Patapsco Jump Park?

[BikerMiker]

Sorry, but please check out my blog for updates on Patapsco and some big news! Pics of the jumps, if you've never seen 'em.

mike
www.citybikesmike.blogspot.com

[redneckp3ngu1n]

W00t Congrats on saving the trail. atleast untill u get a new part started

[ianm]

wow I would have put money on that whole section being history. It is way to much on that creek jump. At first whom ever was building those trails was doing a good job, then a group started to get alittle too risky on them, making the jumps too big etc.

[urbaindk]

I finally made it out there last night. I was pretty impressed. About 4 of us sessioned the area for about an hour and a half and never got bored. Nice berms and kickers. That stream gap isn't as bad as I was expecting it to be. I was expecting some ridiculously, monstrous thing from the way it was described online. There were one or two jumps/drops I would describe as sketchy, poorly built or just plain dangerous. Everything else was pretty nice (even with the lack of transitions).

The most humbling moment of the evening was when two guys on rigid 29" singlespeeds came hauling ass down the trail hitting all the jumps, including the creek gap. I was impressed to say the least.

Thanks for working towards keeping it open and building new stuff, Mike et al!

[pirate]

I rode out there again this evening... So much fun. I agree, though. At very least, a few of those jumps could use a transition. Like the big assed one that is just dirt built up against a giant log. (probably at least 36" high) That one seems a little sketchy to me. But, what do I know. I'm a newbie when it comes to that kind of riding. :)

[ianm]

You know what it comes down to is that trail building would be fine if we didn't live in a world where people do stupid things like ride a trail with jumps and other things they are not skilled enough to ride, wreck, then want to blame someone else for their bad decision. Don't get me wrong its important to work with the park, but the truth is we have to work with the park because of idiots of the past and present making bad decision.

[pirate]

You know what it comes down to is that trail building would be fine if we didn't live in a world where people do stupid things like ride a trail with jumps and other things they are not skilled enough to ride, wreck, then want to blame someone else for their bad decision. Don't get me wrong its important to work with the park, but the truth is we have to work with the park because of idiots of the past and present making bad decision.


Ouch!!! Are you trying to imply that I (or others) shouldn't be out there trying to learn and get better? How is freeriding/dirt jumping going to progress if people don't push their limits once in a while?

EDIT: BTW... I didn't try that huge jump. It just seemed a little too big for me.

[BikerMiker]

The conversations that we kept on having was 'if we built something, would it be here and would it be this?" We kept answering 'no.' I enjoy it as well but I take it for what it is and try to enjoy it.

I hope that you all take the chance to build some new stuff with me when it comes.

mike

[ianm]

No no im not trying to say dont test yourself, or dont try something new. Just dont take the park to court if you hurt yourself. In the past people, usually not even serious riders, will hurt themselves and then proceed to take a park to court.

[ianm]

I understand it is what is and thats just the way the world today works, all im saying is that it works that way because of the legal repercussions.

[urbaindk]

'if we built something, would it be here and would it be this?" We kept answering 'no.'

Yeah, I kinda had the same thoughts. Some of the lines just lead to nowhere. Jumps shouldn't necessarily be jumps just to have something to jump. Ultimately add to the overall flow of the trail. Most of the jumps aren't high enough to need transitions but still they would be nice. It's kind of like whoever went out and built the stuff only did half the job.

I kind of like the location. Its an open area, without much undergrowth, well shaded with trees over head. There's something that's just cool about cruising down a trail hitting berms and jumps in the woods like that. (Think Return of the Jedi - Speeders chasing each other through the forests of Endor) I doubt that same feel could be achieved out in the field behind the pavilions. Plus without shade it will be hot as hell. Jumps like cool shady places too. Out in the sun they tend dry up and then crack and fall apart. Plus with no tree cover, rain will beat directly down on them rather than trickling down through the trees. In other words, they will require much more maintenance.

Just some food for thought.

[pirate]

There's something that's just cool about cruising down a trail hitting berms and jumps in the woods like that. (Think Return of the Jedi - Speeders chasing each other through the forests of Endor).

