Moonshine

[martin]

Is it legal to make in VA?

Know how?

[CRAIG2]

How does the saying go? Oh yeah - it's not a crime until you get caught.... LOL :)

No idea how to make it, though, did anyone see that reality series where they put the families out in the plains of North Dakota or something and made them live like they were in the 1800's? They could each bring in on thing from the modern day to help get by, and one of them actually did bring in a distiller and ended up making moonshine which he used to barter to get food, supplies, etc. Much objection from some who say this was a bad example to set for the younger viewers, but I found it interesting, and quite resourceful.

Craig

[CRAIG2]

Come to think of it, I think the series was called the Frontier Life or something.... we have it on DVD.

Craig

[halfinch]

i remember perusing a series of books a number of years back that were produced in appalachia. firefox series comes to mind. found them in the library, and they were very informative on how to do things in a traditional way. making dulicmers, kilns, etc..

i'd try that perhaps.

[bunky]

Here ya go--

http://homedistiller.org

Should definitely read this section re. safety concerns of methanol

http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm

Not sure if it is legal to produce.

I would imagine the real legal question would be whether you shipped/sold/transported in interstate commerce, for which I can guarantee there are myriad regulations/ taxes from the folks at BATF.

Otherwise the production of spirits for home consumption would be regulated by the state, pursuant to the 21st Amendment-which repealled the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) and left regulation, including plenary power to ban booze outright, to states. I would bet "the Commonwealth" is relatively laissez faire on the production for home consumption issue. :D

[bunky]

PS- Those in-flight shopping catalogues tend to have small kits consisting of bunsen burners (you rememeber from high school!!!) and a flask/ beaker with a built in glass condensing coil for distilling small volumes of spirits from your own homemade mash.

My great grandmother came from Italy and had a setup similar to this. It was/ is common for people to distill their own spirits (grappa) for entertainment and medicinal purposes, especially where the mash contains traditional healing herbs. Of course, when Prohibition hit, Nonna started getting strangers off the street looking for her herbal cure-alls.

The bottom line is (1) you should be able to buy a small kit, assuming you are not planning on taking on Jack Daniels and (2) yes, my great grandmother was a bootlegger of sorts, up in the hills of Vermont.

[TMayhew]

Virginia Code 4.1-314: No person shall keep, store or have in his possession any still, or distilling apparatus, without a permit from the (ABC) Board. Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall by guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

4.1-300 also prohibits the manufacture of alcoholic beverages in the Commonwealth without being licensed to manufacture such alcoholic beverages. The penalty for manufacturing without a license is a Class 6 felony.

Homebrewing however is perfectly legal. :)

[gaz]

But isn't homebrewing, by definition, "the manufacture of alcoholic beverages"?!

[CRAIG2]

It's only a crime if you get caught... LOL

[TMayhew]

But isn't homebrewing, by definition, "the manufacture of alcoholic beverages"?!

Yeah, but:

4.1-200. Exemptions from licensure.

The licensure requirements of this chapter shall not apply to:
...
6. Any person who manufactures at his residence or at a gourmet brewing shop for domestic consumption at his residence, but not to be sold, dispensed or given away, except as hereinafter provided, wine or beer or both, in an amount not to exceed the limits permitted by federal law...

I suppose martin could carbonate it and call it beer :D

[tuba_transport]

It's only a crime if you get caught... LOL

I am pretty sure it is always a crime.

[sigsegv]

Hey, I just found these links. Thought they might be helpful...

http://www.oldstatehouse.com/exhibits/changing/john-barleycorn/making_moonshine.asp

http://www.oldstatehouse.com/exhibits/changing/john-barleycorn/diagram_recipe.asp

Hope you don't show up at the next ride blind. ;)

-sig

[martin]

for all the info guys - I was just curious...

Went to a wedding in WV and the best man pulled out a flask of moonshine - some pretty powerfull stuff - and tasty to :)

Ever since then I've been curious about it - should have asked then and there - too drunk to think about it ;)

I do brew and figured the next step were some spirits...

I'll keep you posted.

but please, don't tell the law...

[hophead]

Is it legal to make in VA?

Know how?
Unlicensed distillation is illegal in all 50 states (DC too).

