have not experienced the C02 leakage phenomenon. I am curious as to how C02 would escape from an inner tube faster than the smaller 02 molecule. I might have to conduct a little experiment when I get home.


I guessed at the whole smaller molecule thing. I know that some tubes lose air faster than others because the make-up of the tube allows for faster sublimation of what-ever you use to inflate your tires. That is specifically true with tubular road tires. I always liked Vittoria tires because they held air longer than the Clement tires that the sponsor gave us.

Since I've always found that my tires are way down on pressure the morning after using CO2 to inflate them, I just assumed that it had something to do with the properties of CO2 vs. air.

It is obvious from markie's posts that he doesn't experience this either. I don't have an explanation for that.

It isn't of enough interest to me to bother with doing an experiment. I always check tire pressure before loading up the bike for a ride. If I've had a flat, then I end up pumping 20 times instead of 5. It isn't a big deal.

Pete

[Dirt]

When I was researching CO2 for my road bike, because I couldnt figure out where to carry the d#mn pump, I found out to go with an unthreaded cartridge system so that you can buy co2 cartridges at WalMart in sporting goods, 20 for 12 bucks or something like that, instead of $3 a piece at the bike store.

Genuine Innovations suggests that these may not be the best way to fill your tires. They claim CO2 cartridges for BB guns have oil mixed in with the CO2 in order to lubricate the mechanism of the gun. GI seems to think that isn't as good for bicycles.

It seems silly to debate this stuff. If the BBgun CO2 works for you, great. I just read an article about CO2 inflaters last week in a roadie magazine and thought some of it is interesting.

Use what works best for you. I'm gonna get one of the systems made by Michellin that I mentioned for my road bike. That just seems like a great idea for tubulars.

Pete

[BikerMiker]

Yo Pete, I have the same CO2 leakage issue. We know that air (CO2, NO, CO, whatever) diffuses through rubber (porous at molecular level) and I thought that it was normal to lose CO2 more quickly but was never sure why.

So, I'm with you. You have to 'rotate' the air after using CO2. This has happened to me various times over the last 15 years or so.

mike

[hophead]

Okay, I did a little research and got this C02 thing figured out:

Air is comprised of mostly Oxygen and Nitrogen. O2 has a molecular weight of 32.00 g/mole; N2 is 28.01; C02 is 44.01.

So the C02 molecule is bigger and should diffuse more slowly through a membrane (the innertube) than air and it would if the atmosphere was comprised of 75% CO2, but it's not, it's mostly nitrogen. The partial pressure of C02 is much higher inside the tube as compared to the outside of the tube. Nature does not like that and wants to equalize the pressure. The CO2 molecules are therefore highly motivated to find their way through your tube.

Air on the other hand is the same composition inside the tire and out. The pressure is higher on the inside, so eventually it will leak out, but at a slower rate than CO2.

Mystery solved.

Have a nice day. :)

-Scott

[Dirt]

Thanks for the info. I'm glad that CO2 is so highly motivated. I just wish it had more lofty goals in life than to leave my tubes. ;)

Pete

[markie]

Okay, I did a little research and got this C02 thing figured out:



Mystery solved.

Have a nice day. :)

-Scott

Not so quick,

I am not sure that holds true, In principle it works, systems tend toward disorder, entropy. But I think that the 40 psi or so you have in your tyres would be would be more motivation for the air to escape than returning the C02 equilibrium.

We need a physicist and some equations.

[notrelatedtoted]

Not so quick,

I am not sure that holds true, In principle it works, systems tend toward disorder, entropy. But I think that the 40 psi or so you have in your tyres would be would be more motivation for the air to escape than returning the C02 equilibrium.

We need a physicist and some equations.

Hope this helps.

[BikerMiker]

Oh, NOW it all makes sense. Pics of people in lab coats always make things easier for me...

mike

[gaz]

Jeez! Let it go! Who cares?! Works long term for some people, doesn't for others... and those people have to pump it up again next morning at home. Woohoo.

Bottom line is that it gets ya back on the trail quicker than manually pumping.

[CRAIG2]

No kidding! If this is the most important thing you all have to ponder today, you're doing well! Really, who cares??

Here's another thread I hope keels over soon.... Oy vey, people. Really.

[Dirt]

More importantly... How many people think it is funny that a guy named "Gaz" is commenting on CO2 inflators?

Maybe it's just me.

Love,

Pete

PS: You know I love you Gary. I'm just being infantile... as usual.

[Jackson]

Here is my experience with CO2 -

1) Hmmm tire is low - let me try me new CO2 thingy---

2) PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFT - rapid decompression. (Any being directed into the tire is purely accidental.)

3) Look at CO2 dispenser - Seems like a simple device. I glanced at the instructions... Let me try again with my other cartridge.

