2010 Patapsco - Avalon Conditions thread

[ForestBear]

I was snowshoeing off of the Hilton area yesterday, had fresh tracks the whole time and didn't see any tracks other than animals. Without more people getting back there on CC ski's and snowshoes it will be a long while before its packed enough for riding.

[punga]

With 500+ messages, it was time to start a new thread. :thumbsup:

[euler]

I'll be snowshoeing there tomorrow, late afternoon. Maybe Friday too if anyone's interested in joining.

[WeeK]

If you people could bring some shamwows and dry it up it would be most appreciated.:thumbsup:

Are they going to allow racing there in a Month?

[leroy]

I bet the trails have seem plently of downed trees, limbs, etc.. I tried CC sking some trails in a local park and at times I could not find the trail with all the carnage

[atldc9]

I hiked through the HoCo side today. It's about 50/50. Landing Road(Cascade trail) is a stream, and by far the worst of any trail I was on today. Ridge is half dry, half snow. The Rockburn Park was actually in the best condition of anything. Most of the trails I saw were snow free, again Ridge was 50/50. Pray for warmth.

[bikerRob]

I hiked through the HoCo side today. It's about 50/50. Landing Road(Cascade trail) is a stream, and by far the worst of any trail I was on today. Ridge is half dry, half snow. The Rockburn Park was actually in the best condition of anything. Most of the trails I saw were snow free, again Ridge was 50/50. Pray for warmth.

Yeah, that is about what I saw on Sunday..roughly 50/50. Temps the rest of the week look to be in the upper 50's during the day with some warmer stuff for the weekend. That just might be enough to rid us of snow for next week. Of course THEN you have to see how well the trails dry out and pray it doesn't rain for a while.

[stanley02]

I hiked through the HoCo side today. It's about 50/50. Landing Road(Cascade trail) is a stream, and by far the worst of any trail I was on today. Ridge is half dry, half snow. The Rockburn Park was actually in the best condition of anything. Most of the trails I saw were snow free, again Ridge was 50/50. Pray for warmth.

I went out during lunch yesterday and saw about the same over near Morning Choice. I thought at first it looked good the trail looked dry and then I got to the top of a hill and looked down and the trail was still covered with snow and the trail soaked.

[atldc9]

Went through Rockburn, Horse farm, ridge, and cascade today. Mostly tacky, with some spots. Saw the ranger who was very pleased with conditions and said looking good for the race this weekend. As usual, Cascade trail is the worst. Maybe they could reroute away from that trail for the race.

Keep drying!!!

[bikerRob]

Went through Rockburn, Horse farm, ridge, and cascade today. Mostly tacky, with some spots. Saw the ranger who was very pleased with conditions and said looking good for the race this weekend. As usual, Cascade trail is the worst. Maybe they could reroute away from that trail for the race.

Keep drying!!!

I know I've been wrong before but..A RACE! It's dry enough for a race! They got to be kidding. Can anyone confirm this? I realize there has been some drying, that's good to hear but Yeah, I knew Cascade would be the last to recover. Well if true I guess this is good news. Why then does my gut keep telling me something is wrong here. :confused: ( tomorrow I'm gonna have to have a look-see )

[xmynameisdan]

Yes, it will be dry enough for a race by Saturday. I was out there yesterday, there were a few mud pits in the usual places, but it was much more dry than I would have ever expected.

Also realize that the park makes the final call on whether the race happens or not; not the race promoter.

[BikerMiker]

Reason #428 not to race at Patapsco... Like that place needs more people riding...

mk

[xmynameisdan]

Yeah, I guess having a race at a popular park supporting a good cause is a terrible idea.

[bikerRob]

I know I've been wrong before but..

3/20/10, 3:31am >> ...AND...it looks like I'm wrong again..:confused2:
Just before leaving for work this afternoon I took a quick detour to check out the Cascade trail head. Took me all of one minute to see what I didn't think possible...Patapsco is almost completely dry, well maybe a little tacky in spots. Even the usual rutted area was rutless and mud free. After looking it over I was saddened that I had to go to work...such is life. Once again, Patapsco is such a hard area to judge unless you are looking right at it. Who would of thought after the big thaw and the four days of rain that it would of been in such good condition? ( not me said the flee ..:rolleyes: )

Apologies to the people who's word I questioned. Sometimes people are a little over anxious to get out and ride early in the season. That was the reason for my doubt. I've never seen conditions this good so early in the year...I hope it stays this way for a while.

Now with all this said I think it's unfortunate that a race is taking place during the first good weekend of the year. Those people anxious to get out and walk their dogs are going to get a big surprise come Saturday morning.