Making moonshine or any distilled spirit is much the same as making beer, but with an extra step or two.

First you prepare the "mash" which consists of whatever fermentables you choose. Since you mentioned "moonshine" the mash will be predominantly corn. The mash is brought up to starch conversion temperature which is around 155°F or so. The enzymes present will convert the starch in the mash to fermentable sugars. The mash is then cooled and yeast added. The mash will then ferment. Once fermentation has ceased, the mash is heated again. The steam that evaporates off is passed through a copper coil and cooled where it is collected as a liquid at the other end--and viola!! Moonshine.

I have not gotten into all the details here, but I'm sure you get the general idea.

But isn't homebrewing, by definition, "the manufacture of alcoholic beverages"?!
Yes it is. Manufacture of alcoholic beverages is not illegal--distillation is.

[Squirrel Girl]

When I was a grad student in NC, a local boy who was also a grad student would bring moonshine to social gatherings. I never did taste it.

However, I got to watch aguardiente being made in the mountains of Oaxaca, Mexico. It's nasty stuff. They squeeze the juice out of sugar cane, and pipe it into a barrel. To get the fermentation going, they boil the bark off of a particular tree. They boil it in a giant, flat metal pan reminiscent of a wok. They dump both the black liquid as well as the bark into the 5' tall barrel of canya (sugar juice). It fizzes for about a day in a sickly sea-green solution before they send it to the still.

The local land owner who owned that still proudly gave us a LOT (a couple gallons) of the aguardiente ("tooth water"). One of our people refused to drink the stuff and used it to burn the trash at our campsite.

I'll put it on my list of stuff to do to find the slides of the operation and then post 'em on my website.

[Squirrel Girl]

http://www.nbc4.com/news/5070199/detail.html

[DKEG]

http://www.nbc4.com/news/5070199/detail.html
Well there goes my supplier. Anyone know where I can score some shine?

[hophead]

Well there goes my supplier. Anyone know where I can score some shine?
I don't think you want to be drinking moonshine made in a trashcan anyway.

[Squirrel Girl]

I don't think you want to be drinking moonshine made in a trashcan anyway.Aw, come on. I'm sure it was a clean trashcan. My dad used to make beer in a trashcan when I was a kid.

Hmmm. On second thought. Maybe that's why I never learned to like beer. Or maybe it was because when I was a little tike my grandma used to give me tiny amounts of beer in miniature brandy snifters with bit of sugar dumped in.

Hmmm. Maybe this helps explains why I'm as strange as I am.......

[hophead]

It's not a cleanliness issue; it's a heavy metal one. Most pathogenic microbes would be killed during the mash and boil. Any survivors would die in the ethanol rich environment of the finished product. One of the reasons that distilling is illegal, even for personal consumption, is that items of less than food grade are often used in the production. Old automotive radiators with lead solder were often used as condensers. Who knows what is used in the manufacture of a metal trash can. I wouldn't be surprised to find lead in one of those either.

Off the trash can topic, but certain ingredients can contain toxins too. Many types of fruit, which are used in the production of some alcoholic beverages, contain cyanide compounds in their pits and seeds. The distillation process extracts those compounds from the seeds and concentrates them--sometimes to lethal levels.

So, if you decide to distill or drink someone elses distilled spirits, know how it was made and what ingredients were used. Condensers, mash tuns, fermenters, etc. should be made of copper or preferably stainless steel or even glass and only pitted or seeded fruits should be used.

[bunky]

It's not a cleanliness issue; it's a heavy metal one. Most pathogenic microbes would be killed during the mash and boil. Any survivors would die in the ethanol rich environment of the finished product. One of the reasons that distilling is illegal, even for personal consumption, is that items of less than food grade are often used in the production. Old automotive radiators with lead solder were often used as condensers. Who knows what is used in the manufacture of a metal trash can. I wouldn't be surprised to find lead in one of those either.

Off the trash can topic, but certain ingredients can contain toxins too. Many types of fruit, which are used in the production of some alcoholic beverages, contain cyanide compounds in their pits and seeds. The distillation process extracts those compounds from the seeds and concentrates them--sometimes to lethal levels.