If you like that aspect of the trail, you oughta see "Powerline" at Snowshoe! It has HUGE, fast berms, and almost every jump is a big tabletop style jump. Really fast. Really fun. :D

[BikerMiker]

We are looking for a site that is partially exposed (so it will dry quickly and be warm in the winter) and some in the woods (for the summer/rain issues).

I'm with you on the woods issues which is why we are looking for that type of site. I'm a big endor-trails type of guy.

mike

[pirate]

We are looking for a site that is partially exposed (so it will dry quickly and be warm in the winter) and some in the woods (for the summer/rain issues).

I'm with you on the woods issues which is why we are looking for that type of site. I'm a big endor-trails type of guy.

mike

Hmmm... Maybe somewhere off of the Morning Choice trail? That's the only area that I can think of that's partially open. Or, maybe over on the Baltimore County side near the powerlines?

Edit: Maybe that's not a powerlines area, but it seems like one. I have to adimit, I don't know that side of the park that well.

[BikerMiker]

Decisions, decisions...

We are scoping locations now, so if you have Google Earth, email me some .jpgs.

mike

[GBone]

Any progress made on scoping new sites for a FR\DJ Section? There is a trail off the road between the Monistary and the Tire Park that ultimatley ends near the train tracks just above the Swingin' Bridge that would be a great choice. This trail already has a nice grade so you can carry a ton of speed, it currently offers a few jumps, but it needs a bit of help with drainage. I can easily envision a few monster gaps, table tops, and hip jumps. Pleanty of down trees to use a base for building doubles.

I can enlist a small army of guys that would gladly assist in the planning and building of this sort of thing as we spend a majority of our time at landing Rd, Drugs, and some other discreet areas that offer FRing in the park.

[Pie]

I'm curious....what's really wrong with the Patapsco jump trails that would lead someone to say they need to be completely relocated? I've read that they are "half assed" and "not where I would put them" and so on, but aside from a subjective critque what else is wrong with them according to BikerMiker and/or the park management? As I said, I'm just curious because there seems to be plenty of negative feedback about them but not one concise list of problems.

I've ridden them several times and here's what I have to offer as for specific fixable problems...

1. Jumps big enough to ride backwards... It's dangerous to have a trail that can be ridden uphill by XC riders. They ride in slow packs, with heads down usually, and a collision is bound to happen. Also, I've watched a dozen riders lift the front wheel over the edges of the jumps then pull the back wheel up and over. This isn't good for jumps. This makes a case for doubles, or least tables, and a route around the jump line itself.

2. Kickers are too short... I could be wrong (lord knows my jumping form sucks) but I've heard others say the kickers are too abrupt and tend to throw your rear in odd directions. The last big kicker before the stream gap is notorious for this.

3. Last kicker before stream gap is too close to stream gap.... Simple really, it's just too close

4. Kickers and berms backed with wood... It should be done with rocks if it's going to last, but that said there's no point in removing the berms that are there and currently standing.

5. Trails to nowhere... Obviously need to be finished.

6. Some low branches to the face right before a couple kickers.... Distracting. Need simple pruning.

7. Big double at top of hill by logs has kicker aimed at tree on right... I've seen it ridden successfully but you have to be REALLY on your game not to get it wrong and plow into the big tree on the right. Needs to be re-aimed.

8. Jumps to flat... It's been said. But yes they can be done, however they don't make for the most pleasant ride.

9. Kicker lips need work... Some of the jumps have flattened tops or at a minimum rounded nonexistant lips. There's no easy fix here as they'll either need constant maintanence (and no XC riders plowing them in reverse) or something more expensive like hollow-centered sidewalk pavers buried just under the surface of their dirt faces (Whistler does this).

So in closing just so no one gets the wrong idea, what else is the problem over there? Specifically, what's wrong with the location? What's wrong with the jumps? What's wrong with the flow of the trails? What have I missed?

[BikerMiker]

Ok, I'll go slowly here. The one and only thing that matters is that the trails were created in a state park without following the procedures in place for creating new trail, let alone an expert-level trail. That is the only thing that matters for necessitating (and supporting) destruction. Any discussion about their location, design, construction, etc, is purely academic.

