Fountain Head Fiitness

[MyOtherBrotherL]

I'm trying to use Fountain Head to help gauge my MTB fitness level this year.

((The Wakefield redesign put me back about 30 or so days in training.))

SO - On Saturday I went out to the Park and did 2 laps on my SS. A lap included all trail from Parking Lot to Parking Lot ((including the soon to be renamed Dead End Loop)). This was NOT at Race Pace, but at a good level of effort. My first lap took 58 minutes and 28 seconds and included a quick assessment of the moisture level of the surrounding fauna and 3 attempts to get over the log at the picnic tables (Cause Camp could do it). My second lap (after a GOO and some water) took 60 minutes and 37 seconds and included escorting some lost riders back to the picnic tables.

My question to the group is how long are other people taking to do a complete loop?? And how many loops are people attempting per outing??

My guess is I need to be at around 50 or so minutes a lap for at least 2 laps to be competitive. Taking off 9 minutes a lap seems kind of daunting at this point but I guess it's a goal.

L

[joep]

HA!! I did the same thing last year to gauge my fitness. I was doing about 50min per lap for 2 laps on my ss. Come race time you still kicked my sorry a$$. I have no idea how fit I am this year but judging from how I felt at last Thursday's Wakefield ride I got a loooong way to go. Unfortunately, I won't get to do much riding this week so you'll have to wait a bit for my Fhead times.

JoeP

[Squirrel_Girl]

I'm not even going to report my level fitness since you're soooo much better than me. But I've just got to wonder....included a quick assessment of the moisture level of the surrounding faunaWhat were you doing with the animals?!?!?!?!?!? And just how moist is a squirrel? Deer? Bug?

[gaz]

I've yet to ride at Fountainhead. However, a lap of Wakefield takes me approximately three weeks, four days, and twenty one hours. So you probably have me beat...!

[MyOtherBrotherL]

And just how moist is a squirrel? Deer? Bug?


That would depend on how many drinks I buy them first - However I digress :D

[shaka]

Great catch S L.

That made me chuckle out loud...at work :)

I'll pass on any further details...

[MyOtherBrotherL]

But you are correct - It should have been FLORA not FAUNA

DOH!

[Squirrel_Girl]

But you are correct - It should have been FLORA not FAUNA

DOH!I hope you knew I wrote that all in good fun! Tonight, after dinner, as I was delivering to their hotel a microbiology and geology professor from NKU, I told them what I'd written. The geologist figured out instantly that you'd meant "flora" but it completely went over the head of the microbiologist! Doesn't that tell you something!?! Anyway, I realized I'd forgotten to put a smilie in my posting.

:)
There! Just so you know.

[MyOtherBrotherL]

After surviving the PPTC speed workout/road ride last night, I was wondering if it was time to taper off in the weight room. Currently I'm hitting the gym twice a week and still doing a reasonably hard leg work out (Leg Press - 450, Squats 225). I was thinking maybe it was time to go to one lift a week and maybe switch to a high rep, low weight routine. (Maybe press's at 270 and squats at 135 for 50 reps). I want to keep the leg workout in the routine because Single Speeding (at least for me) demands a certain amount of mashing leg strength.

So for the next month I was thinking:

Sunday - GYM
Monday - Recovery (Light swim or Run)
Tuesday - PPTC road ride - Speed Workout
Wednesday - Recovery (Light swim or Run)
Thursday - MORE Night Ride - Moderate effort for 2 hours
Friday - NOTHING
Saturday - Fountain Head Gauge Ride

Opinions?? (Everybody gots one)

L

[gaz]

For leg strength and endurance, I would SERIOUSLY recommend hill or step running. Find an area with a lot of steps - if you have access to an office building, or something with eight or so floors, that works. Start at the bottom, run the flights of steps to the top. Sounds easy, but it's not. When you get to the top, walk back down, and repeat.

Failing that, find a hill. Run up, walk down. Repeat. If it's on grass, add extra fun by tying a drag - take a spare tire, or something flat and heavy, attach it to your waist via a cord, and drag it behind you. This is the method employed by my former soccer coach, and we did it almost every day, four days a week. One 15 minute session at the start of training, one at the end, and after a month my endurance had easily doubled, and I was MUCH faster.

