What is the fuss about?

[cbuki]

Somebody please explain. I don't get the Wakefield thng. I found the course suitable for my five year old neice in terms of difficulty, and about as pretty as the parking lot shrubbery at RFK. I don't get it.

I was stuck in a dreadful work grind but needed a quick 2 hour workout and traffic on 95 meant I couldn't get to Fountainhead for a couple-few circuits. So I tried Wakefield. It bored the sith out of me.

For three years I have been hearing one version or another of "ya gotta go to Wakefield". So I went. What is there, maybe 15 feet of vertical over the whole circuit? Might as well be riding at Assateague at sea level. Plus there's redneck debris along the creek or whatever that putrid suburban water source was I saw. Then like a fake lake. I admit I saw a really ice red fox in there somewhere and that kinda made up for the time wasted in some respects. But for a workout, I don't think so, not unless there's a crit.

So I can see the wisdom of the Cranky Monkey because a few laps is a great time in a compet4itive setting, but honestly wouldn't any loop do? But other than riding ina group of racers, why spend time at Wakefield?

Maybe I missed something. If there is something great in there I missed ,I would love to know because it never hurts to have another place to ride.

Thanks

[Snot-Rocket]

There is no point to explaining the merits of Wakefield to you- you've seen to have figured that out for yourself.

You ever read of those experiments where they put a monkey in a room with a banana hanging from the ceiling that is obviously too high up for the monkey to reach. They also put a box in the room full of toys. So the point of the experiment is to see if the monkey will see the box as a stool so he can get the banana or just persistently jump up and down and desperately attempt to get the banana?

It really gets to the notion of the value and/or utility of things and how one's perspective is a driver for determining such things.

Granted, what am I talking about- I need a donut.

[cbuki]

i think i get it....mainly i was wondering if i just missed something at wakefield. like maybe there are challenging trails the markers of which i missed. or maybe my perspective is flawed or something. i so wanted it to be great out there, and i guess i still do and thus am hoping my viewpoint was erred/flawed/incomplete or something, and that a possible alternative result would be to learn that wakefield indeed, is great.

the donut thing i don't get

[Dirt]

Wakefield isn't about challenging singletrack. It is about making the most out of what we've got. It is definitely the closest trails to many of us. It is the only trails in the area where it is legal to night ride. In the summer, I can ride Accotink and Wakefield and get a decent workout in without having to spend 45 minutes each way to get to Fountainhead.

It doesn't give you the kind of workout that Fountainhead does. It does, however, give a bunch of us a place to ride year-round that is 10 minutes from home.

For those further away, it is the ONLY place that lets you ride through the winter durring the week. Other parks allow occasional night rides when conditions permit. The new trails at wakefield hold up much better than anything that has been there in the past, allowing us to ride it further into the winter.

Any Hoopla over "You have to try out Wakefield" needs to be viewed in the context of what it was like a year ago. For most folks, it is a big improvement. In terms of being maintainable, it is a HUGE improvement for everyone.

I'm a person that HATES riding a trainer. I'd rather go to the dentist than ride indoors on a trainer. That makes Wakefield the best place in the world to ride in the winter months.

Pete

PS: Dang you Tom! Now I'm hungry and I have to go hunt down a donut. ;) I keep trying to get people to hang them over my cube... just out of my reach. I've got a box stashed under my desk that I can use as a tool. ;)

[pete]

You said it yourself, I couldn't get to Fountainhead.

The best thing about Wakefield is its proximity to most of us. It allows for midweek workouts on singletrack, good loops can be put together in conjunction with Accotink and they have TWO race series there. You obviously don't know how lucky you/we are. I lived in SC for awhile and I had to drive 2 hours to get out of the sand, 3 hours to find a hill and 4 hours to reach the Mtns. Wakefield is heaven in relative terms.

"Gotta go to Wakefield" is a bit much, I think gotta know about Wakefield is more appropriate.

Enjoy Fountainhead

[cbuki]

thanks for the explanations. this makes lots of sense to me now. i am grateful. for the existence of trails and the hard volunteer work at all kinds of levels to ensure places exist when it's simply not possible to get out to GWNF or Watershed or wherever. So thanks and ride on.

