What can we do?

[urbaindk]

There are two sides to every coin, two sides to every argument.

Freeriders have gotten a bad name in the past for building unauthorized trails, TTFs and jeapordizing trail access for all. MORE, and probably other trail advocacy group around the country, have a bad name amongst freeriders for removing features and closing unauthorized trails. Right or wrong that's where it now stands.

What can we all do to bridge this gap? (ladder bridge anyone?) What will we use this forum for?

[DMarchy1]

All parks that have a maintenance relationship with MORE have a Trail Liaison.

Howabout any freeriders wanting TTF's or Freeride trails in a paticular park, nominate a freerider to be the freeride liaison, and work within the system to utilize, design, build and maintain the type of riding features you guys would enjoy having!

If freeride features are approved, MORE would not remove or closeoff those sections.

Just an Idea
Dave Marchyshyn
Rosaryville Trail Liaison

P.S. I would welcome TTF's at Rosaryville, and Would welcome a Freeride Liaison.

[urbaindk]

P.S. I would welcome TTF's at Rosaryville, and Would welcome a Freeride Liaison.


Good idea David. I'll volunteer / nominate myself to said position since that's probably the closest trail to me anyway. I'm most likely going to be there on the 1st to help out on the trail day. We can talk then or meet another time if that's too busy a day.


I'll see what I can do to get others to become or nominate liasons for other locations.


Dave

[dcraider]

Good idea David. I'll volunteer / nominate myself to said position since that's probably the closest trail to me anyway. I'm most likely going to be there on the 1st to help out on the trail day. We can talk then or meet another time if that's too busy a day.


I'll see what I can do to get others to become or nominate liasons for other locations.


Dave

Way to step up. See now thats what I'm talking about, someone who has a possible solution to a problem rather than just bitching about it. Thanks Urbain. All hail our 1st freeride liason, MORE's biggest step yet into the future that is freeriding.

And a big kudos to Dave M because you can count on him actually making a sincere effort to get ttfs put into Rosaryville if thats what some of the riding population wants. He has done some great things and probably will continue to do great things (TTFS) since and while he is Rosey's liason.

Dave is that sufficient butt kissing for at least one TTF? BTW, I'll help clear the corridor on the 1st.

Kris

[TMayhew]

What about a skills area; things like low skinnys, teeter-totters, logs, boulder causeways, etc? I saw on IMBA's site that it's been done elsewhere.

In my mind one of the greatest risks in TTFs is that someone with no experience riding TTFs will come across features miles from the trailhead, attempt it, and get hurt. That puts the park and future TTFs at risk. A skills area would give people a chance to perfect skills in a space that's close to assistance if it's needed.

[themonkeyman]

In my mind one of the greatest risks in TTFs is that someone with no experience riding TTFs will come across features miles from the trailhead, attempt it, and get hurt. That puts the park and future TTFs at risk. A skills area would give people a chance to perfect skills in a space that's close to assistance if it's needed.

Well, whatever is built,"ride at your own risk" signs are a must. We don't want some bozo hurting himself and trying to sue MORE and/or the Park Authority.

I think a Skills Area would be a great thing to have and a valuble tool. Where would you suggest putting it?

[urbaindk]

What about a skills area; things like low skinnys, teeter-totters, logs, boulder causeways, etc? I saw on IMBA's site that it's been done elsewhere.

In my mind one of the greatest risks in TTFs is that someone with no experience riding TTFs will come across features miles from the trailhead, attempt it, and get hurt. That puts the park and future TTFs at risk. A skills area would give people a chance to perfect skills in a space that's close to assistance if it's needed.

EDIT: this post is in reference to Rosaryville in case anybody was wondering...


David M and I had lunch a few months ago and have already discussed doing something like that. We'll have to see. Obviously we don't have a plan yet or any approval, although from what David M say it might not be too hard to get. I think in someways we can thank the horseback riders for this. After seeing some of their cross country jump standards, I think it will be pretty difficult to say no to some MTB TTFs or a skills area.

One potential area to put a skills park is to reclaim the kudzu field directly in front of the main parking lot. That might take a lot of work to reclaim however.

Please keep offering up ideas. Once things get a little more organized I'll try to put together a ridearound / meeting / brainstorming session on site. I think if we can go out in the woods and start snapping lots of pictures of potential areas. Then we can put together some sort of slick presentation for the park managers and we may actually be able to move forward.

[TMayhew]

I think a Skills Area would be a great thing to have and a valuble tool. Where would you suggest putting it?
The first place that came to mind was Wakefield, given that they've already shown willingness to implement "risky" activity in the park plan with the construction of the skatepark and consideration of other things I'll leave unnamed. But, on second thought, Wakefield sees a high volume of new riders due to proximity and the relative easiness of the trails. Introducing TTFs could be asking for trouble.

Regarding signs, I liked the picture in the last Dirt Rag of the sign warning riders that they were approaching expert terrain, encouraging them to dismount and inspect the feature before attempting it, encouraging pads/armour and a full-face helmet, etc. Oh, and it had a big skull and crossbones on it to really catch your attention. :) Signs, waivers, etc. are pretty much just fluff. They won't protect the land owner if something were to happen. My favorite childhood skatepark was closed because little Johnny no-skills busted his face up and his parents sued and won in spite of having signed a waiver stating they knew and understood the risks, etc.

[Jason Reckner]

I feel the skills park is a great idea. We did something similar to this on a friends property in NY. We build small stuff to learn the skills on and just kept building bigger more technical stuff as time went by. This was on private land so we were not limited but we approached it with the idea of a north shore that we could build and control. I will list the site and link at the end you can go look at some on the stuff we constructed. There are not many pics of the small ttfs but i have a stack of pics that show most everything i would love to show anyone that would like to see.

