SS Conversion Technology...

[Snot-Rocket]

I jsut recently purchased a White Industries Ecentric Hub- great idea and I'm finally finding value in it, but it took some work, e.g. getting new bolts which were longer, the stock bolts couldn't keep the hub tight w/ my heavy arse and the wide stays on my Stiffee- I'm still looking for some good locking washers...but things seem to be under control- I also run a fat 20-tooth cog, which decreases the load on the Hub...so this systems works for a fatty. Granted, something I encountered and didn't think about is the brake shoe alignment= not a big dealio, but you have to take that under consideration when you get notions of running two different cogs and the magical gear swap on the trail- ha, ha, you'll have to align your brake shoes also- ha, ha! In summary, the benefits, nice clean SS look, but not the optimal solution.

The best Chain Tensioner (and I think chain tensioners are better for SS then horizontal dropouts- exponentially better!) I've every used for a conversion is the Paul's Melvin- it provides the best chain tension under all conditions, but you can't run a 20-tooth Cog- I never dropped a chain with a melvin and I was a fanatic rider at the time.

I recently came across the Soulcraft's convert on a friends bike:
http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/id57.htm From my experience, this looks to be a great piece of technology and I'll likely buy one for me-self.


The only other tensioner I have used is the Surly - which is pretty reliable, but doesn't provide as much chain tension as the Melvin, granted is more versatile due to the fact you can flip the spring for pull/push chain tension. It also accommodates a 20-tooth Cog (er, the cog of choice for sophisticated SS application-ha, ha!).


Joy,

[camp]

... the Soulcraft's convert I had less than perfect results with this. It worked well in one mode only (push, I believe) but still I broke the release pin 3 times. I sent it back twice and they quickly and pleasantly repaired it, but by the 3rd time I gave up on it. I now have SS-horiz drops with v-brakes and it is much better than the Soulcraft imo. I couldn't make it work well in pull mode at all.

no shortage of SS opinions around here, these are only mine...

[markie]

n.

The best Chain Tensioner (and I think chain tensioners are better for SS then horizontal dropouts- exponentially better!)

Eh? That makes no sense to me.

[Snot-Rocket]

Eh? That makes no sense to me.

Think Chain Tension and the optimal means to achieve that end...

Horizontal Dropouts- pros/ simple; Cons / you have to cognizant of the virtual chainstay length you like (measure chain, count links) and properly align brakes, etc. to this dimension. Chains stretch, locking bolts on hub spindle can break free, etc. especially if heavier. When I test rode a bianchi BASS years ago- while cranking up a hill the lock bolt broke free and even kicked the other side off and out the drop out...sucked. After tightening and trying again, no luv for fatty! You have to check to make sure the bolts are tight on a weekly basis...I must do the same with my Eccentric Hub...sucks!

Chain Tensioner- Pros/ in Paul's Melvin Case (Soul Craft convert seems like a no gamer)- constant, chain tension- even with chain stretch, bouncy conditions, blah, blah, blah- all luv 24-7. The Surly Singleator - is purty decent, but I've broken a spring on one occassion and you can't get as much chain tension per the Melvin. SWAP cogs to a 16-18, no big dealio...brakes don't need adjusting all love. You also maintain a multi-purpose frame... Cons / more moving parts, requires some maintenance and can fail - but in between a pretty low maintenance thought free application.

I haven't experienced- but seems the best of both worlds is the Eccentric BB, granted I have no experience with this paradigm and likely will not for a bit...

Granted, I weigh 230 on a good day...stick boys live in a different world...


Hep yah?

[ODG]

Nice find....thanks for posting. I've got it bookmarked for future reference.

[riderx]

Think Chain Tension and the optimal means to achieve that end...
A pair of chain tugs (http://www.xoutfitters.com/bmx/chaintensioner/) goes a long way for setup, slippage, etc. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. I've tried it all except the EBB, and horizontals are da best IMO.

[gaz]

An X0 rear derailleur!!!

;)

[riderx]

An X0 rear derailleur!!!

;)Until a stick takes it out... :eek:

[Snot-Rocket]

A pair of chain tugs (http://www.xoutfitters.com/bmx/chaintensioner/) goes a long way for setup, slippage, etc. Wham, bam, thank you ma'am. I've tried it all except the EBB, and horizontals are da best IMO.

Mechanically, I'd submit this would be the simplest solution- but not the most cost effective and/or flexible, e.g. I fantasize about getting an IF ti hardtail all the time, but (and this is a huge but, cause this ain't happening until maybe my kid goes to college) I'd likely opt for a vertical dropout so that I could run SS, but always have the option to put on gears...even if I'd never exercise that option.

[markie]

no, go for the horizontal drops, and buy a saint rear hub and derailleur at the same time......

I wonder if shimano will start making a a more X/C version soon for all the fad SS'ers with horizontal dropout frames and no derailleur hanger??

[drevil]

... for all the fad SS'ers with horizontal dropout frames and no derailleur hanger??

For 28.6445 USD, you can get this (http://on-one.co.uk/products/gear_hanger.shtml). I have one and used it for all of twenty minutes in three years. The shifty bits annoyed. Hey, at least I'll be ready when the fad's over! :D

[Dirt]

Until a stick takes it out... :eek:

Make that a twig. ;) And I like the SRAM stuff.

On the horizontal dropout discussion....