But since you asked...

You gave a pretty good list of reasons yourself. All of that plus: bad sight lines, poorly built berms, no environmental sensitivity in terms of the physical impact on the location and the impact on the stream bed, no historic sensitivity (any old stuff out there that could get destroyed?), the lack of transition into the area in terms of an 'advanced trail section' qualifier, deteriorating logs (that are getting harder and harder to ride safely), no maintenance regimen on constructed features that will exponentially increase liability and no mapping so people don't know where they are in an emergency (some of us do, some don't).

The existence of the trails is REALLY bad if they are non-sanctioned with constructed features AND the park knows about it and keeps it up. Right now, their liability could actually cause mountain bikers to be kicked out of the park if someone gets hurt and sues. MORE would be named in a lawsuit, as would Dan, Jeff, Eric, Joe and I.

These are not my opinion and are not subjective, as you suggest. These are all valid criticisms that me, as trail liaison, in a predicament. Do I back the park because I have bought into the whole 'approved trail construction' thing as MORE liaison or do I act as a rider and complain about a lack of this stuff in Patapsco and the demand for it. I managed to work with my partners at PVSP (Dan, Eric, Jeff and Joe) and we came up with the plan to keep what is already there (tough sell) AND work towards building something new in an approved area that would include skinnies, doubles, tables, step-ups, drops to transition, berms, pump track, etc.

At this point, we are waiting to hear back from the park on some ideas for other locations in the park for our 'expert skills area.' There is a good chance that we will be making 'alterations' on the jump trail in the Fall (not tearing it down, but making it better).

So, make sure you pay attention and show up when we ask for support. We are lucky that we have a team of mtn bikers out there to do trailwork and attend all of the meetings. However, we need to get a lot more people involved out there for the upcoming transition we are going to endure at Patapsco. We'll need to regularly (bi-weekly) inspect and maintain the new skills area on top of all of the regular work we do out there. We'll need to raise money for land, lumber, dirt, shovels, fencing, etc when we build it. We'll also need lots of sweat to get it done.

Stay tuned, and plan on lots of work. All invited, all expected!

mike

[Pie]

Thanks for explaning the rationale and reasons behind the issue.

I didn't mean to imply that being unsanctioned and illegally built were subjective reasons. What I meant is that reasons such as "bad flow" is on the subjective side and that I was hoping you would detail more exact (objective) reasons behind the story at Patapsco, which you did indeed. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm definitely interested in seeing how this situation turns out from the (ultimately selfish) rider's perspective of "is it fun to ride, will I drive 25 mins from Baltimore, will it be fun to ride even after I can ride the whole line(s)". I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of at Patapsco and 495 which will act as a barometer for my future involvement level with MORE.

Thanks again for the info.

[BikerMiker]

Roger that. I didn't like MORE when I joined back in 1998, but they were the only OTHER game in town (I joined MAMBO as well). I decided to get involved because I wanted MORE to serve MY needs. I can point to some specific examples of where MY PERSONAL involvement made trails that were more fun to ride for ME at Schaeffer and tons at Patapsco. I understand that rationale, 100%. There's nothing wrong with it. I probably would just send MORE a check out of the goodness of my heart if I didn't find a good outlet for my selfish intentions.

When I started with MORE, there was ZERO presence at Patapsco. Eric, Jeff and MAMBO were doing some stuff, but they are REALLY small and also had stuff north of Balt (resevoirs) to take care of (I went to their meetings as well). I complained about a lack of MD involvement (as did others) and now we have a TON of representation in MORE. There used to be a few dozen MD members, now we have more MORE parks and land and members. It wasn't me, obviously, but I was one of those people...

I still get mad at MORE board members, liaisons and other officers and I let them know it, I just choose not to post it on the site so that when I fly off and am wrong, I only look stoopid to a small number of people instead of the public at large.