[sigsegv]

I was stuck in a dreadful work grind but needed a quick 2 hour workout and traffic on 95 meant I couldn't get to Fountainhead for a couple-few circuits. So I tried Wakefield. It bored the sith out of me.

For three years I have been hearing one version or another of "ya gotta go to Wakefield". So I went. What is there, maybe 15 feet of vertical over the whole circuit? Might as well be riding at Assateague at sea level. Plus there's redneck debris along the creek or whatever that putrid suburban water source was I saw. Then like a fake lake. I admit I saw a really ice red fox in there somewhere and that kinda made up for the time wasted in some respects. But for a workout, I don't think so, not unless there's a crit.


cbuki,

What part did you ride? There are quite a few trails in the Wakefield/Acotink area, a lot of which are not immediately obvious. Did you just do the Wakefield/Acotink loop? That's pretty easy. Granted, from the sound of it, I don't think the more hidden trails would be very challenging to you either, but they're 20x more challenging than the loop, whose "prettiness" depends mostly on your opinion of your riding partner(s). :)

MORE has two weekly rides in Wakefield on Tuesday nights. http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=18&c=2. It sounds to me that you might want to try the ride with Dominc Tran sometime.

That said, I think Wakefield has a good mix of trails that will nicely challenge beginning riders and even some intermediate riders (if taken at a good pace) or riders hoping to get back into shape or work on their skills.

HTH.

-sig

[Snot-Rocket]

Technically- Wakefield and Accotink is at most low intermediate and the intermediate is defined by the hills (folks need some basic fitness to enjoy the trails), the occassional log and root system...

Granted, I love the two parks- especially the new Wakefield for a variety of reasons:

1. The great outdoors- yeah, ain't the middle of the woods per se, but there are sections of the park where you can appreciate the seasonal variation- if you ride the park year round it is interesting how the vegetation impacts your senses...if you don't know what I'm talking about...you loss.

2. The parks reflect a balance between competing demands- it may not be as technical as folks prefer, but I think Wakefield, in particuliar, and ideally Accotink soon to be- are great examples of a solid trail system via their integration in the community. Fountainhead doesn't reflect that balance I find myself annoyed everytime I ride there...Schaeffer farms is another park that represents great balance- so when you ride those trails; there is good karma all around which is a good thing to enjoy if you are sensitive to it. This balance is reflected in the cycling opportunities in the surrounding communities also- like the Peloton that whips through Ravensworth Farms and Wakefield Chapel periodically, the Cross County Connector which goes through both parks and there are also other trail systems for cycling all around- if you live in the Metro Area and love to bike- the intersection of 495 and Braddock is definitely a place to live...I bought my house there in 2000 for these specific reasons.

3. Some folks ride to bust a lung, oblivious to the nuances of a trail, there is this thing called a good line- all trails are fun if you ride a good line...for me a good line is the one that balances my desire to enjoy the outdoors on a bike and not destroying the trail and violating the experience...so I purposely avoid skidding, try to stay on cut tread- wakefield and accotink has a plethora of good lines which are fun to ride. Granted, folks who are more selfish and only care about their pleasure- well they like skidding, trashing up the trail and getting gnarly per the MTB Advertisements- ha, ha.

4. Social- although my life has been challenged with Baby-Opns and Family Handyman crap; Wake-Tink is a great trail to introduce folks to the sport and enjoy MTB, etc. I've taught introductory MTB clinics there since 2000 and there is enough diversity to provide folks with a good foundation- I'd argue for the average biker- Waketink is still a technical challenge for them.

I'm not going to put forward a proximity discussion per the metro area- that is obvious, however, I'd challenge folks perspective that if they think all MTB is about is ripping highly technical and gnarly trails- they are missing out on many aspects of the sport. Now, there are some trail systems that are definitely boring and uninteresting- not worth the effort; but to characterize Wakefield and Accotink that way seems quite extreme.

I haven't been riding very much at all these past 18-months due to life challenges, but everytime I can get out- I'm always thinking how cool Wake-Tink is- especially all the great work put into the park by folks like Larry C's Boy Scout Trail at Accotink and the recent changes at Wakefield...heck, the thoughts I had yesterday, seeing the changes in the trail to support the race series emphasized the cycling communities love, dedication and passion for MTB... You don't get that vibe in many parks- so it is a shame you aren't sensitive to these details.