Then I discovered beer and junk food, but that's a whole other story...

[camp]

Opinions??My Brother L, I have a feeling that you're one of the fitter folks to populate this forum (and your workout plan confirms it), so I wonder why you ask for help...?

Since you did, many people, Friel included, say that late April is time to stop the heavy weights. Maybe go to the high reps/low wgt if you want to keep it up for the SS reason. Personally, for SSing, I find that I need to keep up the heavy weights for the upper body long past the heavy wgts for the legs. After my first Fh SS ride of the season, it was my upper body that was sore.

If I had to tweak your schedule, I'd say make Sunday your long ride day (family approval pending of course), instead an off (gym) day. Trail/hill running like Mr. Wayne Rooney suggested (oops, sorry, Gaz is Irish right??? ;) ), and definitely keep doing the PPTC road ragers. IMO, nothing gets you in racing shape faster than those. And, if it's all the same time-distance-wise for you, why not go to FH and rip a couple laps instead of for a swim? Unless you're training for XTerra. For me, FH is just about as good as those road ragers for getting fit.

[gaz]

Trail/hill running like Mr. Wayne Rooney suggested (oops, sorry, Gaz is Irish right??? ;) )

Oh no you didn't...!

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Mr. Camp (The original L),

If I appear to be one of the MORE fitter folks, it is only because I aspire to finish a race with in sight of your winning ways. Usually I cross the finish line only to find that you have already changed, your bike has been put away and your opening your second or 3rd refreshing beverage.

You are of course correct about Sunday's. Unfortunately I need to prearrange "MY" weekend ride with the boss. I do my best to gauge weather, but normally once a weekend pass is approved, it is usually non refundable and non transferable.

As far as the the Monday/Wednesday recovery swim - In order to secure the Tuesday/Thursday rides I have taken responsibility to accompany my 5 year old to Pee Wee Swimming at Wakefield Park. My choices are to sit in the bleachers or to slip into the water and swim. Trust me, I would rather hit FH or even Accotink for a quick SS maintenance ride.

Great Suggestions - Thanks for the replies.

L

PS Appearances can be deceiving. Objects appearing to be FIT may not be FAST

[joep]

Just for you BrotherL, I distracted my kid long enough to sneak out the door for a quickie at Fhead. Only had time for one lap as it was getting dark, but with all the usual excuses (http://fearlessdogeaters.blogspot.com/2005/04/and-so-it-begins.html) : a bit under 51 minutes. That's about where I was in the middle of last season when you were smokin' me.

JoeP

[camp]

what are u guys calling a "lap"?
On the 1st lap, I assume it's from parking lot to bottom of Shock-a-Billy right? then 2nd lap from there to there again? or, do you guys go all the way back to the parking lot/start after each lap?

[joep]

what are u guys calling a "lap"?
On the 1st lap, I assume it's from parking lot to bottom of Shock-a-Billy right? then 2nd lap from there to there again? or, do you guys go all the way back to the parking lot/start after each lap?

I'm assuming a lap is from parking lot to parking lot with the "deadend loop" included. Post a time and show us how it's done, Mr. Camp!

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Joe is correct. A lap (For the purpose of this thread) should be considered Parking Lot to Parking Lot AND should include the dead end loop. I realize that this criteria makes it hard to compare the times from last years Cranky, but we can start a new thread in late May that does THAT. Also, laps should be at a non race pace effort. At this point in the season, I think we should be looking at fitness, not doing all speed work outs.

As for a 51 minute lap time. I tip my hat. I think that's fast for an SS at this point in the season. Looking at last years Cranky results shows the winning SS time at just under 76 minutes and the non podium time at 89 minutes. These are obviously race pace times. If we added 2 minutes per missed dead-end, 1 minute for the missed exit trail, and 3 minutes for the missed entrance trail (Somebody jog my memory - last year we exited on the exit trail, the year before we were routed out on the entrance trail - RIGHT??), we would get 84 minutes as the winning time and 97 minutes as the non podium time.