So keep the comments productive and plentiful. I'm not scared and am happy to answer any questions or involve anyone who wants to be involved. This is a lot of work, a labor of love, to be sure, but you don't get Member of the Year (2002) for nothing...

mike
iroc

[pirate]

Here's another question... Are we "allowed" to work on the jumps that are currently out there, or do we just have to ride them as they are. A few of them could use a little fixing.

[BikerMiker]

I think it's ok to 'keep things up' but please resist the urge to build more or go higher. If you are going to be out there, pull some deadfall towards the big open areas to try and establish some flow instead of all of the braids out there.

This isn't the official word but...

mike

[Pie]

Another question...


With regards to environmental impact, the jump trails (the two that actually link together) were there prior to the jumps being constructed, correct? I ask because I've seen info that seems to imply that the jumps themselves have some secondary greater amount of environmental impact upon the park. Is this the case that's being made?

Also, what is involved in an environmental impact study as it would pertain to a place like Patapsco? How much sediment can a typical trail heap into the local waterway over time once the top soil is removed and the trail is on the rocky layer?

Where can I get some info on this type of thing because I would like to A) read it to be better informed and B) judge for myself whether rogue trail building is the scurge to mother nature that it is sometimes made out to be (I'm very much pro-environment mind you).

I've read through the Whistler and IMBA materials that are around on the internet and it seems to me (and this is a bit of a digression) that in the case of jumps there's a catch 22 when people talk about building them with rock/dir versus wood/dirt. Wood (deadfall) doesn't last years, however it's readily available and, if fresh, disturbs little in the way of woodland creature habitats. Rock however, lasts and lasts but also requires finding rocks which if harvested from streams disturbs the fauna living under them and/or can create more erosion if you were to pull the rocks from a stream itself. And then there's the option of using Home Depot wood which if treated is bad for everything, and if not treated, seems no better than using deadfall insofar as it's more expensive and will rot just the same.

But I digress....

Thanks for any info!

[riderx]

mike
iroc
Iroc? It's been been a while since I've seen you. Did you grow a mullet and a molester moustache (http://www.mulletsgalore.com/classifications/01/02camaromullet.html)? :confused:

[BikerMiker]

The environmental impact is not about whether these is impact, it's a measurement of how much. And it's not really a measurement... The state (DNR) looks at all kinds of different stuff including local flora, sensitive ecosystems, fauna habitat, etc. Trails always impact the area, technically, but there is usually not a 'destruction' as such. Also, there is usually no measureable impact when you look at it in comparison to Landing Rd, for example.

The only point that I have been able to really understand is that there is a process for building trails that the DNR uses and we submit to that process. Now, the process is not run by the local park staff and is subject to all kinds of bureaucracy (as you can imagine) and any potential EIS (environmental impact statement) just opens up a can of worms for the 'no more trails/NIMBY' green crowd, usually. See what happened with the paved trail extension on the NE side of the river, upstream from the bridge. Just one WACKO dude got the ear of the Comptroller and he gave the park staff an EARFUL when the money went to the Board of Public Works for final approval.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the 'environment,' as it were. I'm all for protecting our natural areas, streams, woodlands and all of the stuff in there. In my opinion, the best way to protect something is to create a constituency that enjoys the land in its natural form (with trails) and will motivate to protect it politically and physically. I also try to put things into perspective when it comes to THAT HUGE A$$ BRIDGE that takes Interstate 95 RIGHT THROUGH THE PARK! Oh yeah, and we run these huge trains through there as well! The little trails that we are building (and the illegal ones) really have ZERO impact on the environment at large (or at small, as it were). Landing Rd drainage/runoff carries more crap into the park than any 20" wide swath that we can carve (including log drops).

As a side note, I hiked the trails after the rains (see blog) with my son and the Cascade trail looked WAY worse than the jump trail, in terms of erosion, wetness, holding water, etc.

Again, we have all agreed to play by the rules in Patapsco and sometimes rules, as out of focus as they can be, go against you, sometimes they go for you. The good news and the real perspective that I have and that I recommend people have is that we are in no danger of losing any of the 30-odd miles of rad trail that we have out there to ride on.