[kevin29r]

I rode part of the Baltimore side yesterday, and was pleasantly surprised that the usual mud holes were fairly dry. On the other hand, there were new wet areas. So, yes, the trail conditions are pretty unpredictable after a rain. The harsh winter and the heavy rains this month have created these new problems. Vineyard Spring trail now has a stream flowing along its center for a hundred feet or so. Even the paved Grist Mill trail is in bad shape for roadies passing through. Go ride, but do it with caution.

[old_bashturd]

We rode the HO CO side this afternoon, from the farm loop through Cascade and were surprised how dry it was. Overall, pretty good conditions. Some muddy spots on Cascade, and some on the Farm loop. Some ride around damage in those spots, but not too bad. Just think, its only been a few weeks since the trails were buried in snow. Surprisingly good.

[DaveG]

We rode the HO CO side this afternoon, from the farm loop through Cascade and were surprised how dry it was. Overall, pretty good conditions. Some muddy spots on Cascade, and some on the Farm loop. Some ride around damage in those spots, but not too bad. Just think, its only been a few weeks since the trails were buried in snow. Surprisingly good.

I think the trails are better now than they were this time last year. Nobody could use them almost all winter, and then BOOM; a week of warm weather and rain followed by a week of dry warm weather just cleared it all up. I rode the seneca greenway today and it was in very good shape for early spring.

[BikerMiker]

I was disappointed they ran the race on Saturday. I made the mistake of making the decision to ride based on the fact that the race was happening. Big mistake. Too much of the trail was too wet to ride on Saturday. I wish I hadn't gone out there.

Oh well...

mk

[kakarle]

i rode on friday and with the exception of the soapstone trail i thought the conditions were good. i little moist and grippy. totally rippable.

[dirtychain]

A few of us got in a good ride on Sunday AM. We stayed off of the most popular trails and did not ride any of the racecourse. Conditions we experienced were great :thumbsup:

But the last day and a half of rain has most likely changed that :(

[mtbGreg]

Anybody have intel on whether or not the trails are drying up in this sun and breeze? Going to ride tonight. Trying to decide between dirt and road. Any info would be appreciated!

Greg

[atldc9]

I rode today- Very much like race day. Most of the trails are in good condition, but the small trouble spots are horrible. I'd say 90% good conditions. Cascade has dried up significantly since before the race.

[shuttlenut]

http://www.wbaltv.com/video/22965538/index.html

Damn trains riding wet trails...

[CGrr]

Was thinking about riding at Patapsco around 3pm on Wed. Whats the chance that the trails will be dry enough to ride? Is there any trail I should avoid after the rain we've had?

[leroy]

You should be good to go. The rainfall totals were not much and its been boney dry. The wind today will help dry things up also. Go ride! Get it in tomorrow because things (lots of rain) don't look good for Thursday.

[CGrr]

Good. Thanks for the info.

[dirtychain]

Good. Thanks for the info.

I'll do a pre- night ride loop. Where you planning to launch from? If I can get out of the office early, maybe we can hook up.

Lemmyno, Scott

[CGrr]

I'm still getting familiar with the area. I've started from Avalon, the Rolling Rd. park and ride, and McKeldin. I noticed that there is a parking lot off of what I think may be the Morning Choice trail, was thinking about starting from there, even though starting from the park and ride is cool too.

[dirtychain]

I don't use the P&R anymore. Ongoing security issues with vehicle break in's.

When we hit the trail from the Balto County side, we usually park at CCBC. It's a well lit lot with security patrols and we have permission from the school to park there. See map link....

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=118115284060657156354.00000112 f829ffa3f7202&t=h&z=15

The trailhead lies just behind the tennis courts.

[CGrr]

Which part of the trail starts at the CCBC parking lot?

[dirtychain]

Which part of the trail starts at the CCBC parking lot?

It connects to the Santee Branch Trail. I'd be happy to show you around.

We have a weekly night ride beginning at 6:00PM tonight. But my fear is the rain will have moved in by then. So I'm hoping to get out earlier and beat the rain.

[CGrr]

Sounds good. I`ll be at CCBC by 3pm, driving a black Saturn. See you there.

[dirtychain]

10-4. Dark Blue VW Passat Wagon here. If I get stuck at work, I'll post up ASAP.

L8R, Scott

[cbass]

I just got a report that the HoCo side is great at this moment. Get out there before the rain arrives.

[dirtychain]

Sounds good. I`ll be at CCBC by 3pm, driving a black Saturn. See you there.

Sorry dude! The rain beat us to it :( I'm gonna bail. You should come out for a Wednesday night ride......

http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2010-9-29&e=1685&c=2

Cheers!