This translates into 42 minutes a lap to stand proud and 48'30" to spectate during the awards ceremony.



WOW - I gots some work to do if my plan A is to win fair and square and on skill and speed alone.



Plan B is a calculated risk. Big Bear is the same date as the Cranky FH this year. My secret plan is to try and help coordinate SS teams for this years inaugural race. Podium by attrition is still a podium! (Just don't tell any one about my plan)

Plan C - Race Expert Female. Last year there were only 3 riders and one had to DNF. A 3rd place finish would move me up 2 places. If "Rick-D" can wear a dress, then I can wear a dress (And in "MY" mind I know I'd look better than "HE" did).

L

PS "DISCLAIMER" - I want to stress that timing your self this point in the season can be troublesome for some people. There is always the incentive to try and go faster and or harder than you wanted to or your training program indicates. This thread is for fun - I don't really want to hear about anyone getting hurt or burning out because the wanted to crush 59 minute lap times.

[drevil]

Plan B is a calculated risk. Big Bear is the same date as the Cranky FH this year. My secret plan is to try and help coordinate SS teams for this years inaugural race. Podium by attrition is still a podium! (Just don't tell any one about my plan)
JoeP, ErinG, another person, and I are forming a SS/Rigid team for Big Bear. If'n we keep it between us, we'll get first and second place. (Hopefully nobody reads grannygear.com!)

If "Rick-D" can wear a dress, then I can wear a dress (And in "MY" mind I know I'd look better than "HE" did).

Honey, I don't think so. :eek:

[joep]

Your plan B is working. I'm going to Big Bear this year and I'm taking rickyd with me. A few other ssers are also making the trip. I hope you don't feel too lonely on the podium this year BrotherL. Not that I would have bumped you off...

Your other comments are spot on. That is, to people who can make a distinction between ride pace and race pace. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them :)

[drevil]

Your plan B is working. I'm going to Big Bear this year and I'm taking rickyd with me. A few other ssers are also making the trip. I hope you don't feel too lonely on the podium this year BrotherL. Not that I would have bumped you off...


Ahhh, so Larry wants us to leave while he sticks around for the Cranky race? I misunderstood and thought he wanted to go to Big Bear also.

The nerve, talking up Big Bear, while not even planning on going there yourself. Next thing you know, Larry's going to talk up the Singlespeed Worlds (http://www.sswc05.com/), then not show up so he can singlehandedly take on Cranky Race #3 also!!!!

Well Larry, have fun in your cheatin' ways! :p

[camp]

JoeP, ErinG, another person, and IDoes this mean you don't have this other person found yet?

Did that also read that you're making 2 Duo teams, or one 4-person?

[tsteele999]

Rode FH today, most beautiful weather conditions in the history of man, dry tails, and new singletrack to ride. I tried my best to keep a good pace today, did one lap in 1:03, I get 7.8 miles for a whole lap. I know I can increase my speed if I would let my bike open up a little on the downhill sections, but I always have the fear of bouncing off the trail into oblivion (or an Oak). I think I do ok on the climbs, just need more work on "flowing" down the trail.

I don't even want to think about my average speed on my SS.

Since I started actually riding off road finally this year, my average speed on Bike Journal is plummeting. I guess I need to mix in some road rides.

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Don't feel too bad.

I was a 59
JoeP was a 51

And BLD told me last night he did it in 45


DOH!


Slow and Steady (Or as PH would say - SS) is my new MANTRA!

Anyway - Looks like no new times till sometime late next week.

I'm thinking LONG run tomorrow morning.