These are some great questions and this is a really meaningful discussion, I think. Does this add to it? I hope to see you all out at the trail maintenance days this Fall.

mike

[BikerMiker]

I have a long and sordid history of making fun of rednecks and their cars. There's the old IROC jokes about certain nationalities of diminished mental capacity 'out cruisin.' I have been known to use the verbal joke of 'I rock like the Z car' as a nod to the IROC-Z from days of old that only dudes our age and older will remember.

Basically, I'm a bad haircut away from being 100% redneck. I'm too liberal and drive what has been termed an 'alternative lifestyle' car but, at heart, I'm probably in the high 80th percentile... I know what a trot line is (see:crabbing), I drink High Life (with and without crabs), I can grill damn near anything without reading about it in fancy books and I swear WAY too much when I talk.

But thanks for asking Joe. I'll have RickyD photoshop me up a mullet and get it out there.

WHERE YOU AT, RICKYD?!

mike

[punga]

I would like to point out that while the rest of us in high school drove Chevy Citations or whatever else we could afford, Mike rode around in his Audi 5000....

punga!

[BikerMiker]

Damn, I look good...

By the way, I only drove it for one year, it was a diesel and MOST of the time I was driving around in an oldsmobuick wagon, punk...

Punga sure went through those citations like they were bikes! Heh...

mike

[redneckp3ngu1n]

heh. mike answer these 3 grilling questions for me

Charcoal or propane?

Chimney or lighterfluid?

Dry or wet ribs?

if you get all 3 correct you are a certified redneck!!! You must know its not about the hair or the car but what goes on in your brain that counts. If you like nascar and love grilling but dont want a mullet or a camaro then you are enough redneck to earn the title redneckbikermiker!

[punga]

I rode the jumps on Sunday for the second time (I don't get out there very often these days). There were only two I didn't attempt, the 4'+ one over a downed tree (would the swing arm have broken a second time, who knows, but I didn't want find out!) and the gap jump over the stream (psyched myself out before I hit it). I did manage to case one landing and flat a tire, but other wise most were smooth as butter.

I did see what Mike referred to about sight lines and run outs. Things got a little hairy on a few landings.

punga!

[redneckp3ngu1n]

so are there landings over the bigger jumps like the 4 footer or are you forced to land to flat?

[pirate]

so are there landings over the bigger jumps like the 4 footer or are you forced to land to flat?

The four footer does not have a transition. It is to flat.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

ouch. they need atleast a small tranny

[punga]

so are there landings over the bigger jumps like the 4 footer or are you forced to land to flat?
The 4 footer was to flat, which was a little scary when I got to lip. You need to be a lightweight or a big bike to land that sucker without flat spotting your rims or worse.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

plus you probably get atleast another foot of air off the lip of the jump. jesus that needs to be fixed

[Pie]

Thanks for the comments Mike.

I tend to agree with your comments regarding what causes real environmental impacts. Being a treehugger at the core I'm always disheartened by what I think is misplaced aggression by [filthy hippies] environmentalists who, I feel, target groups like cyclists because they're easy prey at the bottom of the "wrong do'ers" list that should obviously be topped by home developers (McMansions anyone?), highway developers, and other big polluters. The problem of course is the aforementioned all have good lawyers and can talk their way out of anything while cyclists may even half agree that we're sometimes bad for the environment, and as a result not putting up a good fight to protect our own rights.



I haven't ridden the jump line much lately. I really think that gully running to the left of the big 4'-to-flat jump should be utilized in the future....if the trails remain there of course. All it needs is a nice fast spot to drop in towards the top and on the opposite bank build a 6' tall wallride to hit as you come surfing out the other side.

The fact that most of the jumps are to flat landings isn't such a big deal because the majority of them are small, but there's definitely a few that need landing transitions, notably the 4 footer mentioned before.

I also wouldn't mind a nice double, say 2' high, between the first lefthand berm and the looooong righthand berm, over on the trail that starts with the sketchy 7' double. You carry a ton of speed coming out of that first lefthand berm.

