building Womens skills for the beginner- Where?

[jdpaddle]

Hi all,
Looking for some input from Women for my wife. She rides the road on a road bike a good bit and the canal on her MTB a good bit. Clipped in with both. Clipps set VERY lite.

We went on vacation to the mountains of N Carolina. We rode at Tsali- Right loop. You almost have to be familiar with the area. I personally cant imagine an easier off road experience. It is smooth hard packed single track with virtually no roots or rocks. Very easy riding IMO.

So, off we go. Me pulling our 5 YO on a freeloader attatched to my seat post. We do well, he loves it. We stay safe. I figured if I could deal with him and the added weight, weight shifts as he moved around etc, she would be fine. More than fine even. I was wrong. She was a little spooked by how the terrrain dropped off from the trail on one side- something I hadn't anticipated. I only remembered one area that looked a little sketchy from a previous ride I did there and I figured we would walk that. Again being very safety concsious with the little one along and knowing my wife isn't as aggressive as I.

So that got in her head right away and had her overly tentative. Its not good to ride tense. Next problem was when the few roots did come, they messed with her. I figured she knows how to square off railroad tracks on the road and get over them, the small roots shouldn't be a problem. But the real problem came with Mud puddles. She apparently was trying to go around them and slipping on the edge. Yeah, I know the right way to do a mud puddle. I was leading so wasn't able to see where I could give her pointers. One of these puddles took her out and she toppled off the trail and down about ten feet. Bummer.

My question- Where are there really easy, non threatening, off road places for her to get a grasp on some of the basics. Many have recommended to start on the road- shes done a good bit of that and the canal. Is Schaeffer as easy as Tsali? Are there better places to go? With in about 45 miles of Hagerstown/ Frederick area is best. Any other tips? What worked for you? Thanks in advance.

[DMarchy1]

Schaeffer Farms would likely not be the best place to introduce a new off road rider to the local type of trails. Especially if the rider is predisposed to being timid with obstacles. Based on where you live, Black hills, and Lower magruder would be more mild for a newbie. If you are willing to drive 45- 60 minutes. Rosaryville State Park in Upper Marlboro would be worth the drive. JUst 10 miles east of Andrews Air Force Base. 10 Miles of single track. No rocks, very few roots, very Few logs across the path. This trail is all about flow. It is very aerobic, but not quite difficult. Regards David Marchyshyn. Rosaryville Trail Liaison. Cell Phone 301-509-3191. Feel free to call me with any questions. Dave.

[CRAIG2]

I'd also recommend checking to see if there are any upcoming skills clinics, and / or beginner friendly rides with the RLAG groups. I think Tom (Snot Rocket on the forums) holds a weekly skills ride, though, the location might not be ideal. Start small, otherwise you'll / she'll do nothing for her confidence.

If she is in reasonable shape, try Schaeffer. Yeah, it might be more towards intermediate than beginner, but what intimidates her she can walk over. Or try. Up to her. It will also give you something of a challenge as it sounds like you're more of an experienced rider. Schaeffer will offer a variety of challenges, from the beginner to expert rider including rolling hills, creek crossings, roots, log rolls (most are very doable), and a few rocks here and there.

Good luck - enjoy!

Craig

[liznotter]

Ride Like a Girl and Princeton Sports (http://www.princetonsports.com) will be holding a three-session clinic for beginner women riders. They will be held at 6 pm on July 19, 22, and August 2; the first clinic will be at the Columbia Store and the following two will be at Rockburn Park (next to Avalon). We will be covering the basics, including: equipment, rules of the trail, bike handling, climbing and descending, and overcoming obstacles. And it's Free!

Please contact me if you have any questions, or visit the Ride Like a Girl (http://www.ridelikeagirl.org) website. We also have a couple of upcoming rides (the Wakefield race course on July 8; Little Bennet on August 5), check the website for the schedule.

As for trails appropriate for beginning riders, I think Schaeffer is a little too intermediate to start on (it's where I learned and it scared me to death). Cedarville (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1207) and Rosaryville (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1198) are wonderful, but pretty far from you. You might want to try Black Hill Regional Park, I think those trails are doable for a beginner, with a little walking. And Seneca Greenway (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1378) is also a good bet, few major obstacles, just some climbing.

Liz

[Mrs. Outlaw]

We also have a couple of upcoming rides (the Wakefield race course on July 8; Little Bennet on July 15), check the website for the schedule.


Hey Liz, I thought the Little Bennett ride was scheduled for August 5th. It's listed twice on the RLAG website (7/15 and 8/5).

Julie

[liznotter]

My bad, fixed it both places.

Liz

[mandsmarie]

as a HUGE wimp w/a boyfriend who has no fear, I'm quite sympathetic. I highly recommend Rosaryville and Cedarville even though it's a longer car drive.

[mabagal]

as a HUGE wimp w/a boyfriend who has no fear, I'm quite sympathetic. I highly recommend Rosaryville and Cedarville even though it's a longer car drive.