[CGrr]

Yeah. My meeting ended, I got changed, walked outside, and D`oh (with long sustained echo). Oh, well. Yeah, I`ve been eyeing those night rides.

[kenzen410]

What are the chances that the trails will decent Saturday morning after today's onslaught of rain? Think I should hold off until Sunday?

[dirtychain]

Yeah. My meeting ended, I got changed, walked outside, and D`oh (with long sustained echo). Oh, well. Yeah, I`ve been eyeing those night rides.

I made a bad call :bangshead: After watching it drizzle & clear back & forth for an hour, I said screw it, I'm going. Hit the trail around 4:15 (in a light drizzle), trails were excellent! Crashed my brains out on some wet roots, got back to CCBC scraped & bleeding around 6:00 , met a few folks for the night ride, borrowed a band-aid (thanks Todd) & put in another two hours of rain free night riding :D

[dirtychain]

What are the chances that the trails will decent Saturday morning after today's onslaught of rain? Think I should hold off until Sunday?

Biblical rain out there today, Sunday may be do-able. Just be prepared to bail if it's too sloppy.

And I see more rain forecast for early next week. I know trails were a little "too" dry, but jeez!

[CGrr]

I made a bad call :bangshead: After watching it drizzle & clear back & forth for an hour, I said screw it, I'm going. Hit the trail around 4:15 (in a light drizzle), trails were excellent! Crashed my brains out on some wet roots, got back to CCBC scraped & bleeding around 6:00 , met a few folks for the night ride, borrowed a band-aid (thanks Todd) & put in another two hours of rain free night riding :D

D'oh! I was wondering if I should've gone anyhow but I'm not familiar enough with the terrain to know how the trails there respond to the weather. Next time.

[jago61]

any update on conditions for a possible sunday ride?

[kenzen410]

I did a road ride through patapsco and passed a rider at the swinging bridge. He said it wasn't really muddy, just washed-out in places.

[vicstoe]

Patapsco is in great shape, both sides. Go ride!!

[cbass]

Yup. Excellent conditions on both sides.

[kdweb]

I did a little road ride up into the Orange and Avalon area today and on the way back from Ellicott City I was surprised by the new paved trail south of the swinging bridge on the Baltimore County side! Sweet...no more snake bite flats! And what's the work at the old factory at River and Hilltop? Who do I have to thank for all this, Omalley or Obama? Anybody know?

[cbass]

We hit most of the HoCo side this morning and conditions are good. A few of the spots that traditionally get muddy are slightly top slick, but not muddy. 95% of the trails are firm and in good condition. The wind from earlier this week blew a lot of debris around so watch out for random branches on the trail. Additionally, the leaves are damp and can make for some fun loss of traction at times. Enjoy!

[raymo853]

Would anyone know if riding on Sat is a big no no considering the portions open to hunting on Sats?

[jon_baler]

Would anyone know if riding on Sat is a big no no considering the portions open to hunting on Sats?

No hunting is allowed in the Avalon and surrounding areas. Here is the details.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/central/HuntingBook_2009-2010.pdf

Was out this morning, and conditions were nice and frozen. Starting to thaw now though.....

[atldc9]

I did a little road ride up into the Orange and Avalon area today and on the way back from Ellicott City I was surprised by the new paved trail south of the swinging bridge on the Baltimore County side! Sweet...no more snake bite flats! And what's the work at the old factory at River and Hilltop? Who do I have to thank for all this, Omalley or Obama? Anybody know?

The work at the factory is the removal of the Simpkins Dam. It's out and flowing free!

[kenzen410]

So can any of you regular winter riders fill me in on the rules of thumb regarding the best times to ride in the winter? I've heard that early morning is good because the ground is frozen, and when the ground starts to thaw it gets slippery and muddy. What times are best to hit up the trails in the winter?

[jon_baler]

So can any of you regular winter riders fill me in on the rules of thumb regarding the best times to ride in the winter? I've heard that early morning is good because the ground is frozen, and when the ground starts to thaw it gets slippery and muddy. What times are best to hit up the trails in the winter?

yeah, morning is usually best due to frozen trails. The trails never really dry out in the winter, and the only chance to ride is when frozen. Just watch the forecast to see if temps are below freezing, and use a little judgement. On cold days, they'll stay frozen all day but just clear skies and sun can melt them, too.

[atldc9]

The colder the better. It gets rock hard and fast. Great traction. I love riding in the winter. Watch the stream crossings, the water will sometimes freeze your cables as they route under the frame and your shifting will be frozen.

