Help riding fallen trees

[cbass]

I'm looking for some advice on riding fallen trees...you know, the mountain biking version of a tight rope.

[robbie]

it's all about balance and confidence. Practice track stands. Also get some 2X3's and set then down on the ground and practice riding on them. once you get used to that just remember that they are much thinner than most deadfall trees that people ride.

[punga]

I'm looking for some advice on riding fallen trees...you know, the mountain biking version of a tight rope.
I've been working for the past few years to master this and I'll pass a few things I've learned:

1) Look ahead. Don't stay focused on your front tire or you'll wobble a lot. Try to look 10 feet ahead of you and you'll ride much smoother

2) Work on your balance by swinging your knees out as your coasting. These mini-shifts of weight can help a lot when you're just on the verge of falling off (which you will do often when trying to learn)

3) Speed is important. It goes against human nature to speed up in a dangerous situation, but think about it: the faster you go, the less time your ham fisted brain has time to screw you up. Rolling across the log at 10 mph vs 5 mph is a huge difference. Plus you keep your balance better when you're moving faster, vs slowly navigating your way down the log.

4) Watch a few videos like The Collective or New World Disorder and learn from the pros when they're riding skinnys. There is a part of the Collective where the guy is riding across a metal pipe to a chain. Watch his body as he pivots and moves to stay on top.

That's about all I can offer besides practice, practice, practice.

punga!

[BikerMiker]

Punga has really made this type of riding his new thing. He's spent a lot of time getting his bike dialed for this type of riding. He loaded up the big rubber, got rid of that pesky large chainring and 'sessions' logs.

Two things: sessioning and togetherness... these two things will help you out a lot during this fun learning time.

'Sessioning' something is the idea that you go somewhere to ride your bike and you end up standing around a lot. At a place like Patapsco, we have this area of doubles and log rides and fun stuff that is close to Landing Rd. I will go and session that area for a few hours without even really going 'on a bike ride.' Basically, you go to practice stuff instead of riding for miles and hours. Hit that jump 10 or 12 times. Ride that log until you nail it 4 times in a row without dabbing. Practice, practice, practice.

This type of riding is no fun by yourself. You can easily get frustrated when you are starting out so it's good to go with other people. It's GREAT to go with people that are better at this stuff than you. Watch them, ask questions, change your bike setup for a few weeks to concentrate on this type of riding.

Sessioning is one of the big differences between mountainbikers and freeriders, if there is one. Mountainbikers have a destination: riding all over the trails. Freeriders have a destination: a certain area with lots of logs or jumps or whatever. This really gets at the heart of the difference between two types of riding, if there is one. Sure there is a middle ground, but you get the point.

So, send out an email or post to the site and let people know that you want to go session Schaeffer or Patapsco, concentrating on all the log rides, communicating that you want to hang out and ride. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in that. I am.

Mike

[drevil]

'Sessioning' something is the idea that you go somewhere to ride your bike and you end up standing around a lot...This type of riding is no fun by yourself.
Sure it is. I was out for a couple of hours yesterday "sessioning" that section of Avalon (logriding, not jumping) and a bunch of uphills throughout the park that I don't usually make.

I'm a little confused now though, since I was sessioning uphills, was I freeriding or mountainbiking? :p ;)

Mike's right though, watching others that can do is more fun and it helps. You sometimes get to see what you need to do, and what you don't want to do. (When they curl into the fetal position clasping their groin, avoid what they just did.)

[drevil]

... bunch of uphills throughout the park that I don't usually make...The one section that I really want to see someone ride up is at the very top of the hill above the bathrooms in front of Swinging Bridge (I really wish I knew trail names). When looking uphill at it, it's a section sandwiched between a tree on the right and large rocks on the left. The main route is a complete tangle of roots so intertwined and twisted that a straight shot up it is impossible...methinks. In years and years of watching people attempt it, I've not seen a human bean make it yet. (Unless I have completely wiped from my brain a riderx completion.)

Any superhumans out there know what I'm talking about and have been successful passing through it, uphill? :eek: I will buy lunch (up to $6.66) for the first person I see successfully making it through this section, uphill, without dabbing. Buhring it! :D I guess a good, clear video counts.

[cbass]

Is this the spot?

It's on the climb above the swinging bridge on the HoCo side, but it's not at the very top.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cbnystrom/20118351/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/14/20118351_a7e13db8d1_o.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="06-18-05_1654.jpg" /></a>

A little bit of a cheater line has since been carved out over on the right, but it's still very steep. I've never made it all the way up this mess.