Yeah, I haven't ridden much lately, but I've no shame in admitting I haven't mastered how to take all the new corners per the Wakefield System at aggressive speeds- oh, I can take them fast on the edge of control...but to me that is a 'tell' I haven't found the true line. I guess this makes me mediocre...ha, ha which is a good thing, so Wake-tink will continue to be fun for me for quite awhile- ha, ha!

Joy,

[Squirrel Girl]

It's actually closer for me to ride Fountainhead than Wakefield (but not by much). That's why I've blown off Thursdays at WF for Wednesdays at FH. But I still make the horror drive to WF on Tuesdays. I like Craig's rides--last night's mechanicals aside......

There are lots of fun people, and you get to find out who all those avatars are in real life. And Peter's spot on as far as I'm concerned. What else to do in winter? Though I'm thinking this winter of starting work at 5 am so I can get off early an spend an hour or two on the W&OD in the afternoon wan sunshine.

Even soon, I may have to stop leading Pokey FH rides since we won't be out before dark and they lock the park.

[cbuki]

Fountainhead doesn't reflect that balance I find myself annoyed everytime I ride there

------

just curious......why do you find yourself annoyed everytime you ride fountainhead?

------

[cbuki]

I'm not going to put forward a proximity discussion per the metro area- that is obvious, however, I'd challenge folks perspective that if they think all MTB is about is ripping highly technical and gnarly trails- they are missing out on many aspects of the sport. Now, there are some trail systems that are definitely boring and uninteresting- not worth the effort; but to characterize Wakefield and Accotink that way seems quite extreme.

----

you've divided MTBers into but two groups, those who "rip gnarly trails" and thus can'tt possibly enjoy the sublimity of their surroundings and thus miss out, and the rest.

i try to log 12-15 hours of hard riding a week. on great weeks i get 20 and on a lousy ones i get 4 or 5. that's the way it goes. but to get to the top of signal knob at elizabeth furnace or to climb coxey brown in gambrill, and do so well, just to cite two examples, requires many long hours of other kinds of riding that acquaint serious riders with bears (skyline), porcupines (central pennsylvania), rattlesnakes and cows and javelina (arizona), red tail hawks and cooper's hawks (fountainhad), and so on.

from my perspective, acco-wake is not for mountain biking. it may be for some kind of biking, but but mountain biking. and for those who are riding acco-wake, regardless of what kind of bike they are on and what kind of skill level is there, the positive side, it seems to me, is the existence of a trail of any kind in an otherwise banal suburban setting, and the negative side is that there's trash and overuse and the sound of cars.

i would rather spin in my dark basement or suffer the flatness of the terrain and fatness of the riders on the GW parkway if I could not find the time to get to Front Royal or the Watershe to actually ride and enjoy the setting.

finally, as for the busting a lung comment, biking IS ABOUT suffering. otherwise it is something else.

[Squirrel Girl]

finally, as for the busting a lung comment, biking IS ABOUT suffering. otherwise it is something else.So what is it that *I* do since I obviously don't do "biking" according to your definition? But answer quickly, I leave to lead the pokey ride at Fountainhead in about an hour. Where I will sweat a lot, enjoy the scenery. Maybe get to see another turtle or Scarlet Tanager, or best of all--squirrels. I will huff and puff, but most definitely not "bust a lung." I know I'm a wuss compared to you (and proud of it), but if I am not biking, what is it I'm doing?

[TrailVictim]

cbuki, what's the name of your alter ego? He's an opinionated bird for sure.

[Snot-Rocket]

Fountainhead doesn't reflect that balance I find myself annoyed everytime I ride there

------

just curious......why do you find yourself annoyed everytime you ride fountainhead?

------

Ha, ha- to steal from another MORE weenie- it feels like an "MTB-ghetto!" A chunk of trail to isolate the MTB User community in order to keep them out of the rest of the park...gratned, that is a perspective, nothing more. I hear the Trail Liasion for Fountainhead is really cool however- ha, ha!