Plus you get to see all the places where you wish there were trails. Idea #1- a trail similar to the Ridge trail, but on the Baltimore County side running along the ridge from Buzzards all the way to Vineyard. That would rock!!!

[escatmore]

agreed. it's been on the wish list for a while. maybe one day...

eric

[atldc9]

What needs to be done to make it happen? Winter is a good time to lay it out.

[escatmore]

HA! buy-in from the management. They have many fish in the pan...

[kenzen410]

Watch the stream crossings

Went for a short hooky ride this morning, and yeah it's nice and fast until you hit a stream. What do you do when half the stream is frozen? Just ride through it? It's not the ice on the derailleurs that had me worried, but the prospect of a face plant on a rock when my front tire slips out on wet ice (face meet cold wet rock. and by the way now you're soaked, too :). Probably if I wasn't alone I would have plowed on through.

[atldc9]

Yeah- It was nice out there today! A little slick, but I think its time for me to switch tires for the winter. I tread very carefully on the stream crossings this time of year, and try to do loops with as few as possible. Still great riding conditions!

[old_bashturd]

This morning. Hope it stays cold

[kenzen410]

Anyone have the scoop? Rideable or too deep, too messy?

[jboyd122]

Ken, I'll come out and give it a try with you this weekend if you feel up to it. I can go Saturday or Sunday morning.

[kenzen410]

Trying to get people together here (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2011-1-29&e=1788&c=2)

[kenzen410]

Tried to ride this morning from CCBC, but snow deep and untracked. Too deep for me, so I turned back. YMMV.

Hiker on the trail said there are lots of downed trees and branches, as one would expect.

[raymo853]

If deep snow, a cross bike would probably work pretty well. That is my plan for Sunday morning.

[cbass]

Too deep to ride.

[cbass]

If deep snow, a cross bike would probably work pretty well. That is my plan for Sunday morning.

Cross bike ain't gonna cut. Bring the skis.

[drevil]

Cross bike ain't gonna cut. Bring the skis.

I just finished a four hour hike/bike at Avalon. I was the first person to ride through the snow for most/all of Ridge and half of it (at least) was pushing the bike. The trails and field behind those two busted houses were also mostly pushing.

I had my fat front Jones. Made riding slightly easier than my friends who used normal tires. If tomorrow is like today, be prepared for lots of hiking/pushing/slogging.

[raymo853]

Cross bike ain't gonna cut. Bring the skis.

I have done back to back riding on a cross bike, 29er and 26 to test this. In non-iced up snow, cross is the best. Matches with the logical for auto snow tires, the taller and narrow the better.

[kenzen410]

I have done back to back riding on a cross bike, 29er and 26 to test this. In non-iced up snow, cross is the best. Matches with the logical for auto snow tires, the taller and narrow the better.

Not that I don't doubt your experience, but why this (http://moots.com/afternoon-ti/snow-biking-arrowhead-135/)?

[riderx]

I have done back to back riding on a cross bike, 29er and 26 to test this. In non-iced up snow, cross is the best. Matches with the logical for auto snow tires, the taller and narrow the better.
I have to disagree. Cars and bikes are way different (for instance, the engine and the total weight, 2 huge factors). On the road in a little snow on level ground, maybe the skinny tire performs better but overall for trail riding, fat tires at low pressure outperform skinny tires by a lot in my experience. Contact patch becomes king as well as the float. There is a reason snowshoes work better than hiking boots when it gets deep.

[stanley02]

Anyone have an thoughts about the trail conditiontion early tomorrow morning. Going to be below freezing tonight. Don't want to get up early if they aren't rideable.

[jboyd122]

Stanley,

Did you make it out? How were the trails?

[ExigeS]

Trails are ridable but icey and you will need to clear trees as you go. This is 2nd hand info from a friend who rode them today.

[stanley02]

Stanley,

Did you make it out? How were the trails?
I didn't get up early for a ride the other day, but I did head up to the trail during my lunch. The trail looked rideable but icey. Out in the open there was a little slush because of the sun but early morning it probably would be fine.

[cbass]

Like riding a frozen whitewater river this morning. We did fine with regular tires at low pressure, but studded tires would help in some spots. There's a lot of trees & debris out there. Hit it while it's frozen because above freezing it will be a mess.

[stanley02]

I was out there this morning and would have to say Cbass was dead on. I tried out my homemade studded rear tire and that seemed to help out, but in some area it looks like the trails melted and then froze over night and they were really slick. I guess I'll make to make a front studded tire tonight.

[Leviathan]

Anybody think the trails will be rideable Thursday afternoon?

[cbass]

no way.

they will be a mess.