I would be more than happy to come up and help people learn these stunts. I have extra pads full face helmets and a big and bigger bike that i would let people do it on if they were afraid to hurt their ride.

This is a great first step.

pinkbike.com then go to pennellville NY bobs knob there are and assortment of pics

Jason

[mark w]

SORBA has a mini-skills area at a park with minimal TTFs in it. Blanket's Creek outside of Atlanta has small teeters, curb-high skinnys and log crossings of various sizes and difficulties in a small field near the main trail head. The only TTF I saw on the actual trail was a heavily sanitized (Chainsawed flat and cross-hatched for traction), yet challenging log ride. A skills park is a great way to help people hone their skills with minimal risk. The grassy area in front of the Tennis courts would be a good spot to arrange such an area at Wakefield.

[BikerMiker]

We will be talking to Patapsco about such an area for TTFs now that we have a huge issue with unauthorized trails out there.

We also have access to land in the Anne Arundel County/Annapolis area where we can build a skills park with doubles, drops, skinnies, etc. We are waiting on design and approval to move forward. Look for more action this Spring and Summer. There are already skate parks and BMX stuff on official county land, paid for and constructed by the county so they are in good shape for providing more of these opportunities out here.

Not much for you NoVa people, but there it is. If you are in the area, please let me know. We'll need help.

mike

[Dirt]

Once we've got a decent skills park around, how about setting up a clinic or two to show some of us XC geeks how to ride the stuff. That would definitely increase your ranks and get more lobbying power.

When I get back in May, I'll take some folks to a natural skills park if you're interested. It is a lot of work to get to the top of the hill, but the ride down is a blast.

Pete

[mark w]

I was contemplating bringing back the Saturday ride at FH this year. More often than not, that ride turned into a clinic when there was a section that was giving folks trouble. We worked on rooty descents, steep climbs, cornering, log crossing, what to do when it's a little damp (greasy roots, etc.) and anything else we could find. If we can put together an area with low-risk/high challenge man-made features, we can do more formalized classes/clinics.

Later on in the ride last Monday, Joe P and I looked at all kinds of line choices for picking up little bits of time here and there in Phase 1.

[Natureboi]

Once we've got a decent skills park around, how about setting up a clinic or two to show some of us XC geeks how to ride the stuff.

Skills park equals ski resorts. You want man made rock and terrain built into the hills, then go there. Although i am not sure if the resorts out there are like the resorts out here in Colorado. And i know they aren't as close as they resorts out here are either. Either that or go find yourself a lil forest on BLM land and build your own trails with challenges/terrain. That is the way Wakefield and Accotink were back in the late 80 and early 90's. If you wanted more obstacles all you had to do was fall a tree, build a log pyramid, or lay some logs throught the bogs. Which is why i used to go there all the time. I do like the new trail systems at Wakefield but do not like the lack of spontanaity the trails have now. Accotink seems like it was lost and forgotten as most of the trails are still there, slightly blocked, but not ridden much. I remember how crowded that place used to get. I haven't seen any traffic like that since the 90's.

If i move back to VA i will be more then happy to take back some of the lost trails at Accotink and wear them back in. Wakefield is so well developed that if you made side chutes now you'd have tons of erosion issues. Besides whoever did all that work would be pissed. I don't think even think any of my friends remember most of the trails we used to ride at Accotink as they are all overgrown and unused now.

[mark w]

Oh there's still plenty to ride at Accotink. It's a shame it's closed at night but there are miles of great trails there.

[dcraider]

Skills park equals ski resorts. You want man made rock and terrain built into the hills, then go there. Although i am not sure if the resorts out there are like the resorts out here in Colorado. And i know they aren't as close as they resorts out here are either. Either that or go find yourself a lil forest on BLM land and build your own trails with challenges/terrain. That is the way Wakefield and Accotink were back in the late 80 and early 90's. If you wanted more obstacles all you had to do was fall a tree, build a log pyramid, or lay some logs throught the bogs. Which is why i used to go there all the time. I do like the new trail systems at Wakefield but do not like the lack of spontanaity the trails have now. Accotink seems like it was lost and forgotten as most of the trails are still there, slightly blocked, but not ridden much. I remember how crowded that place used to get. I haven't seen any traffic like that since the 90's.

If i move back to VA i will be more then happy to take back some of the lost trails at Accotink and wear them back in. Wakefield is so well developed that if you made side chutes now you'd have tons of erosion issues. Besides whoever did all that work would be pissed. I don't think even think any of my friends remember most of the trails we used to ride at Accotink as they are all overgrown and unused now.

I rather enjoy the miles of trails at the tink. Plenty of fast singletrack, downhills, log rolls, rock gardens, some small drops...I go about once a week and enjoy every minute of it.

Kris

[DMarchy1]

Hey, the energy and positive thoughts are sure putting a smile on my face right now. We actually have Tentative approval for a Technical and challenging area out at Rosaryville. As it appears right now It would be an area off of a new trail very out of the way. Rich Edwards with IMBA also wants a Small trials area in or near the parking lot for skills practice. We have Many Many Exciting things in the works. I hope to see lots of people out For the Saturday April 1 Trailwork Day, Austin has challenged me to get some major corridor clearing accomplished ahead of Rich's machinary.

Due to the Capital Hill Bikes Event the same day. We will meet at The carriage house ( on the Mansion Road Very close to where we all cross the road at the halfway point of the trail at 9:00 am Saturday.

Dave M. 301-509-3191. I hope to have the gate ( off Rosaryville Road ) opened for the day, If not just call me and I will give you the code. Dave M.

[urbaindk]

If you are in the area, please let me know. We'll need help.

mike


I am in this area and would like to help.


Oh yeah and you said to bug you about the women's skills clinic: bug bug bug.