4) Repeat step 2.

5) Ride back to car, get pump.

6) I have two free CO2 cartridges (one threaded, one non-threaded. Don't know why,)

Free to first person who asks for them - I drive a black Honda Element with a Trek sticker and a US Flag on the back. Frequent Wakefield after work during the week.

[markie]

So no one cares how the world around them actually works? No one enjoys the beautiful complexity in such a simple problem?

Fine, I'll go back to my lab and play with myself.

Oh and whoever took away my green dots for being cheeky to Dirt can F#@% off.

[riderx]

Bottom line is that it gets ya back on the trail quicker than manually pumping.And adds another piece of garbage to the landfill.

Save the planet, buy a pump (slogan suggestion for Blackburn, et al.). I must be some sort of hippie...

I'm quite sure this can keep the thread from dieing - Flame on!

[philvw]

I just bought tires for my car at Costco. They claim to put Nitrogen in them. They claim it does all sorts of good things. I'm hoping it will take over the car payments. They claim it leakes slower and is more stable (expand/contract) at all temperatures. Maybe thats what we need, trailside Nitrogen filling stations.

[hophead]

Here is my experience with CO2 -

1) Hmmm tire is low - let me try me new CO2 thingy---

2) PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFT - rapid decompression. (Any being directed into the tire is purely accidental.)

3) Look at CO2 dispenser - Seems like a simple device. I glanced at the instructions... Let me try again with my other cartridge.

4) Repeat step 2.

5) Ride back to car, get pump.

6) I have two free CO2 cartridges (one threaded, one non-threaded. Don't know why,)

Free to first person who asks for them - I drive a black Honda Element with a Trek sticker and a US Flag on the back. Frequent Wakefield after work during the week.
Not all C02 inflators are created equal. Mine works great. I have two of them--one under the seat of my road frankensinglespeed and another in my Camelbak. One feature that I'm surprised is not standard on all inflators is the ability to regulate the C02 being dispensed. You just screw in the cartridge, press the chuck on to your tire valve and press on the top of the chuck and viola, the tire fills with C02.
I just bought tires for my car at Costco. They claim to put Nitrogen in them. They claim it does all sorts of good things. I'm hoping it will take over the car payments. They claim it leakes slower and is more stable (expand/contract) at all temperatures. Maybe thats what we need, trailside Nitrogen filling stations.
All tires are filled with nitrogen. Air is around 3/4 nitrogen. The temp. thing is true. Your tire pressure will increase less with pure nitrogen, but unless you drive an SR-71 or a Formula 1 car, it probably is of little benefit. Kinda reminds me of Beechwood aging. :rolleyes:

[DaveG]

And adds another piece of garbage to the landfill.

Save the planet, buy a pump (slogan suggestion for Blackburn, et al.). I must be some sort of hippie...

I'm quite sure this can keep the thread from dieing - Flame on!


How long does it take to use a mini-pump? I can change a flat tire in ~5 minutes when I really hurry. A CO2 cartridge might shave off a minute.

Dave

[CRAIG2]

Not sure - I have a Blackburn mountain bike pump, somewhere in size between a mini-pump and frame pump. If I had to guess, it's probably 14-16" in length (the pump!!), and it has a tire guage on the hose (of the pump!!). Even with a large volume tire, it takes only a couple of minutes to get it back up to around 30-35 psi. I want to say the pump model is MTB-2, but I could be mistaken. I love the pump, though.

On the road bike, I have a full on Zefal frame pump. Not as fast at CO2, I know, but it works wonderfully. And no, I'm not considered about the weight - if you know who I am, you'll understand this... :)

Craig

[hophead]

Weigh and speed are not the only reasons to carry C02.

For me, neither is a concern. I use C02 because I like to ride with just a small saddle bag whenever possible and a pump, no matter how "mini," just won't fit.

This time of year I'm forced to use my Camelbak unless I'm riding less than an hour which is pretty much never. If I knew where my damn pump is I'd probably carry it.

-Scott

[Jackson]

Not all C02 inflators are created equal.

That's a good point - Some people seem to love them. Since I've had a little bad luck lately, I know that on future rides with CO2 my number of flats would be equal to the number of cartridges I have +1!

[Dirt]

How long does it take to use a mini-pump? I can change a flat tire in ~5 minutes when I really hurry. A CO2 cartridge might shave off a minute.

Dave

There are some awesome pumps out there that don't take that long to put pressure in your tires. My Crank Bros. pump is fantastic. I like that you can switch between high volume and high pressure. It makes the pumping go much faster, yet keeps the pump remarkably small.