[DaveG]

no way.

they will be a mess.

Not that this will stop a lot of people!

[cbass]

yeah and that will only prolong the drying process.

the trails were frozen this morning but there were some nasty, deep ruts from people riding Monday afternoon.

things will get worse before they get better.

[Leviathan]

Not that this will stop a lot of people!

If it makes you feel any better, it will stop me.

[JFritsch]

Yea, can't remeber the last time I road off road. All road/paved trail rides right now.

[dubinjs]

Not that this will stop a lot of people!
I know most of us feel like caged animals right now and are dying to get out there, but I really hope that evryone is researching trail conditions like I am and choosing a ride intelligently and respectfully. A lot of people work ahard to maintain the trails and riding them to soon is direspectfu land messes shit up for the rest of us.

**Please stay off the trails if they are not ready for ya.**:nono:

[DaveG]

If it makes you feel any better, it will stop me.

It stops most of the people who read/post here, but that's a small percentage of local riders unfortunately.

Most of the trails around here recover so that year by year there's not that much change. The trails at Avalon have changed drastically (for the worse) since I started riding there in the late 90's. It's tough since there's not a lot of other good trails in the area.

[crutter1]

I went on a quick ride around 1 to test out a new bike build and to check on (post-thaw) trail conditions. Good news is my bike rides really well, bad news is the trails are crummy. The trailhead at landing road is deceptively dry, but within 100 feet or so in any direction things quickly deteriorate. Lots of sloppy mud and downed branches, with scattered areas of dry trail. Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know.

[rambling]

Hiked through the CCBC area early this morning and large sections were still soft and wet enough to squish under foot. Today will help a lot, but not quite dry enough to ride guilt free IMHO

[jabrabu]

So what do you think the conditions will be tomorrow? It's supposed to freeze tonight and if you can finish a ride before 10am it would probably be okay, but how about noontime?

I'm going to be out of town Friday to Sunday, and I'd like to ride the Sugar Hill beginner race course, so I'm thinking of taking a long lunch break tomorrow and hitting the trails. But if they will be sloppy I might just do a road bike ride.

[ForestBear]

Tomorrow noon is a tough call based on what we saw this AM. I'll be passing through on my road bike twice in the next 24 hours and will be sure to update the conditions as I see them.

[ForestBear]

Did a trail run around CCBC loop (usually a good litmus test) last night. Things had dried out considerably from the yesterday AM. Poorly draining areas* are bad (ride through not around, really just one spot 5-6 feet long**) but for the most part the trails had dried out nicely. Things should be great for tomorrow - get it while you can before the rains come.

*I would avoid the rutted out areas on the power line trails, these were consistently soft.

**One bad spot in the woods needs to be fixed regardless, a squirrel told me he overheard super secret talk of it getting fixed in the next week or so, we'll see.

[raymo853]

Not that I don't doubt your experience, but why this (http://moots.com/afternoon-ti/snow-biking-arrowhead-135/)?

That is designed to float on top of snow, either very deep fresh snow or packed down older snow. Very different than the conditions at Patapsco this winter. I think cross bikes are better in fresh snow that is not too deep, say under 10 inches, because it allows you to cut down consistently to the bottom of the snow. Unlike a 26 or 29er tire that has a higher chance of starting to "float up" as you ride along then cause problems.

[raymo853]

Shouldn't there be a new thread titled 2011 started? Especially with goofballs like Raymo853 diverging in this thread about the coefficient of friction differences between 29er and cross tires.

[atldc9]

Rockburn and the HoCo side were terrible today. I expected a few walkarounds, but it was more like a few ridable spots, mostly walking.

[kenzen410]

Rockburn and the HoCo side were terrible today. I expected a few walkarounds, but it was more like a few ridable spots, mostly walking.

Which trails did you hit? It always takes a long while for Rockburn and the areas around Belmont to dry out. Wonder if Ridge and the BaCo side are in better shape.

Now I'm torn between P-tap and Fairland. Weather is looking good for tomorrow.

[rambling]

I rode patapsco this morning on the way to work, park n ride trail and a little BaltCo stuff, then climbed out cascade. Cascade sucked, it was just very surface wet, but all the BaltCo side stuff was good. Park n ride trail was exceptional - seriously!

I also rode thru on my way home from work tonight - it was quite clearly drier from todays fair conditions, cascade was great, just a few moist spots, and again the BaltCo stuff was just fine.

I definitely think it will be good to go tomorrow. And I am usually pretty conservative about this stuff.

Too bad we are supposed to get a drenching again on sunday.

[rambling]

Shouldn't there be a new thread titled 2011 started?

done and done, see you there