L

[joep]

I'm getting old. I just found my post from last year (http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=148691&postcount=17) where I did it in 48 minutes including running the last 0.2 miles back because of a broken chain. Now I'm riding a lot more but I'm doing fhead in 51 minutes without the excuse of a broken chain. Did the trail get longer over the winter? :rolleyes:

[MyOtherBrotherL]

I'm getting old. I just found my post from last year (http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=148691&postcount=17) where I did it in 48 minutes including running the last 0.2 miles back because of a broken chain. Now I'm riding a lot more but I'm doing fhead in 51 minutes without the excuse of a broken chain. Did the trail get longer over the winter? :rolleyes:

Actually the trail did get longer. Last year we added that piece of Single Track that replaces the fire road down hill. Now you gots to peddle instead of doing a freewheel downhill bombing run. We also did that small reroute that took out that really sketchy downhill before the stream crossing (The uphill on the other side is still there and is about 10 feet wide now). AND - Isabel knocked down so many tree's that instead of cutting them all out, we rerouted in one area. Nobody seemed to notice.

I'm guessing your right at where you where last year.


Oh - And Dr. P - You ARE old. In the words of Will Smith from MIBII, "Old and Busted". :D :D :D

L

PS - No Fountain Head for me today. 5 mile run and a 35 mile road ride out of Wakefield. I couldn't believe how many MTB's I saw going out.

[harley]

Just out of curiosity, what gear are you using while recording these times?

I probably don't want to know...

[joep]

Just out of curiosity, what gear are you using while recording these times?

I probably don't want to know...

My gain ratio (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html): 3.4

(or more verbosely, that's 32x20 with 175mm cranks and 29er wheels :) )

[EJensen]

I practically did cartwheels in the parking lot the first time I came in under an hour at Fountainhead.

Here’s my plan for Cranky this year: Cover everything on my bike that identifies it as a Santa Cruz Superlight with a HUFFY sticker, and race in beginner. It’s easier than wearing a sports bra and racing in women’s, though not necessarily any less humiliating.

As it happens, there is some precedent for this (the bike misidentification, not the sports bra). I read in one of the magazines that the Mongoose factory team used Turner bikes with a Mongoose decal.

Let me complain, by the way, that last year I was probably the oldest guy in regular Sport class, missing the cutoff for Masters by about a month. I reminded myself that this only meant I would be just about the youngest guy next year. Now, of course, they have redefined the class so Masters is 35-45, if I recall correctly.

All of this must sound strange to you hoity-toity Expert class racers, but someone has to be out-of-shape and slow to help you look even better.

By the way, does the official lap mean Shock-A-Billy or the alternate-but-more-likely-to-put-you-in-the-emergency-room-with-a-broken-clavicle-and-concussion route? I always take the latter, as it just seems a lot more fun to me. I believe that adds about 2, maybe 2.5 miles to the route, so that would be reflected in my time.

Best regards,
Eric

[camp]

OK, just to keep this thread going cuz I thought it was interesting...
I rode a couple laps last night, and since Fh is now different, we can't really compare times w/ the fast BLD and you other folks.

I did ~41 minutes from parking lot to bottom of Shock-a-Billy. There I met Jim Bounds and Albert Greene on his new 29" rigid WaltWorx SS, so we did a casual lap together. Always nice running into guys like that at Fh.

[mcmillan]

IBy the way, does the official lap mean Shock-A-Billy or the alternate-but-more-likely-to-put-you-in-the-emergency-room-with-a-broken-clavicle-and-concussion route? I always take the latter, as it just seems a lot more fun to me. I believe that adds about 2, maybe 2.5 miles to the route, so that would be reflected in my time.


My last trip around FountainHead was in about 0:55. Clock stops when I fall down. Need to try it again soon as my skills have improved recently.

Not to hijack the thread but I have a question. Where is the shock-a-billy bypass? Is it marked? I took a right on a trail just before the start of the shock-a-billy down hill and ended up walking down something that looked like a rock infested drainage ditch. Please tell me this is not the alternate route as it is not anywhere near 2 miles extra. It would put me in the emergency room though.

Brian

[EJensen]

Please tell me this is not the alternate route as it is not anywhere near 2 miles extra. It would put me in the emergency room though.

That rock-infested drainage ditch is the alternate route. I was being facetious with my estimate of 2 miles as a justification for my lousy times.

I always found the characterization of Shock-a-billy as "expert" and the clavicle-crusher as "alternate" a little odd. Those babyheads on the alternate make for a much more white knuckled ride as far as I am concerned.