The Crank Brothers pump was a little pricey ($26). They put some quality in the pressure gauge. It is pretty darn accurate for a small pump. I think I paid $25 for it. The first one I got wasn't assembled correctly and it broke the first time I used it. I was still able to fill the tire, it just was hard to keep a good seal. Revolution replaced the pump immediately and Crank Bros. sent them a new one to replace the defective pump. Crank Bros has great customer service.

The way the Crank Bros attaches to the valve is a little different. It isn't hard to do once you get past the first time using the pump. I always end up lending the pump to people on the trail and they give it a puzzled look until I show them how it work. Then they say, "That's cool!".

I've also got a Topeak that works great too (I have 2 packs, so I have 2 pumps). The thing I like about it is the way the handle swings out to be comfortable when you're using the pump.

The Topeak was cheaper ($18), it doesn't have a pressure gauge, but I think I like the valve attachment system a little better. It is intuitively obvious to the casual observer how to use the pump.

Pete

[Dirt]

That's a good point - Some people seem to love them. Since I've had a little bad luck lately, I know that on future rides with CO2 my number of flats would be equal to the number of cartridges I have +1!

I carry both. Since I do a lot of ride leading, it is sometimes nice to have CO2 in order to speed flat changes. I also use CO2 when time is of importance (a storm is rolling in). Most of the time I use the pump.

Pete

[Dirt]

And adds another piece of garbage to the landfill.

Save the planet, buy a pump (slogan suggestion for Blackburn, et al.). I must be some sort of hippie...

I'm quite sure this can keep the thread from dieing - Flame on!

Awesome point! It isn't much consolation, but I do recycle the steel cartridges. I should definitely use the pump in all but emergency situations. I confess to getting lazy sometimes.

[drewdane]

And adds another piece of garbage to the landfill.

Save the planet, buy a pump (slogan suggestion for Blackburn, et al.). I must be some sort of hippie...

I'm quite sure this can keep the thread from dieing - Flame on!
Hear, hear! (Read, read?)

I can sort of - only sort of - understand why you'd want to carry one in a race, but otherwise I say suck it up and accept that sometimes life requires a little elbow grease.

[RubberSideDown]

There are a couple of combo models out there now. co2 AND a hand pump (he said hand pump, heh heh heh).

My LBS had one for $22 bucks and it was quite compact too. I'll stick to my Blackburn hand pump.

[bikerRob]

...There are some awesome pumps out there that don't take that long to put pressure in your tires. My Crank Bros. pump is fantastic. I like that you can switch between high volume and high pressure. It makes the pumping go much faster, yet keeps the pump remarkably small. ...Pete

7/26/06 >> Ah, now your talking. I like the idea of an adjustable pressure setting as this is the problem I have with mine. Mine works great at the beginning but once the tire is half way filled the resistance level doubles before you can get decent pressure in the tire. It would be great to have the option to change pressure setting (low to high) to finish off the fill. What model number do you have?

Now about the leakage thing: I thought I would throw some thoughts into the mix...these are just theories mind you. I don't think the atomic structure of the molecules is the deciding factor here as both are very small compared to the pores in the tubes. Both regular air and pure C02 will leak through after time. Look at it this way; Both a bus and car can pass through a tunnel although one is much larger in this case it wouldn't make a difference. I theorize that when you fill your tube with normal air that you're pumping into the tube all the "other stuff"that is included in normal air...such as moisture (H20) dust, free floating electrical ions. Perhaps some of this stuff would adhere to the molecules of air and slow their passage throught the tube. I do know that free floating electrons can adhere to other atoms giving them a static charge (however small that may be) Who knows, maybe it makes a difference.

[CRAIG2]

New poll: How many MORE members are analysts with nothing better to do than debate whether or not to fill your tubes with CO2?

DIE THREAD DIE!!!!

[Dirt]

7/26/06 >> What model number do you have?

http://www.crankbrothers.com/templates/products/pumps/alloy.jpg

Crank Brothers Power Pump Alloy. It looks like the price went up since I got mine a few years back. They now MSRP for $35.

They make a smaller one that doesn't have he gauge.

http://www.crankbrothers.com/templates/products/pumps/ultra.jpg
That's the Power Pump Ultra.

They make one in between.

Here's the whole collection: Crank Brothers Pumps (http://www.crankbrothers.com/pumps.php)

Pete

[Dirt]

New poll: How many MORE members are analysts with nothing better to do than debate whether or not to fill your tubes with CO2?

DIE THREAD DIE!!!!

Craig: What does it say about you that you have nothing better to do than complain about us discussing how we fill our tires? ;)

How you fill your tires has a lot to say about how you fill your life.

Which brings me to the topic of TIRE BALLS (http://www.tireballs.com/) (Thanks DL!)!

Have a nice day.

Pete

[drewdane]

New poll: How many MORE members are analysts with nothing better to do than debate whether or not to fill your tubes with CO2?