[drevil]

Yup, that's the junk. Even with the low-res pic, you can see it's plain nutty. Everyone I've ever been with that attempted it (including me) were on rigid singlespeeds, so basically we had to attack it at speed. Maybe a super fatty double-boinger with a super low gear can crawl up it? I spent fifteen minutes there yesterday trying to get up that section. It's kinda like banging your head into a brick wall ;)

[BikerMiker]

Nice looking spot. I call that the 'tire tester.'

Mike

[cbass]

I remember being afraid to ride down it, fearing all those wheel eating roots!
Now that I've conquered that fear the next step is to ride UP the sucker, but it's like a rubick's cube of roots to me.

I gave it another try last weekend on the squishy bike, but didn't get past half way. I think lower tire pressure would help grip with traction on the roots, but other than that it's just powering to maintain some momentum and muscle up the roots (or bust out some trials wizardry).

The approach is pretty steep too so getting up to speed is not easy. I'm way over-geared (or under-legged!) to even attempt that business on my rigid SS...no way.

I'll tell you one guy that cleans that section is Chris Eatough. He lives close by and spends a lot of hours on those trails. Plus, he's got sick technical skills.

The more I ride out there the more I appreciate the quality, quantity and the diversity of the trails.

[werace424]

That rooty mess looks like a sh*t load of big fat snakes!! EWE! :eek:

I know I can't ride up it now, maybe not even down, but I will give it a shot next time I am there.
No matter where you are, you will hear the screams of joy for the first one who does.

Paul

[drevil]

That rooty mess looks like a sh*t load of big fat snakes!! EWE! :eek:

I know I can't ride up it now, maybe not even down, but I will give it a shot next time I am there.
No matter where you are, you will hear the screams of joy for the first one who does.

Paul
In my experience when coming down it, I've had better luck swinging to the right (left side in that pic). The left side (when looking downward) seems easier initially, but you get jacked up at the bottom.

[langer]

i never ride up that section...i instead head straight down the trail to that little waterfall. where does the root trail lead? i know i've been up there before, but it has been years since.

[punga]

At one point there was a log on the left side running parallel to the trail, just behind the camera's perspective (as you're coming down), it might still be there but since I'm usually moving at a good clip, I don't look closely. If one chooses to go low, to the left you will meet with that log and the log will win, speaking from experience. I now tell myself as I'm making that downhill run (one of my favorite in Patapsco) "Stay high, Stay high." Then again, I say that to myself quite a bit.

I'm not into self-abusing myself too much, so I generally take a route that sends me down that section instead of up it. And of course, with the trail work we did last year re-routing the section below, you now have kinds of fun navigating around new, hairy, gravel switchback. Gotta work on the one, Mike...

punga!

[drevil]

i never ride up that section...i instead head straight down the trail to that little waterfall. where does the root trail lead? i know i've been up there before, but it has been years since.
I wish I knew names of the trails, but as cbass said, that root section is not the top (as I misstated). Get over those roots, then there's a hella climb on your SS. When you get to the top of that, there is a short downhill to the right, then a quick tricky uphill again. Eventually you'll end up at a five- (or six-) way intersection, where a log sits. Pick the one that's at about 11 o'clock, and it'll bring you back down to the stream, uptrail from the little waterfall. Makes no sense? Give it a shot, it's hard to get lost back there anyways (or join me on a ride).

[cbass]

That low line is an temptress as it looks less rooty, but it's off-camber-ness will keep pulling you left like an evil tractor beam...right into the aforementioned log.

At the top where Drevil mentioned you have 3 options

1. Left (11 o'clock-ish) loops back down toward the top of the Cascade Falls.

2. Straight (1 o'clock-ish) takes you eventually to a nice rocky downhill back to the creek and on the way to Landing Rd.

3. Right (3 o'clock-ish) is the Widowmaker, a mean 'ol downhill that is now closed or grown over. It used to be a beast & maybe it still is. It brings you back down to the River well upstream of the Swinging Bridge.

Back on the deadfall riding topic there are a few 'beginner' trees that I've been practicing on. They're relatively short, wide, and close to the ground. There's one over by the small Landing Rd parking area and a couple on the Rolling Rd. entrance trail. I'm sure there are others.

I still haven't gotten up the nerve to attempt any of the big ones yet.

I just moved to a 2 minute ride to the trails so I'm out there a lot these days.
Let me know if y'all are out there.

[drevil]

I just moved to a 2 minute ride to the trails so I'm out there a lot these days.
Let me know if y'all are out there.
Today, at 4, Landing Road:
http://more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3529

[drevil]

I will buy lunch (up to $6.66) for the first person I see successfully making it through this section, uphill, without dabbing. Buhring it! :D I guess a good, clear video counts.
I owe Siebold lunch. He cleared it before me (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showpost.php?p=23182&postcount=1) :cool:

[Snot-Rocket]

I've been working for the past few years to master this and I'll pass a few things I've learned:

1) Look ahead. Don't stay focused on your front tire or you'll wobble a lot. Try to look 10 feet ahead of you and you'll ride much smoother

punga!

