Economical Tandem MTB

[Snot-Rocket]

Anyone know where a body can get an Tandem MTB frame or a bike...I've been cruising the net trying to find an economical options...

Primary use will be Rails-to-trails, Cross County Trail, around Accotink, C&O and with a kid in tow in a trailer or Tag-along...

It is like the options are either total Junk or way expensive...

Ideas, thoughts?

Joy,

[saxman]

I sold a tandem to DT back in January, but it definitely fit into the "junk" category. There really isn't too much middle ground in the world of tandems.

The tandem was about $200 new, and it rode and held together like a $200 bicycle. It tipped the scales at 63 pounds. Talk about feeling like you're driving a truck! When we were looking for a tandem (which was over 5 or 6 years ago), there were some used Trek tandems that were around $1000. I don't know if you can still find them at that kind of price point.

[HeadSet]

you might try getting in touch with Larry Black up at Mt Airy bikes, he always has something hiding behind a door that is of interest
Another place to look is mtbtandems.com talk with Alex 678 234-6701
mtb tandems has their own line of hard tail mtb tandems that look pretty nice
he sometimes has demo bikes that are pretty reasonable
and of course, send a note to Pete Beeres...he is the master of off road tandems

[markie]

I have seen a few nice tandems go on ebay for not that much money. Then again I guess shipping would be problematic.

[Dirt]

MTBTandems.com is great. You won't find a better dealer to deal with. They have some frames made for them that are REALLY nice. Fandango is the name of the frames. They have some build kits that come out to be pretty dang reasonable for anything from a "trail" bike to something that is truly off-roadable.

Pete

[Snot-Rocket]

Thanks- MTBTandems.com rocks- I wonder why I didn't get that on a query search?

Any comments on components that must be "Tandem Specific?" Areas of specific interest:

Front Brakes- can you survive with a 6" rotor?
Fork (I have a Marzocchi Z1 w/ Extra Firm Springs)- or I might just order their rigid fork...?
Rear Hub?

Thanks,

[Dirt]

I 6" rotor disc brake will make braking more of a suggestion than anything else. Your Marzocchi will be a total noodle under you. I found that Marzocchi double crown forks were barely rigid enough. Lighter teams can get away with the dirt jumper forks. Guys like you and me need something with a bit more beef to them. If you can't swing getting one of the dual crown forks that Alex sells, just go with the rigid and a big honkin' front tire.

Hubs are a tough one too. There are few that hold up well under normal off-road tandem use. Hadley, King and White Industries are the only ones that I've got to last. Phil Wood just came out with revamped seals on their freehub that I've heard makes them an option for the first time.

If you go with really low gearing (24x34 or smaller), you're going to challenge the ability of the drivetrain components to hold up.

LX cogs seem to work the best. Make sure that the hub that you get has a steel freehub body if you use them. Any of the Shimano casettes that have the alloy carrier for the larger cogs are prone to folding the cogs when you go up a steep hill.

ChucksBikes.com had a good deal on Truvative tandem cranks. Full set with rings and bottom brackets for $150. I got a set for the Santanna. They work well. The timing chainrings are a little large (38t) as is the granny gear (28t). The 28t granny, as mentioned above, will save you broken chains, folded cogs and exploded hubs.

When it comes to shifting components, I have found it more important to be able to trim the front derailleur on a tandem than on a single. Since the front derailleur is way back under your stoker, you kind of need to depend on them.

When starting out, I'd use narrow bars for the stoker. This reduces their leverage and thus their ability to steer from the back seat. It also protects their hands as you learn to captain.

I need to get to bed. I've been going since 3am. I'll write more about tandem crapola tomorrow.

Pete

[Snot-Rocket]

Peter Thanks- feel free to add more- I'm sure other folks are paying attention!

It will likely take me the winter to build up this bike for next Spring- I have to get past the Household POM process to obligate funding for this activity. I've been challenged with arguments about stuff like Kitchen Appliances and what not- WTH!?!?! Granted, this is just a detail...

I would like some insight from a Stokers(?) perspective- concern has been elevated about nose to arse orientation of the Stoker and how flatulence is addressed on the trail?

The Fandango Frame is the perfect price- thanks for the site, it is awesome, I'm learning quite a bit...

Rah,

[riderx]

I would like some insight from a Stokers(?) perspective- concern has been elevated about nose to arse orientation of the Stoker and how flatulence is addressed on the trail?This sounds like a dangerous position. Did you ever seen the Seinfeld episode where Kramer feeds the horse Beef-a-reeno (http://www.seinology.com/scripts/script-121.shtml)?

[Dirt]

Tandems have improved since I got mine 13 years ago. One of the biggest improvements has been in the nose-to-butt distance. The top tubes on modern off-road tandems are much longer for the stoker. I think the Fandango's stoker top tube is almost 3" longer than that on my Santana. The chainstays are shorter too, so it doesn't affect handling quite as much. 3" doesn't sound like a lot, but it is.

There are a few other things that you can do to make life a little nicer for your stoker. I don't usually wear a camelback when we ride the tandem. That gives the stoker a little more room. I can't really drink when we're riding in this part of the country anyways. There's always a turn, root, rock or log that we're going over and I don't have time to concentrate on drinking. I stop from time to time to let both of us drink.