Oh wait I don't think I'm supposed to be suggesting new things for Dead Trails Walking....




It needs some hip jumps too. I don't know how to hip so I need something small to learn on! ;)

[BikerMiker]

I'm with you. That's why I am trying to get the new technical area open so we can have nice rolling doubles with good sight lines and nice roll-in so people can feel comfortable learning.

mike

[redneckp3ngu1n]

i know alot of people (including myself) are alittle nurvose trying to learn to jump on doubles. What if you made half doubles (the jump has 2 foot gap then 2 foot table on the landing. kind of like a landing ramp that evil kanevil uses) This might be approved by the park more than just doubles because there is less chance of some idiot caseing and then suing the park/builders because he broke his back rim trying something out of his ability level.

[Pie]

Learner jumps, yes a good idea.

They have a name though.... it's called a table top. Hehe. Learning to jump on table top jumps is the way to go because even if you come up completely short you land on something. A tabletop jump (for those who don't know) being a kicker, an angled landing, and the space in between them filled with dirt and flattened on the top.

Has anyone witnessed (or know of) someone hip the weird little jump/righthand turn thing that's just before the two small jumps (up hill of the stream gap)? I just roll it but wondered if I should be trying to hip it.

[BikerMiker]

There has been more work done on those jumps, most likely yesterday before lunch. There are a few more berms and the jump/drops from the Norris Ln side are built up. I know that the ladies of the Patapsco Trail Crew are members of the MORE forums so I'm hoping they skip this...

There's a good chance that the new construction on the jumps and additional berms will cause them to be destroyed. We had an agreement that we would do our best to keep the construction under control and somebody goes 'phase 2' on us. I hope this doesn't get the bulldozer started up...

Again, if you know specifically who is doing this, please call me or email me offline so that I can have a little conversation with said person(s). I'm not going to get anyone in trouble, I just need to have some sort of understanding in place as we move this stuff forward.

The destruction of the Lewis and Clarke stuff will be tied in to the destruction of the 'Drug' trail, I can assure you that.

So, good news, bad news. Here's hoping.

mike

[Pie]

Looks like I'll be riding Patapsco this week to scope out the new stuff before it gets plowed.

Will have to take the hardtail though as the big[ger] bike will be without a fork since someone just bought my 66 and my 888 won't be here until later this week. I predict at least one exploded rear hub on my hardtail by the end of things unless I get the big bike put back together or someone has made trannies (or I lose 50 pounds in my sleep).

I suspect it's going to be a tough sell to get people to stop building until they lose their work at least once. What you're saying makes sense obviously, certainly from the logical side of things, but the lure of new terrain is just too strong for some.

It's an addiction.

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Has anyone posted signs or flyers up there to let the builders and riders know about the situation? If not there is a possibility that the builders dont know that they are about to get their jumps distroyed and will keep building untill its too late.

[JBling]

I went over to check out the "new" jumps and berms and I am a little confused. The work seemed more like maintenance to me than new jumps. There was some berm work before the small hip jump that may have been new but it seemed to improve the line by making it unlikely you will smack the small tree after the jump (which I have accomplished on more than one occasion).

I would like some clarification if possible on what is acceptable maintenace in the freeride area. The face of the double jump at the top of the freeride area really needs attention and some other items need attention as well.

[spa69]

i agree,seem like someone finished what was started

[Pie]

I haven't ridden the new stuff (still waiting on the fork for my big bike and work is a killer this week) but I know that the lefthander before the mini-hip always had deadfall piled on the outside of the turn in an obvious "this will be dirted into a berm" fashion for months now.

The upper double near the log rides definitely needs some adjustment (aim it more to the left so no one gets hurt riding into the very large tree on the right), though good on anyone who can hit it clean right now. You're a better rider than I.

[urbaindk]

I haven't ridden the new stuff (still waiting on the fork for my big bike and work is a killer this week) but I know that the lefthander before the mini-hip always had deadfall piled on the outside of the turn in an obvious "this will be dirted into a berm" fashion for months now.