I used to sneak out and ride fountainhead constantly in 2000- 2001 during the weekday when I did shift work. As time past, the trails kept getting wider and wider due to the significant use...the soil type in many places are such that it is really hard to sustain single track and minimize wear when folks are all over the place...everytime I go out there (which is like once or twice a year these days) some things are cool and some thing aren't like they used to be in a bad way and it is a bit disheartening. Plus, you always see some dude on a high-end bike with is girfriend in tow on some death machine- ha, ha! You're thinking what a dick...

On a practical level- I used to do like 5-10 laps around the parking lot so I was all warmed up before hitting the trail head because the trail was so instanly anaerobic and to have fun off the cuff I needed to be warmed up...

Being a stubborn mule, I'm not a fan of directional trails- recommended directional are cool, but not absolutely directional...there are some choices to be made, but there are limited.

Anyway, that's my perspective- which doesn't mean that fountainhead is not a great trail system for folks to enjoy...it is a great intermediate trail for folks to get their skills up for bigger and better adventures in the region. Folks who love it, I can see why and respect their rationale...but for me- no luv...

[ridethewomble]

cbuki said...

...or to climb coxey brown in gambrill...

Where is "coxey brown" at Gambrill? Just so we're all oriented to the same mental picture, let's assume the car is parked on the "lower" trailhead (the one with the map board and the red/white/green/yellow intersections) on Gambrill Park Road, and we'd ride the Yellow Trail clockwise.

Are you talking about the semi-fire road, loose, gravelly climb about two miles in? In other words, the one with the three big water bars that leads to the "Tea House" trailhead at the top of the hill? ...or are you talking about the technical climb on the "back" of the Yellow Loop (just after you finish the extended loop going clockwise, right after you duck back into the woods and go downhill)?

...or is there some mean monster of a climb on the Blue trail, or back in the 'Shed somewhere?

If there's an opportunity to suffer and be humbled that I'm missing, I'd like to try that bad boy out! :eek:

[cbuki]

Ha, ha- to steal from another MORE weenie- it feels like an "MTB-ghetto!" A chunk of trail to isolate the MTB User community in order to keep them out of the rest of the park...gratned, that is a perspective, nothing more. I hear the Trail Liasion for Fountainhead is really cool however- ha, ha!

I used to sneak out and ride fountainhead constantly in 2000- 2001 during the weekday when I did shift work. As time past, the trails kept getting wider and wider due to the significant use...the soil type in many places are such that it is really hard to sustain single track and minimize wear when folks are all over the place...everytime I go out there (which is like once or twice a year these days) some things are cool and some thing aren't like they used to be in a bad way and it is a bit disheartening. Plus, you always see some dude on a high-end bike with is girfriend in tow on some death machine- ha, ha! You're thinking what a dick...

On a practical level- I used to do like 5-10 laps around the parking lot so I was all warmed up before hitting the trail head because the trail was so instanly anaerobic and to have fun off the cuff I needed to be warmed up...

Being a stubborn mule, I'm not a fan of directional trails- recommended directional are cool, but not absolutely directional...there are some choices to be made, but there are limited.

Anyway, that's my perspective- which doesn't mean that fountainhead is not a great trail system for folks to enjoy...it is a great intermediate trail for folks to get their skills up for bigger and better adventures in the region. Folks who love it, I can see why and respect their rationale...but for me- no luv...




ya have to admit though the people who "built" fountainhead and who maintain it are amazing. no place is perfect for sure, but to have a place like fhead five miles from 123 or 95 is kinda great. i am not sure i'd call in a mtb ghetto though. riders rarely if ever seem to bunch up. the birds are terrific. the sun on the water is nice. there are cool shady parts. and you can genuinely be transported from the region if you have no more time to get further away.

[cbuki]

cbuki said...



Where is "coxey brown" at Gambrill? Just so we're all oriented to the same mental picture, let's assume the car is parked on the "lower" trailhead (the one with the map board and the red/white/green/yellow intersections) on Gambrill Park Road, and we'd ride the Yellow Trail clockwise.

Are you talking about the semi-fire road, loose, gravelly climb about two miles in? In other words, the one with the three big water bars that leads to the "Tea House" trailhead at the top of the hill? ...or are you talking about the technical climb on the "back" of the Yellow Loop (just after you finish the extended loop going clockwise, right after you duck back into the woods and go downhill)?