Be careful about what you eat for a day or two before going on a tandem ride. The best way I describe it is to say that you should avoid any foods that would make it unpleasant for someone to be immediately behind you. 'nuff said.

This brings up the #1 rule about tandemming. The stoker is always right. If your stoker isn't happy, then you're not going to have anyone to ride with.

More in a few.

Pete

[Dirt]

I worked in a shop that concentrated on selling tandems for a year or two. There is a specific technique that I learned for selling tandems. Sometimes just learning about that technique helps people who are new to tandemming.

Never sell a tandem to one person. The reason you do this is because if the stoker isn't in on the purchasing process, they're probably not on board with the purchase. Trust me, it is a very rare thing for one person to buy a tandem and then convince the other to ride it after the fact. I've only seen it happen once.

There is a very specific way that I take people for test rides on a tandem. It works amazingly well and it helps the team learn to ride together down the road. Maybe reading about this will help you learn to ride well together with your wife. It also makes for a somewhat interesting read.

Once we get to the point where people are ready to test ride, I set the tandem up so that I can ride captain, and the person who is going to be captain is riding as stoker. I take them out and I ride like a total idiot. I make sharp turns without warning them. I ride close to cars and light posts. I hit bumps and don't warn them. I change pedaling cadence regularly. I shift gears without warning. I stop and start pedaling at strange times. I hit the brakes for no reason and without warning once or twice just for grins. The goal is to scare the pants off the guy who's going to be captain. Show them what it's like to ride with a total kamikaze as a captain.

Head back to the shop and set up for the new stoker to go out. When the stoker sees how rattled the captain is, they'll be a little unsure about getting on the bike with me. They do get on though.

When you head out with the stoker, you take it nice and easy. You announce any moves that you're making. You point out how pretty the flowers and trees are. You ride nice and smooth like a good captain should. You show them how wonderful riding on a tandem is.

When you get back to the shop, the stoker thinks the captain is a big wuss for being shaken up by our test ride, and the captain is still a bit tentative and REALLY doesn't want to behave the way I did on my ride. You send them out together.

The captain is then very courtious and announces any shifting, pedaling changes, turns or bumps. The stoker enjoys the ride and doesn't mind that they're a little wobbly together when they go out.

That sets the mood for them riding as a team.

There will always be times when the captain or stoker screw up and something weird happens. If a team has a good relationship on the bike, they build up an element of trust between the riders. That makes for a team that progresses in their riding.

Your wife may never get to the point where she's ready to go for some gonzo off-roading. It takes a good bond between captain and stoker to really be ready for that sort of thing. I'm VERY fortunate to have a good stoker that enjoys doing really funky, technical stuff. We've ridden stuff like Fountainhead and Schaeffer together for years. Riding stuff like Shockabilly is a heck of a lot of fun on a tandem. It is cool when you get to ride stuff like that. Don't count on it happening for the first year or two that you're riding with a new stoker.

More to come....

Pete

[Dirt]

I thought of a few more things...

Get a good suspension post for the stoker. We use a thudbuster.... the long travel one. Take the time to really set it up for your stoker. They come with different elastomers. Having it set up right makes a big difference. Get the perfect saddle for your stoker too. Make sure the stoker is as comfortable as possible.

When it comes to riding, the stoker has as much to do with steering the bike as the captain does. I can feel when a stoker is balanced and neutral on the bike. If the stoker moves a little to the right, that is the way the bike is turning.

This year I went out with a new stoker for the first time. It was the first time I'd ridden with a new stoker in a few years. This stoker was AMAZING for a beginning stoker. They were very well balanced and worked hard to be neutral. It still felt a little wobbly. Getting rid of that feeling is something that comes with time and experience. (it didn't help that this first ride was done in 3" of new snow and at night).

I hope that helps.

Pete

[Snot-Rocket]

You should aggregate all of this for Mark W. as a MORE Article- makes for great reading- helpul and entertaining. The next article for MORE I'm doing is all about Luv on Wheels (Couples riding)...ha, ha!

I have no plans for hardcore MTB w/ this Tandem for quite some while- maybe when my son grows up...ideally a Vacation Bike, Urban Excursion and fun, but friendly trails only- I don't see Household 6 being up to Fountain Head on a Tandem- ha, ha!

I've already learned to direct my 'Snot-Rockets' down and away- so the flatulence issue is too easy, granted, I have to gain the trust of the Stoker.

The suspension seat post is a good idea- I gotta check if a 5'3" person can straddle a 17" TT...that will give both of us a more comfortable TT and increase the nose to arse distance.

Ha, ha...

[TMayhew]

I would like some insight from a Stokers(?) perspective- concern has been elevated about nose to arse orientation of the Stoker and how flatulence is addressed on the trail?

Funny that my first thought upon seeing your name under a Tandem subject line was "poor Mary..." :D

Tim

[Snot-Rocket]

Funny that my first thought upon seeing your name under a Tandem subject line was "poor Mary..." :D

Tim

I was thinking you'd be the stoker????