I think item 1 - says it all. This is all about focus and mental committment. 9 times out of 10 you will quit mentally before actually physically failing to maintain your line and balance.

You can try riding the edge of a curb- balancing is the easy part if you can focus. If you have gears- respective to gearing- depends on how you balance... the easiest thing to do is coast- pedaling requires more skill- a gear that is on the crux of being too soft works for me.

If you have suspension- ensure your bike is set up well. Unbalanced suspension does not help.

Respective to speed- deliberate pace makes it easier to balance. However, mental focus respective to speed takes practice. The slower you go the more cognizant balancing is required- there is an inverse relationship between required balancing skillz and speed.

You can't rush this- you have to be a person who rides lines not trail. A good way to figure your bias is what is your night riding preference for light mounting- like if you had one choice what is your preference- helmet or handlebars. Weenies who like a headlamp ride per trail vision. Folks who like handlebar mounts are trail focused- this is not a good thing.

Again the safest way is to first ride parking stripes and curbs until you are way comfortable and then just step it up from there. I also find- when I used to do these things a bit is visualization. Like before you rack at night visualize riding the log, like you are riding it at various speeds and what not- it is kinda funny, but if you can't mentally do this, you can't physically do this.

Note- this ability erodes w/out practice...all concentration.

[mtbgeek]

All great points. What I would like to add is to focus directly on where you want to go, not on the ground you are afraid of endo-ing on. As soon as you look to the side, off the side you WILL go. This is the same principle as picking a line on the trail. Don't focus on the things you don't want to hit, you will hit them.

Case in point. We took a bunch of pics riding the logs at Schaeffer. Gary had my camera and before my first run I said to myself..."whatever you do don't hit Gary who is holding my really expensive camera". That was the only time I went over that side of the log. In fact I have a sequence of pics (5FPS!) showing me on a collision course with the camera!

Another thing is to master getting off the log cleanly without falling. This will make the learning process much easier on your body. Your mind will be comforted by the fact that it won't hurt when you go off the side. As soon as I determine that I am going off the side I switch to "save my ass" mode and concentrate on a clean landing. Pull the bars up and hop off!

I started riding on a 8' 4x4 post. First I put it on the ground, later I started putting logs under it. I finally ended up with a little playground in my backyard.

Fun stuff!

[drevil]

I finally ended up with a little playground in my backyard.

Fun stuff!
That's a great idea to have a backyard playground and yours looks good. I've considered it many times but have been too lazy to get around to doing it. Besides, my backyard sucks...

[mtbgeek]

The only downside is that my neighbors now are sure that I am insane (like seeing me leave the house at 7am on Sunday mornings for a ride when it is only 20 degrees outside isn't enough).

I got over that rather quickly.

[Snot-Rocket]

I started riding on a 8' 4x4 post. First I put it on the ground, later I started putting logs under it. I finally ended up with a little playground in my backyard.

Fun stuff!

I've been considering this for year- but never got off my arse! This looks pretty motivating! I'm going to try and get this project going this Spring! I often get home late and what not and I think a simple series of training aids will be great to just dork around in the yard for a half-hour or so. I was wondering what I'd do w/ my Cove Stiffee frame- I'm feeling a backyard session bike!

Granted, where do you draw the line between trials and freeriding when the focus is stunts?

[mtbgeek]

I have a lot of fun with this. And surprisingly I get my heart rate up doing it. Hop up, ride, and either ride down the ramp or hop off. Repeat 10-20 times without stopping. I am pretty good at it but I still can't do it every time. I ride both my Blur and my rigid SS on this thing (Blur is much easier).

The height is about 22in on the ramp side and 18in on the opposite side. And on the opposite side there is no ramp so you have to hop up onto the stump to get onto the platform. The total cost was about $25 (I had the 4x4) and it took me probably 3 hours to build. I got the big stumps from my neighbor across the street.

The next trick I want to learn is to be able to hop onto the ramp sideways. Wheelie up the front wheel and them hop the rear wheel onto the platform. Could cause some pain.

Do a search on MTBR. There are lots of other crazies out there that have done much more radical stuff off their decks, etc. I say GO FOR IT Snot Rocket! Entertain the family with spectacular crashes!

[werace424]

I have been inspired. I always was the type of person to ride from a to b and not really practice obstacles. I have now been inspired to the point where I now have the humble beginnings of my own obstacle course in my back yard.