So, if you decide to distill or drink someone elses distilled spirits, know how it was made and what ingredients were used. Condensers, mash tuns, fermenters, etc. should be made of copper or preferably stainless steel or even glass and only pitted or seeded fruits should be used.

In addition, not all of the alcohol that is produced as a byproduct of fermentation is ethanol. During the first few minutes of distillation, a certain amount of methanol is also condensed, especially when distilling form sources rich in pectin.

See below:

http://www.homedistiller.org/methanol.htm

It would be a bummer to go blind because somebody didn't know what they were doing. While I am generally a DIY type of guy, this might be a case where you want to leave the work to JD and friends.

[Squirrel Girl]

You're mighty knowledgable about all this, hophead! But then, maybe it relates to "hophead"! :)

I think I had a big Rubbermaid tub-type trash can in mind. Possibly lined with a plastic bag.

Yeah! And be sure not to put any leaves in if you make rhubarb hooch!

[CRAIG2]

Didn't they say that there was something else that would make you go blind? :)

[Squirrel Girl]

Didn't they say that there was something else that would make you go blind? :)Gaz said he was going blind from looking at that picture of drevil in his gold spandex jumpsuit. But I don't think that's what you're referring to! :rolleyes: Is it? ;)

[hophead]

I think I had a big Rubbermaid tub-type trash can in mind. Possibly lined with a plastic bag.
You could use a rubbermaid trashcan as a fermenter for making beer--might taste a little funny, but it won't kill ya.

All vessels used in the process of making spirits are subject to high temperatures, so plastics are out. The finished products are often packaged in plastic milk jugs, but that's about the extent of the use of plastic.

And yes, Methanol is a nasty and highly toxic kissin' cousin of yummy Ethanol. There are also many fussil alcohols that are produced by yeast and concentrated in the distilling process if the fermentation takes place at too high a temperature. While these higher alcohols won't kill you, they may make you wish you were dead the next day.

[CRAIG2]

Gaz said he was going blind from looking at that picture of drevil in his gold spandex jumpsuit. But I don't think that's what you're referring to! :rolleyes: Is it? ;)


no... but that didn't help either. Gold isn't Ricky's color... :D

[Squirrel Girl]

Ok, Mr. hophead. So here's a question for ya. While we're on the topic of plastic bottles. Why is it that I go to the grocery store and buy a bottle of water. Be it a nice clear one with my favorite Evian in it. Or a translucent bottle with generic spring water in it. Either way, the water tastes fine.

Then, I dig out an old bicycle water bottle and stuff it in my cage, forgetting to replace the water and YUCK! It's tastes horribly plasticy. I get all dehydrated as I wait till I get to a fresh water source to replace it.

And that happens with reasonably old water bottles that I would have thought would have the time to degas.

What's the deal, do you know??

And, yeah, someone analyzed the aguardiente from down in Mexico and it definitely had fusel oil in it.

[drewdane]

Virginia Code 4.1-314: No person shall keep, store or have in his possession any still, or distilling apparatus, without a permit from the (ABC) Board. Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall by guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

4.1-300 also prohibits the manufacture of alcoholic beverages in the Commonwealth without being licensed to manufacture such alcoholic beverages. The penalty for manufacturing without a license is a Class 6 felony.

How thoroughly retarded! I'm not interested in doing so, but if wanted to distill myself a batch of hooch, with no intent to sell same, then why the heck not? :mad:

[Squirrel Girl]

How thoroughly retarded! I'm not interested in doing so, but if wanted to distill myself a batch of hooch, with no intent to sell same, then why the heck not? :mad:Drew!! I want to shoot myself up with heroine I processed out of poppies I grew in my backyard! I'm not planning to sell it, why the heck not?

OK, sarcasm aside (I most assuredly am NOT growing poppies, and I DON'T do illegal drugs). There are a zillion laws stopping us from doing things. The idea with heroine, I presume are due to its addictive nature, it's problem with impacts on society as a whole. Yes, I know you can buy other regulated companies' alcohol, but not heroine. But nevertheless, society has many rules that restrict our behavior. One could argue that not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle (why the heck not?) harms only the rider. But I could also argue that the ramifications of a person getting his/her brains splatted on the pavement are far more wide reaching than just that one person.