Yes exactly. It looks like who ever has been working out there just finished the berms they had already started and added a log or two to the left hander to change its direction so you don't hit the little tree. Hey at least the didn't just cut the little tree down!

It would be nice if they made their dig pits a little less conspicuous. I was disappointed to see that they just dug the dirt from right behind the berms and left big holes in the ground. There are plenty of downed trees with huge root balls that with a little effort and a wheelbarrow could be mined for plenty of dirt. But then again it would probably be pretty hard to explain what they were doing in the woods with a wheelbarrow...

Also, for those of you that complain that the creek gap is too close to the big kicker or just too wide, contemplate this: There were a few guys out there gapping the creek gap from the opposite direction (as a step-up). Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder it seems.

[mike a]

I've started riding Patapsco a lot recently. Where is the jump park at? I haven't ran across it yet...

edit: Nevermind, found it in another post..

[cowboy00242]

I thought the jumps were supposed to be taken out? :confused:

Not that I want them taken. Sadly, I just got introduced to them before I moved south. I may need to run north to hit them again before they disappear.

[Pie]

Dig pits right next to the trail is always an eyesore, I agree. Sure it's easier but it just looks awful and usually bungs up the drainage in some way. A better method is to dig down where you want to place something (let's say a jump) fill the hole with rocks or deadfall and use the excavated dirt to mound back on top of everything.

Wheelbarrows are great but yeah, a bit obvious and a bit of a pain to get into the woods unless you're literally hiking in with ONLY that and maybe a few tools. Savvy trailbuilders in '07 are buying green or black 5 gallon buckets and leave them conceiled in the bushes until they're finished a multi-day dig, then remove them (obviously so it's not just dumped like trash).


I'm NOT advocating rogue trailbuilding, mind you. These are all good techniques during legal ops. :)

[BikerMiker]

They have posted signs but we have been posting and communicating via back channels. There was more work done and it may cause they to be destroyed.

This is a tough situation and we haven't really been through it before so it's kinda hard to manage. Sorry if it's not clear enough. I have been reaching out to the park to try and move this process forward to no avail.

We'll see how it goes.

mike

[mike a]

I made my way over to the jump park this past weekend. I was a bit let down. One thing that the area is missing is "flow". Nothing flows well, transitions ext. Hopefully if we get an area that is planned and legally built it will be a lot more fun. If we do I will be glad to pitch in some muscle. :D

[BikerMiker]

Yup. That's the plan.

Lot's of good riding in Odenton, eh?

Heh.

You know, you're really close to the head of Severn Run. There's ANOTHER possibility for us in a BIG way.

mike

[mike a]

Yup. That's the plan.

Lot's of good riding in Odenton, eh?



My house backs up to Odenton Park, there are a few miles of trails back there. Is that what you are talking about? I'm fairly new around here so there may be some riding that I have no idea about.

[BikerMiker]

That's me trying to be funny and wishing that there was trail back there.

I live really close to you and am always looking for places to ride out my front door on the mtn bike but they just don't exist. I'm forced to rock my 'urban singletrack' on the golf course here in Crofton.

If you want to ride fixed or road from your front door, let me know. I try to get out during the week so just shoot me an email if you want to hook up or go to Patapsco (as I'm going to do today).

Peace and train station grease.

mike

[RetroG]

Yup. That's the plan.

Lot's of good riding in Odenton, eh?

Heh.

You know, you're really close to the head of Severn Run. There's ANOTHER possibility for us in a BIG way.

mike

What are we waiting for at the Crownsville/Severn Run site?

[mike a]

just shoot me an email if you want to hook up or go to Patapsco (as I'm going to do today).

....I'm taking today off, I road Patapsco Sat, Mon, Tues & did 40 miles on the roadbike on Sun.

I rode "bull run" for the first time yesterday, that's a fun climb!

[BikerMiker]

Climb?! I don't think I've ever gone up that one. It's too fun going down...

As for waiting, I'm waiting on the county to get in gear. That's really hard in an election year.

mike

[GBone]

If everything is so lousy why doesnt someone step up and freakin' fix the damn place to "MORE" standards? This thread has been going on for damn near a year, and all I hear is crying about this and that!?