Agree. Especially for beginning mtn bikers, you want them to like, and eventually love biking as much as you do.... going to more technical trails may turn new riders off. Rosaryville and Cedarville seem to get new riders excited about biking.

If you do Rosaryville, the close to 10 mile loop may be too much, so plan to take a shorter loop, or do an 'out and back'.

A few pointers, from experience, take it slow, take lots of breaks and stop to try things that may look scary. If you take her to ride with a group, don't ride to fast or put too much pressure on trying obstacles -- this can be overwhelming.

[bacalhau]

[QUOTE=jdpaddle]Hi all,
Looking for some input from Women for my wife. She rides the road on a road bike a good bit and the canal on her MTB a good bit. Clipped in with both. Clipps set VERY lite.

We went on vacation to the mountains of N Carolina. We rode at Tsali- Right loop. You almost have to be familiar with the area. I personally cant imagine an easier off road experience. It is smooth hard packed single track with virtually no roots or rocks. Very easy riding IMO."

Hi there,
funny thing I just come from riding at Tsali this past weekend. Yes indeed it is a very easy trail, and it has a mid-sized descent slightly carved in the center, that might cause some issues to a newbie. Aside that, the descent from the lookout going clockwise is also a litle technical.
I did both, left and right loop clockwise - which seems to have harder climbs, but overall, it is a boring trail. Aside the lookout, and the off-camber turns taht is about it.
Rosaryville might be a good choice, and has only a few logs and logpiles. Cedarville is even easier and smother with less traffic.
Next time you go to NC, you have to try Bent Creek and E. Slickrock trails

[Snot-Rocket]

Hi all,
Looking for some input from Women for my wife. She rides the road on a road bike a good bit and the canal on her MTB a good bit. Clipped in with both. Clipps set VERY lite.

Any other tips? What worked for you? Thanks in advance.

A couple of considerations- I think we had a thread on these details somewhere???

1. Per my observations the key detail for a easy transition from road/trails to Singletrack is more bike handling skills (yes, and basic fitness- but doesn't sound like issue here). Per my personal experience- my Spousal Unit did tons of urban excursions and once she started to whip through tights spots, pass other riders aggressively on her MTB I felt that her bike handlings skills and confidence were high enough for the transition to dirt. I guess the detail I'm trying to illustrate is that if your Spouse isn't comfortable in tight scenarios on road/trail then singletrack is just worse.

2. Don't assume easy trails are good introductory trails- I'd consider benign "single track" as a good introduction to "single-track" not MTB skillz- different detail.

3. Here are some basic MTB/Bike Handling skillz to discuss and drill w/ your spousal unit. Granted a key point- er, no deliberate offense to the ladies- but women are pyschotic in general (I'm sure this goes both ways) :p - so you need to be very ecouraging and postively focused when providing constructive input/feedback. This is exponentially important cause you have relations w/ the student!!!! Basically, instead of saying you "boned this up baby" - find something positive to say like "good effort, maybe try this a bit more and we'll be almost there- blah, blah." The key is to train your mind to be very supportive- if you have any hidden thoughts like, "WTH - Over, etc?" This will become a very peronalized session that is just no fun!!!! I'm not joking here- if you don't feel up to it, then find a clinic and dump her off there. It would be best if you take the clinic first and then follow up with her so you have a reference to the quality and blocks of instructions. Anyway some basics to cover:

A. Bottom Back position- but elevated to rear, knees and elbows loose- I teach this drill w/ a graduation event of curb bashing at low-speeds. Don't recommend this- too tired to explain- but if you can find a 2-4" log- a low speed approach w/ no action but solid relaxed BB position, wheel angle of incidence at 90-degrees, she can bash right over it no problemo... Explain to her that this is the primary MTB position at speeds, descending and when in doubt- if she can't do this comfortably- then she needs to practice and apply this on urban excursions until it is a thoughtless drill. I literally rode through a ditch w/ eye's closed to emphasize this point to my wife about passive body position and relative control (scared the crap out of self- but it worked).

B. Basic Descending- like find a friendly grassy, open, hill. Teach how to descend under control, stop on hill and dismount safely. I teach this skill per a series of iterative drillzs (all form bottom-Back position):
i. Front Brake only- slow approach to transition to descent- have folks feather front brake to near stopping up to transition and then free roll down the hill...
ii. The first step, but as you release brake of front tire, introduce the rear brake- so a dead slow transition into descent.
ii. Finally, the first two steps followed by re-introducing front brake for an arse-slow descent under control and dismounting.

As you review the skillz and do the drillz talk about what to consider and look at per evaluating descents, blah, blah.

I teach less other skillz, but find these two are the absolute most critical for beginners. There are many variations to the Bottom-Back and curb-bashing drills- pm me and we can phone-chat if you have questions.