DIE THREAD DIE!!!!
Give us your address so we can tell the SWAT team where to go to rescue you from the gunman forcing you to open this thread. :p

[CRAIG2]

Yeah, I have to admit, I have no life so I have time to pump - it gives me something to do ;)

[drewdane]

Which brings me to the topic of TIRE BALLS (http://www.tireballs.com/) (Thanks DL!)!

My goodness. That's almost bizarre enough to merit posting in the Feta Cheese thread. Not that it isn't an interesting concept - it is, honestly - but they look like a royal PITA to install, especially for something to fix a pretty minor issue.

[hophead]

New poll: How many MORE members are analysts with nothing better to do than debate whether or not to fill your tubes with CO2?

DIE THREAD DIE!!!!
Craig,

Are you off your meds again?

[CRAIG2]

Shhh!! Yeah, my buzz is wearing off.... Didn't get my full two martinis in today. :rolleyes:

[hophead]

Shhh!! Yeah, my buzz is wearing off.... Didn't get my full two martinis in today. :rolleyes:
That's too bad. I had a couple of pints of black valium for (I mean with) lunch today. :D

Oh and BTW, Guinness is dispensed with a mix of nitrogen and C02, but never air.

[triscuit]

I can't believe I just read this whole thread, but I have something to add that I hope is somewhat constructive and addresses the OP's question.

CO2s are nice because they are quick. But on your fourth flat on the far side of Fountainhead they don't do you much good, because you are not likely to be carrying more than two or three cartridges. Ever since this happened to me, I carry a pump. You might invest in a newer one. I have one that becomes a mini floor pump, but is no bigger than your typical pump.

I am sure you know this, but pumps come in two varieties--high pressure or high volume (though some have a switch between the two and some just do both). If you happen to be using the wrong one on the wrong bike, it can make pumping your tires much more difficult than it needs to be.

And finally, my plan for races is to carry co2 with a mini crank bros pump as back up on longer single loop races (so I am not walking 4 miles back to the trailhead). For non race rides, I always carry a pump. BTW, I found the mini crank bros pump does not work great for road tires, even using the switch to high pressure. Or maybe it is just me. I just couldn't get it to fully pump the tire up. It worked well enough to get me home, though, and that was the most important thing.

[CRAIG2]

That's too bad. I had a couple of pints of black valium for (I mean with) lunch today. :D

Oh and BTW, Guinness is dispensed with a mix of nitrogen and C02, but never air.


Maybe I should fill my tires with Guinness then? Craig gets a flat, we all get toasted - yeahhh!! :) Mmmmm.... black valium - my favorite!

[hophead]

Maybe I should fill my tires with Guinness then? Craig gets a flat, we all get toasted - yeahhh!! :) Mmmmm.... black valium - my favorite!
Well then you should come to Schaeffer for our Thursday evening ride which concludes at Dogfish Head. You don't even have to drink from your tires.

[CRAIG2]

I might take you up on that some time. Though, I work in Arlington and also lead the Thurdsay Wakefield casual ride...

[bikerRob]

8/02/06 >> Yesterday I finally got the (Innovations) Ultraflate Plus I ordered (along with a bunch of extra 12gm cartridges) from Performance. They send these things super slow snail mail, took over a week to get it. Anyway, first thing I do is deflate one of my tires, pop the (included) 16gm cartridge in and fired the tube up to see how well it would work. The inflator worked fine but after emptying the cartridge I couldn't help but notice that the tire was no where near as hard as I usually like them. That was when I noticed the fine print on the box that stated that a 16gm cart. will only fill a 26" tire to about 30psi.... :mad: ... Okay, so it's good enough to get you going but it still sucks. I'm probably just going to use it anyway only if I'm in a particular hurry or it happens to be super hot and I don't feel like sitting on the ground sweating and jerking (..I mean ) pumping away with a mini pump. Perhaps I'll just start off using the pump till my jerking hand (...I mean arm ) gets tired and finish it off with one of the 12gm cartridges. (*Sorry, but I still have the image of that video that someone posted recently that showed the guy sitting on the ground...um...stroking up the flat tire.. :D ) Oh, almost forgot...the air in the tire held for about 48hrs before I noticed it had gotten a little soft...not that I really care. ;) *correction*...16gm cartridge is suppose to inflate to 40psi but no way did it come any where near that!

[jamiejones]

I'm buying some stuff from performance this week and I'm torn over which mini pump to buy. I have CO2 already, but I don't want to rely on them. Which pump would you recommend, they all got mixed reviews on mtbr.

[yueq]

I'm buying some stuff from performance this week and I'm torn over which mini pump to buy. I have CO2 already, but I don't want to rely on them. Which pump would you recommend, they all got mixed reviews on mtbr.

Topeak (mini, mountain, road) Morph