We can argue the relative merits of any given law, but I think I've just given some reasons why there are laws in this category.

[Dirt]

Just distill it anyways and if you get caught, say that you're making bio-diesel for your car. It would help if you had a car that was capable of running on bio-diesel.

Note to self... purchase old VW rabbit diesel car.

PEte

[hophead]

Ok, Mr. hophead. So here's a question for ya. While we're on the topic of plastic bottles. Why is it that I go to the grocery store and buy a bottle of water. Be it a nice clear one with my favorite Evian in it. Or a translucent bottle with generic spring water in it. Either way, the water tastes fine.
The stuff that you buy from the store is packaged in a PET bottle (polyethylene terephthalate) Say that 10 times fast. Anyway, PET bottles are great because, as you pointed out, they do not impart that plastic taste to their contents. The drawback is that PET bottles are a bit fragile. Squeeze one and the contents may end up on your lap.

The water bottles used by cyclists are made from LDPE or HDPE (high or low density polyethylene) They are very durable, but will give your water that funny plastic taste. The longer the water is exposed to the plastic, the stronger the taste.

[Squirrel Girl]

The stuff that you buy from the store is packaged in a PET bottle (polyethylene terephthalate) Say that 10 times fast. Anyway, PET bottles are great because, as you pointed out, they do not impart that plastic taste to their contents. The drawback is that PET bottles are a bit fragile. Squeeze one and the contents may end up on your lap.

The water bottles used by cyclists are made from LDPE or HDPE (high or low density polyethylene) They are very durable, but will give your water that funny plastic taste. The longer the water is exposed to the plastic, the stronger the taste.Yeah, I was pretty sure that the cyclist's bottles were LDPE. But it's so often used in lab work, that I'm surprised that it does such a nasty job of imparting plastic to it's contents. I have an unused white cycling bottle. I wonder if it's HDPE? Is it as bad in terms of plasticy taste?

I guess those drinking bottles do have recycling symbols on them, so they must be different than the polyethylene. I considered that Jason would tell me "Hey stupid, try googling," or whatever that website was he found. But for work, I've been doing a lot of googling on chemical names, and you get tons of MSDSs, but not the info I'm looking for! So, since you seemed to be knowledgable, I decided to pick your brain.

Your comment makes me think how a couple days ago, a rubbermaid tub of spaghetti sauce slipped out of my hand and crashed to the floor, cracking the tub and making a HUGE mess. Puh!

Thanks for the info!

[hophead]

I have an unused white cycling bottle. I wonder if it's HDPE? Is it as bad in terms of plasticy taste?

Dunno. My knowlege of plastics is limited. The only reason that I know anything about them is from brewing. I have an HDPE fermenter so I would think that it would be less likely to impart flavor than LDPE, but that's just an educated guess.
I also have a small fermenter made of Lexan. Not sure what the hell that stuff is, but it's hard and wouldn't make a very good water bottle.

[Squirrel Girl]

I also have a small fermenter made of Lexan. Not sure what the hell that stuff is, but it's hard and wouldn't make a very good water bottle.Lexan is that clear plastic (hard) stuff that, for instance, REI uses to make mugs for camping.

Polycarbonate can be used to for regular water bottles, but it is hard, too, so it wouldn't be squeezable. They also linked it to cancer (or some disease), but I don't recall the conditions, it may have to be holding hot food/bevs to get the plastic to leak into the food/bev.

Actually, sometimes I re-use gatorade bottles with squirt tops.

[Squirrel Girl]

Make your own moonshine instead of gasahol (http://www.channelcincinnati.com/irresistible/9040469/detail.html)

[bukit]

I used to work at a restaurant out in Herndon some years back. The manager there was a bit of a good ol' boy and brought in some moonshine one day. It was good.

Kicker is, I SAW him run his car on it.

Ouch.

-buKit

[redneckp3ngu1n]

Its illegal to make it and i belive its illegal to own the tools (still) necisary to make it unless u have a licence because u work for a labratory. The skool tought us how to make it for organic chemistry :D I wouldnt recomend putting alot in your car. It burns very hot and it WILL distroy your engine very quickly if u use too much.