The "big" log is 18" in diameter, and 22" wide. A good starting point... I think.

Like the Geek says go for it and at least entertain the family with my spectacular crashes.

Next will be the "log" on the ground. I am not afraid of heights, jusy falling to the ground from them. :D

Thanks for the ideas and inspiration.

Paul

[JFritsch]

Any superhumans out there know what I'm talking about and have been successful passing through it, uphill? :eek: I will buy lunch (up to $6.66) for the first person I see successfully making it through this section, uphill, without dabbing. Buhring it! :D I guess a good, clear video counts.

I've come real close if not cleaned the section on a 26 wheel, now that I have squshy 29er............. the $6.66 will cover lunch at Taco Bell. Problem is I don't get out there to ride anymore :)

[drevil]

I've come real close if not cleaned the section on a 26 wheel, now that I have squshy 29er............. the $6.66 will cover lunch at Taco Bell. Problem is I don't get out there to ride anymore :)
Since this climb took a life on its own, I broke off a lil' somethin' somethin':
http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3563

[werace424]

I have been inspired. I always was the type of person to ride from a to b and not really practice obstacles. I have now been inspired to the point where I now have the humble beginnings of my own obstacle course in my back yard.

The "big" log is 18" in diameter, and 22" wide. A good starting point... I think.

Like the Geek says go for it and at least entertain the family with my spectacular crashes.

Next will be the "log" on the ground. I am not afraid of heights, jusy falling to the ground from them. :D

Thanks for the ideas and inspiration.

Paul


Ok, Cleared it easily. Well, fairly easily. Now, Do I make it harder or keep going until perfect?

Paul

[dcraider]

Ok, Cleared it easily. Well, fairly easily. Now, Do I make it harder or keep going until perfect?

Paul

Keep going until you can bunny hop it, then build a ramp over it, then a freeride ladder, than a 2x6 bridge than a 6 foot drop than put some rocks in your yard and pretend its the world's toughest rock garden, then after you can clear everything without falling run in and get the spousal unit so she can watch you fall on the first obstacle because you cant unclip. Hell, that's what I would do.

Keep practicing and then try the big log only if you have some way to keep it from rolling when you hit it. WWPD? (what would Paul Do?) and video tape it for my favorite hurt yourself website.

[mtbgeek]

Ya, get rid of those helper logs and learn how to just clear the big one. Here is the other side of my mini park. I hop onto the tall side, it is about 18in. I ride up, pop the front wheel up on the top and then hop the back up in one motion. Hitting the chain ring is strictly forbidden!

There is one big log on the white trail at Schaeffer that I can now get over most of the time. It is much bigger than this.

See the kids play fort behind? That is the phase II project. Run a ramp up there and drop off the back. Kids don't play up there anymore anyway :D

[urbaindk]

This may have been said before but cruise your neighborhood on your bike and look for flat topped curbs, brick planters, and small stair sets and make them your obstacles. You can practice hop-ups, bunny hops, skinny skills, pedal kicks, wheelie drops, just about everything you can imagine with out ever leaving your neighborhood if you just look around. (Helps a lot if you live in an urban area.)

There's a 120 yard long, curved, 6" wide skinny a block from my house. I've ridden all but the last 20 yards of it. I was so pissed when I fell off so close to the end. I've never even gotten past halfway since then. But I try it almost every day and I'm sure I'll finish it someday.

[TMayhew]

I'm going to try and get this project going this Spring!
I've been thinking my yard needs a teeter-totter. If you get some time and feel like riding over with a circular saw let me know. :)

[cbass]

Thanks for everyone's tips.

I did my first "sessioning" on some skinnies at Avalon near Landing Rd. this weekend.

There were a few guys doing some really cool stuff on the logs and jumps. They gave me some more tips and didn't laugh too much when I racked myself. Watching them was the most helpful thing for me.

There's a nice set of logs end to end with a slight turn in the transition where I spent most of my time (mostly because there's plenty of room to bail on either side).

After two days of attempts I can can usually make the entire first one & occassionally finish the second as well. Most importantly I've gotten better at wheelie dropping off of the log when I get squirrelly. Yesterday I found myself trying to unclip and put a foot out when I'd lose my line, but that leads to bad things when the log is 2+ feet off the ground.

The keys for me are having some momentum, focusing on the line (and not the ground), and just being confident. When doubt creeps in the bike seems to veer off the log.

I'm not ready for the logs that have a lot of elevation or sketchy landing areas, but in just a couple of days my confidence has really grown.

I'm definitely not a ~freerider~ but I have a new appreciation for the art and think learning the basic skills will only help my overall riding.

Thanks!