...or is there some mean monster of a climb on the Blue trail, or back in the 'Shed somewhere?

If there's an opportunity to suffer and be humbled that I'm missing, I'd like to try that bad boy out! :eek:




----

coxey brown is asphalt and so that kinda sucks. BUT, here's the excellent suffer part. you can string together a) a ride from downtown frederick up to gambrill park road by either climing shookestown and connecting with gambrill to ride to the yellow trail parking lot or the tea house above it, or ride from downtown frederick again up to gambrill park road but go up hamburg road. once you're up there you can loop yellow and/or blue and all manner of gravel roads - there's a good fire road beneath/traversing the power lines.

anyway, you get about 2 of 5/6 hours in and then you locate coxey brown - which is oh maybe 1/4 mi give or take from the intersection of gambrill and hamburg. ride to the bottom, and ride up. you will get a 2 mile climb of average grade over 9 percent with some section about 15-17 percent. if you do this between yellow and blue trail runs, you will suffer on a mountain bike. then you go towards watershed and hit that and the attendant fire roads, and if have any left, another coxey brown before heading home. i both hate it (it's a true beast on a mountain bike) and love it (great feeling of accomplishment).

i am thinking of entering the roanoke poor mountain climb this october if you are interested in buddying up. i hear that one is a beast!

[ridethewomble]

Wow - well, I heard the folks in Moab say you're weak if you don't ride Porcupine Rim from town, but this is the first time I've even contemplated Gambrill from town! :eek:

I think I've found her - I'll give it a try next time I'm up. It sounds like real punishment!

Coxey Brown at Gambrill (http://tinyurl.com/exhv4)

[cbuki]

i'll ride with ya some time if you want! if not or not soon, then, good luck to you and have a blast.

cb

[riderx]

----

coxey brown is asphalt and so that kinda sucks. Wellllllllll, that's not mountain biking...

[RetroG]

biking IS ABOUT suffering. otherwise it is something else.

A rode my bike last night. It was a mountain bike. I was on dirt singletrack. I went up, I went down. I didn't really suffer much. I had fun, at least it felt like fun to me. I had a smile on my face much of the time. I drank beer afterwards!
Fun indeed. I do believe I was mountainbiking, regardless of what another may think.

[joep]

I found the course suitable for my five year old neice in terms of difficulty, and about as pretty as the parking lot shrubbery at RFK. I don't get it.

What is there, maybe 15 feet of vertical over the whole circuit? Might as well be riding at Assateague at sea level.

Maybe I missed something.

I think you may have missed some trails. Did you get into the "new" trails or the "bowl" section? There's certainly more than 15ft of vertical there, although nothing close to fountainhead or liz furnace. The gravelly climb up the powerlines is also kinda fun and something I wouldn't take my 5 year old daughter on.

Come by on Mondays or Thursdays for the faster MORE rides. On yesterday's ride we did most of Wakefield and then proceeded to Accotink for more singletrack. We usually put in about two hours with very few short stops.

[ridethewomble]

Wow! I rode Coxey Brown this weekend. That is a fair grunt! :eek: I should have known it was a little steep when the Tacoma spun out in second gear going up one of the switchbacks. How steep is it? Well, the descent is the first time I've ever experienced brake fade with my discs. I passed a roadie on the way down, and felt like Michael Rasmussen for a little bit (fortunately, not M.R. on individual time trail day! :) )

I parked at the bottom of the hill, but that's not a good option, because it's all private property down there. Next time, I'll park at the Hamburg Road trailhead, and ride down and back up.

Yeah, it's paved, but if you want to work on the fitness side of climbing, I don't know of a better spot to do it. Besides - you can easily link a Coxey Brown ride into a Blue-to-Yellow Trail ride from either Hamburg road or a fire road that hits Gambrill Park Road near Coxey Brown, which is what I ended up doing.

Coxey Brown (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.504041,-77.509747&spn=0.024002,0.040525&hl=en)

[cbuki]

so pleased you tried it!!!! see!! connecting to blue and yellow becomes a great workout!

:) :)