Best regards,
Eric

[camp]

Please tell me this is not the alternate route as it is not anywhere near 2 miles extra. that's it. EJensen was just kidding about the extra mileage. most folks think it is harder though

[mcmillan]

That rock-infested drainage ditch is the alternate route. I was being facetious with my estimate of 2 miles as a justification for my lousy times.

I always found the characterization of Shock-a-billy as "expert" and the clavicle-crusher as "alternate" a little odd. Those babyheads on the alternate make for a much more white knuckled ride as far as I am concerned.


Gotcha :o. Just curious, from a skills prespective, can most riders make it down Shock-a-billy and/or the alternate; or do most give it a pass like I do ?

[Vecsus]

I have not ridden FH very many times but lately I have been able to make it down shock-a-billy without much trouble. All it took was for someone to point out the right places to use brakes. Too much and your suspension will not rebound and you are doomed.

[EJensen]

Gotcha :o. Just curious, from a skills prespective, can most riders make it down Shock-a-billy and/or the alternate; or do most give it a pass like I do ?

I don't know. Sounds like a good subject for a poll, though. I believe there is a way to take a poll on the forum.

All of this reminds me of a discussion I had last fall with a guy at the F’head trailhead. He told me about losing it on the alternate route a few years earlier. After recovering from the cracked ribs, concussion, and broken jaw that had his jaw wired shut for a few weeks, he was as good as new. Even more impressive, he was back riding F’head.

He takes Shock-a-Billy now.

Best regards,
Eric

P.S. I never passed that story along to my wife.

[mcmillan]

I don't know. Sounds like a good subject for a poll, though.

Good idea. I'll PM Martin. I think he has to set it up. That way my thread hijack can end. As penance I'll re-ride the course this week and post my new time (if anyone cares).

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Well, I started this thread, but it's obvious I've lost complete control (And the thread is going wild too... :D )

Last week would have been a great week to post a new time for FH. Unfortunately for this "L", I was too busy in class getting First Aid and CPR certified (Missing the Tuesday PPTC ride and my Wednesday swim). To add, I left for Richmond on Thursday (Missing my favorite Thursday night event) to precarb load for the NASCAR qualifying race on Friday.

A fuzzy Friday quickly blurred into Saturday and a 2:00 AM bed time meant a sluggish start to Saturday. 0-Dark-30 greeted me with a gallon of Water and some strong coffee and a 120 mile drive home. One quick stop at "SPORTS" Deli in Lake Ridge and a review of the awful weather forecast for Sunday found me pushing off from the Homestead on the rigid SS by 1:30 PM. It was a shakey warm-up in Accotink, but by 2:30 PM I was timing laps at Wakefield for the 3 proposed courses for the summer series.

Dang - Unlike Fountain Head, the Wakefield course has gotten "REALLY" fast. The "SHORT" course (In case of recent rain) had me coming in under 13 minutes. The marked course took under 17 minutes and the "LONG" course was 20 minutes.

L

PS As far as Shock-A-Billy goes. Do it on a rigid hardtail with sloppy V-Brakes 10 or 20 times and it'll be like riding off a curb on one of dem squishy bikes.

[mark w]

Ask anyone and they'll tell you I'm no climbing demon. That being said, anyone looking for some pointers on dealing with the downward stretches at FH might come out to the 939 ride on Saturday mornings. The focus is more on developing technical skills and having fun than on hitting a time goal. There is a thread in the Pit with a few more details.

mark

[tsteele999]

Well I guess I've hit a rut. I can't seem to do better than 1:03 at FH. One thing I have noticed though, after a winter of riding rollers in the basement I feel stronger this year in general and I feel my confidence level riding over there improving, going from staying clipped out of my pedals most of the time, worried about hitting a root wrong or messing up on the climbs, to this year where I only unclip to walk up the steep hill after the picnic table, the one that goes straight up the side after a little stream crossing...which is my vote for the next "trail improvement zone" next year.

[tuba_transport]

And I was excited to hit 60 minutes. Now I feel REALLY slow.