Ultimately- most beginners have two major challenges to learning MTB:

1. A bike control issue. They don't understand how much to trust their bikes and how to control their bikes in technical situations (roots, logs and descents) Thus introducing the basic drills/concepts in friendly situations for general applications is a good start. Emphasize- When in Doubt- Dismount, encouraging Hiking and Biking if required...
2. An Environment Familiarization Issues. Before I took my Wife out to Accotink, local trail, in the AO - we did a hike there so she could have a visual reference of what single track is all about. Her initial impressions were she would never ride these trails- she can ride them no problem today.

Post drilling the basics we did some rides on short, but-arse easy loops at Wakefield w/ a bunch of friends who also were beginners so we could have fun, peer support and enable the practicing of the fundamentals on a friendly trail. In our area- Wakefield is great. Urban setting reduces trail anxiety. Humping way out to some trail puts more pressure on a weenie- like we drove WTH out here so you better ride dammit!!! Anyway, as rider confidence and demonstrated performance kicked in I'd add a variation to the loop, started to extend out to harder trails and more.

I must confess- I'm wasn't as patient of a weenie as I was then. However, so that I could have fun on rides- I built a low geared rigid SS (32x20)...this forced me to ride slower and a Rigid-SS made all trails fun and interesting- plus how I got into SS so much.

Regardless- for a Partner/Spouse trying to get the other into MTB or any other venue- if your goal is selfish (like maximize your riding opportunities) you will likely fail. Your goal has to be that this is something you think your spouse would enjoy and that you can both enjoy together- if you got this part right, finding the patience and fun in the Journey will come easier (not easy- but easier).

Blah,

[Mrs. Outlaw]

Granted a key point- er, no deliberate offense to the ladies- but women are pyschotic in general

Hmm... when I first read this I was a little surprised you'd say something like this on the women's forum. But then this past weekend I had a horrible case of nerves over a casual women's ride. Once I got there I realized I wasn't the only one! The ride ended up being one of the most low pressure rides I've ever been on. We tackled some sketchy trails and tough climbs but everyone was cheering each other on and so supportive, it was a fantastic ride! So I started thinking maybe Snot's on to something here, we can be a little bit on the pyschotic side worrying about everything from being to slowest rider in the group to wrecking in from of other people! Which is why I highly recommend newer women riders try to hook up for other women. I know that if it wasn't for the awesome group of women that I've ridden with the past couple of years, I may have given up.

JDPaddle - I'm leading a casual women's ride at Little Bennett on Saturday, August 5th. The terrain is fairly smooth and alternates between single and double track. There are a few climbs and a few rooty sections but overall nothing too crazy. And Little Bennett doesn't have the technical log sections like Schaeffer. Little Bennett is about 25 minutes south of Frederick.

Julie

[Snot-Rocket]

Hmm... when I first read this I was a little surprised you'd say something like this on the women's forum.

I'm very tongue in check dontchaknow and often like baiting folks per strange twists in my sense of humor- I was talking from the perspective of a happily married weenie who at moments recognizes there are gender differences which are beyond comprehension and there is no point fretting over these details and just accepting them. As an irrational response [per my self-joking modality] I opted to articulate this distinction in how different sexes think by obviously associated the difference to a deficiency in gals mental state :p .

I have a few choice words for men also (and self) ;) .

Per women and MTB- I don't remotely think women are psychotic (that's reserved for in marriage dontchaknow ;) ). I personally like beginners of all disposition and in general I have observed that men and women are the same mentally respective to level of apprehensions about their performance and safety- however, for men, well there are just a butt-load more men- so they have more role models, more riding partners, more weenies that they can relate/identify w/ and ease their journey to MTB addiction. Gals, don't have this luxury- either they are the sole adventurer and when they do run into other women riders the sample size isn't so robust they will necessarily find gals they can identify with to ease their way. Women are also more comfortable wearing their apprehension on their sleeves so their emotional state is more obvious- guys, well as I grew up- we learned to disguise any feelings/emotions that smelled like "chicken" and developed many complex foils to hide our true emotionally turbulent state...

Ideally this outlines my perspective- I don't seek to offend, just annoy- it is like active sonar for folks I actually find annoying who miss most of my points and focus on the annoying so since I annoyed them I know they would annoy me and thus I establish an annoying dynamic that allows me to interact peacefully socially in a world of annoying people...

BRAAP!

[gomogo]

Snot,

Do you ever slow down the mental cogs and let them cool off? I usu. have to read your posts twice in order to keep up. You must be terror on a bike, man, terror!

mo

[Snot-Rocket]

You must be terror on a bike, man, terror!

...SLOW! I think there wuz a time when I was otay- but now, slow, slow and tubby :confused: !!! I not a true cyclist- just a casual enthusiast these days.

Do you ever slow down the mental cogs and let them cool off?

Can't stop churning! Every breathe you take in life is just one less then you are obligated- so I tend to think it is a good thing to embrace every moment, detail, nuance and seek to understand all the grey space between things- not sure if there is a point, but it is interesting...and makes for good conversation when you are drunk!

BRRAAAPP!