I had a perfect configuration with my old ABM that I rode as a single speed last year. With a spicer half link, I could run the gear I wanted with a normal bottom bracket and verticle dropouts and get perfect chain tension. It was a hair snug the first week of a new chain, but settled in perfectly after that. I knew it was time for a new chain when it started getting loose. I had short chainstays, good chain tension, vertical dropouts and a light, simple bike.

Then I switched to the karate monkey. One of my big concerns with going to a 29er was the longer chainstays. I really didn't want it to handle like an 18 wheeler on technical climbs. With chainstays over an inch longer than what I was used to, I figured I'd ride the thing as a curiosity until I got a custom frame made and then I'd have fun with that.

I ended up having a delicious meal of crow with that one. Even with long stays, the thing climbs like a champ. My technique is a tiny bit different, I'm a little more upright when I climb out of the saddle, but it trucks right up stuff with no problems.

I know climbing isn't the only thing that chainstay length affects, but it was my main concern since I seem to be a weirdo that just loves climbing stuff.

As a 220 pound guy that tends to crank hard on the pedals, I'm a little cautious about the EBB solution. I don't hesitate at all with the horizontal dropouts though. I've got a Surly tugnut on it and it doesn't budge.... even when I really honk on the thing. I run one on my geared Karate Monkey since there is a fair amount of tire overlap with the front derailleur on that bike.

http://myroadtrips.peterbeers.net/mbrt/Bike_Repair/Monkey/I_MG_2965.JPG

Hope that makes sense. Sorry for rattling on.

Pete

[Dirt]

One more thing....

Some hubs slip more than others. My Paul's never slipped. My Spot slipped until I modified the gripping endcaps. My Phils are rock solid. I know you're using the white Industires. I haven't messed with one beyond riding someone else's bike that had one installed.

Pete

[TMayhew]

The Soulcraft is a nice tensioner, it's been good to me so far, but I do agree with Chunk, it runs a lot better in push than it does in pull. Another tensioner I've heard good things about is the Rennen Rollenlager.

http://www.pbase.com/inbred/image/28230716/large.jpg

http://www.rennendesigngroup.com/

No first-hand experience, but I may try one out if I can't get keep the Soulcraft tight in pull mode.

Tim

[Dirt]

The Rennen is a good design. Changing flats is a little more complicated than with the soulcraft, but still not really a problem.

If you're converting a geared freehub to SS, you need to make sure that you use a spacer system that gives you the ability to adjust the chainline (a wise thing to do regardless) since the Rennen gives little or no lateral adjustment on where the roller meets the chain.

Pete

[Snot-Rocket]

for all the fad SS'ers with horizontal dropout frames and no derailleur hanger??


Hmmm, I know for some folks SS is a FAD or yet another opportunity to be different...if folks are focused on fitness or the training benefits, then I can excuse the front suspension...

However, for trails like Wakefield, Accotink, Schaeffer and what not - I'd argue one gear / rigid is the optimal solution for an experienced rider...I love MTB, because when you are on the trail, there is nothing else but the trail- an opportunity to isolate oneself from bending over for the Man 40-50 hours a week (we'll that is my predicament, 'thank you sir- may I have another!')... I've biked most of my life and MTB'd well over 12-years, when I'm ripping the trails around my house on a dualie- I can almost fall asleep at the wheel- the only way to stir things up is to ride as fast as I can (which shortens my ride and makes me tired) or ride with friends for the social experience, etc. However on a Rigid SS, there is no sleeping at the wheel- gotta be up and ready, there is clear and predictable trail feed back and a plain old trail becomes ten times as fun! I only have so many opportunities to ride these days and a Rigid / SS is a total body workout...and to ride fast and smooth, it takes true finesse- folks can cheat all day w/ Momentum on a dualie or front suspended bike- but a rigid / ss- no luv for the unskilled...there is a science and art to everything and mastering a Rigid / SS takes some art- an opportunity of expression not found in everyday life...so no Fad for me and likely not others...granted, I'd still not go w/ Horizontal Dropouts, cause I'd like the option to put on gears- ha, ha! Plus, they don't make a SS frame w/ the Geometry I like- Communists!

Okay, that was my romantic perspective of Rigid SS- ha, ha! The real issue is time constrained Bike Geek on a full susser- any creak/squeak must be addressed, if the shocks are balanced must be addressed, keeping the transmission clean, blah, blah, blah- dude, there is real work there- a Rigid SS, easy maintenance, virtually always ready to ride- plus way cheaper to maintain...ha, ha, that is the real reason- but the romantic version was fun to write!

If I lived close enough where I could ride the Watershed / Gambril routinely, I'd likely shelf my SS...for a dualie, yeah, one would be a true Jedi on those trails w/ a rigid SS...but that would be overkill for me- ha, ha!

Rah,

[halfinch]

i've done my toying with various ss combo's and have found the following.
eno is cool. brake set up is finicky, and their track nut slips on my frame. need to score them to reduce the loss of tension.

surly tensioner has worked like a charm. can be a little noisey, but it does the trick in the push mode well.

the pyramid "singulator" knock off work somewhat, but it's spring stop breaks off at the derailleur stop after the second adjustment- lame. however, i like how they have provided several holes in the body of the unit which makes zip typing it in a push mode a snap. hockey tape on the chainstay holds the zips from sliding.

jenson has their inhouse steel frame with ebb for wicked cheap. 299 shipping included. i like the horizontal drops, but it has me tempted..

enjoy