Name the time and date, and there will be an army of people that will be there to fix what needs fixing! There is no need for bulldozers as the mother nature has rendered the entire place useless at this point.

This club needs to diversify its interests to accomodate people that are intersted in expanding there skills and doing something more intersting than improving their lap times on the same lousy trails. The trails in the park are maintained so that every guy off the street will be accomodated and ensured a smooth ride - thats not mountain biking. If the park were managed like a ski resort where there is something for everyone (expert, imtermediate, and novice) life would be great. Instead this club encourages stagnation of skills.

I hope the architects of the "freeride section" continue to build out until you guys can work out the politics that you have created in a sport that is supposed to be an escape.

[punga]

If everything is so lousy why doesnt someone step up and freakin' fix the damn place to "MORE" standards? This thread has been going on for damn near a year, and all I hear is crying about this and that!?

Name the time and date, and there will be an army of people that will be there to fix what needs fixing! There is no need for bulldozers as the mother nature has rendered the entire place useless at this point.

This club needs to diversify its interests to accomodate people that are intersted in expanding there skills and doing something more intersting than improving their lap times on the same lousy trails. The trails in the park are maintained so that every guy off the street will be accomodated and ensured a smooth ride - thats not mountain biking. If the park were managed like a ski resort where there is something for everyone (expert, imtermediate, and novice) life would be great. Instead this club encourages stagnation of skills.

I hope the architects of the "freeride section" continue to build out until you guys can work out the politics that you have created in a sport that is supposed to be an escape.

As you've been following this so closely, maybe you can tell me how you missed bikermiker's simple statement:

Ok, I'll go slowly here. The one and only thing that matters is that the trails were created in a state park without following the procedures in place for creating new trail, let alone an expert-level trail. That is the only thing that matters for necessitating (and supporting) destruction. Any discussion about their location, design, construction, etc, is purely academic.

It is MD state park land, you can't just build things as you see fit. Being public, managed land, we don't have a right to
manage the park like a ski resort where there is something for everyone (expert, imtermediate, and novice) life would be great. ^^^^^
Edited for clearity, but not spelling ;)

If you want ski resort type trails, go to Snow Shoe or Deep Creek or Timberline, pay your lift and admittance fee and have a good ride, I'll be at Timberline for Labor Day weekend myself. But since these are multi-use trails, we can't think about ourselves exclusively.

If you want to do something, pm BikerMiker and ask him how you can help get things done there. I understand your frustration, but it ain't gonna happen that way you think it should. Thems there facts we hear in the reality based community live with.

punga!

[Pie]

I did several up and down runs on the stuff on Wednesday evening.

Guess I'm either getting spoiled by other big bike riding in MD, or I'm getting better at hitting larger and larger drops/jumps, because Patapsco (which never really felt intimidating to begin with) is getting a bit dull. The new "stuff" is interesting. I wonder if they dig at night because considering how much traffic that park gets it seems like it would be the only time to build.

Crazy ol' rogue builders skulking around with headlamps. Heh.



Thought I was going to die riding in a full facer since I left my Xen at home and it was about 120% humidity. That was a drag.

[andyl]

Can anyone give me some directions to the jump area at Patapsco? I've been searching the threads and can't find anything.

I am new to the area and country infact, just arrived from Dubai, and I am looking forward to riding in the woods after 5 years of living in the desert.

[BikerMiker]

First trail off of Norris lane from Landing Rd. A quick look at a map should help you out. It's not on the trail map so use a regular map.

mike

[jabberwocky]

I just rode this trail yesterday for the first time since last fall. The jumps were way bigger than I remember. Some transition for the landings would be kinda nice. Hit the jumps fast enough and the landing gets a little hard.

The stream gap wasn't as big as I expected, although you need to hit the jump right before it with enough speed to make the gap, which was a little awkward. Still, fun.

[andyl]

Thanks Mike.

I was out riding earlier today at Loch Raven and a guy I met there recommended the trails in Patapsco.

Looking forward to checking them out next weekend.

Andy