Camera Geek opinions.

[philvw]

My daughter wants a nice camera, and I am thinking about getting it for her for graduation this week. I am considering the Canon Rebel XS (what she had her eye on) and the Nikon D60 (I like Nikon). Both at 10.2 Mp and an 18-55 lens, so specs are the same.
Opinions? I know there are new better cameras out there, but this one hits the price/technology point I am looking for.

[CRAIG2]

My daughter wants a nice camera, and I am thinking about getting it for her for graduation this week. I am considering the Canon Rebel XS (what she had her eye on) and the Nikon D60 (I like Nikon). Both at 10.2 Mp and an 18-55 lens, so specs are the same.
Opinions? I know there are new better cameras out there, but this one hits the price/technology point I am looking for.

Phil, we all know you're just trying to start a Nikon / Canon flame war. :D

Seriously though, I have an older version of the Rebel, the Rebel XT, and I LOVE it. Very user intuitive, easy to use / navigate menus, auto and manual settings, great camera for the price and lots of room to grow with all of the lens options out there. I've had no problems with it whatsoever, and the images have been great. I believe my fiance has the XSi version, the 10MP version, and you'd probably get similar feedback from her. IMO, the Rebel is simply a great camera that your duaghter would enjoy for years to come.

The 18-55 lens is a pretty decent all around lens, great for portraits and snapshots, and I even use mine for landscapes. It's a reasonably fast lens - it's good for a lot of things, but not particulary ideal for any one thing I think. It does a respectable job with macro shots, but you won't get the same image quality as you would with a true macro lens. The great news is that you can buy her a lens for Christmas or something :) I think I'm going to add a 28-135 to my collection next, and we (fiance and I) share a 50mm macro, and we both have 75-300 zoom lenses.

All this said, I'm a Canon fan. All I use anymore are Canon cameras. My point and shoot is a PowerShot A720, an upgrade from my old A520.

I'm sure the Nikon D60 is a great camera, as well. I just don't know much about Nikon. Maybe have her play with both at her local Best Buy or something and go with what she likes best?

[jvanbrecht]

I would recomend you hit up dpreview.com

I won't talk about camera tech as I am not the most experianced in it (Joe Foley could probably help you with that question). But don't get hung up on the Mp numbers, the sensors used are not created equal, and while they both may be 10.2, one may have more noise in the image then others, or slower, or faster, not all are full frame (not sure about the 2 you listed).

Also, keep in mind, alot of new cameras have been released recently, some of the new DSLR's actually do full 720p HD video. The D60 is an older camera (was released over a year ago), and at its price point, I would say its not worth it at $600 to 1000 (depending on which kit you get) when you can pick up a Canon EOS Rebel T1i Digital SLR Camera Kit w/EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens for $899

Specs for the above camera are far superior to the D60
* 15.1Mp CMOS Sensor
* HD 1080p, 720p, and VGA Video Capture
* 3" Clear View LCD with Live View
* DIGIC 4 Image Processor
* ISO Expandable to 12,800
* EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens
* Compatible w/ 60-plus EF & EF-S Optics


I pulled this info from B&H photo

I am sort of a Nikon person, I have the original D70 from years ago.... But the point I am making, is do a little research, a lot has changed, and based on your 2 camera suggestions, I would shop around a little more.

[philvw]

Phil, we all know you're just trying to start a Nikon / Canon flame war. :D


You called me out. I was going to ask SS or geared, but tired of that one.:nope:

[crack monkey]

Chevy or Ford? Both are more similar than different and both are good cameras. Do you (or your daughter) have have any glass from an older camera? If so, get the DLSR that supports that glass. Both have a crop factor of around 1.5x, so be aware that a 50mm lens on either will give an image more like a 75mm.

The kit lenses for both are adequate, but far from great. If she gets into photography, she'll want to upgrade fairly quickly, so consider buying the body and a separate lens.

One note about the Nikon - on their entry level DSLRs (D60 and below), Nikon did away with the body-mounted screw-drive focus mechanism. So, glass bought for a high-end Nikon will not auto focus on the D60. Lenses for the D60 and below have the focus motor built into the lens. This keeps the cost of the body down and also allows a slightly smaller form-factor.

All Canons have the motor in the lens, so you can mix and match with the high end glass with no issue.

[MD Fire]

I have done photography for awhile now, and professionally for the last six years. I have used Canon cameras and lenses almost exclusively for longer than that.

That being said, I am a little bias.

HOWEVER, one thing the Rebel XS, XTi, T1i have that the Nikon equivalents don't is an integrated sensor cleaning system. I picked up a Canon 1DmkIII a few months ago with this same technology and it is GREAT! Sensor cleaning is tedious and there is always the chance that you could scratch the sensor causing hundreds of dollars in damage, or in the case of the Rebel, it may be cheaper to replace the body in that case.

There is a filter mounted in front of the sensor that vibrates every time the sensor is turned on or off knocking dust away from the sensor. And if that doesn’t work, take a picture of a white piece of paper or wall and put it into the included software and dust will be automatically edited out of the photos.

Dpreview is a good place to start to compare image quality. I always reference that sight before buying equipment.

[CRAIG2]

I think we have to remember what Phil is really looking for, too. I don't think his daughter is going to be shooting for Outdoor Photography or something. Maybe I'm wrong :rolleyes:

At any rate, I think for a DSLR in the sub $1k range, with lens, the Rebel is a great buy. And, with the lens kits available for it, there's plenty of room to grow. If she really gets into photography, she can always sell it later on and put the money towards a 20D or something (just using that for an example - I still haven't outgrown my Rebel XT). Or, just keep the Rebel for a spare body.

[saxman]

I own the D90, which is the D60 with a few more bells and whistles and absolutely love the camera. Even set on its lowest resolution, the picture quality is amazing. When set for full auto, anyone can use it and take great pics.

[CRAIG2]

Another good point Saxman just made - today's DSLR's, particularly more entry level DSLR's, are very user friendly. Set on auto, they're pretty much glorified point and shoots. But, as anyone will tell you who's gotten into photography, you'll quickly tire of full auto. I mean, I can do full auto with my A720. ;)

I really don't think you could lose with either a Nikon or Canon. They're both great names in cameras, though, I am a Canon zealot. :D

[cb4photo]

Both Nikon and Canon make great cameras, But if you look at history Nikon has been three to four steps behind Canon as far as quality goes for years now. I am a photography teacher and use both. But if I was spending my hard earned money on a new camera, it would be Canon. Walk into any press room at any paper and see what they are using... it won't be Nikon.

[CRAIG2]

Both Nikon and Canon make great cameras, But if you look at history Nikon has been three to four steps behind Canon as far as quality goes for years now. I am a photography teacher and use both. But if I was spending my hard earned money on a new camera, it would be Canon. Walk into any press room at any paper and see what they are using... it won't be Nikon.

Word.

And, green dots for you, sir. :)

[jvanbrecht]

You do know there are other companies out there.. Pentex, Minolta, Sony (yes sony actually has a decent DSLR)... All of these are quality brands (although I think Minolta has suffered a bit of brand quality dilution based on releasing a bunch of crap in the past)

[CRAIG2]

Sure, there are other companies. You could say that about a lot of things (I mean, for that matter, if you were looking for a new car, you could settle for a GM, right?). Some just prefer industry leaders over the rest. Entry / mid level DSLR? Canon, for sure. Nikon probably ain't bad - heck, the wedding photographer we're going to use prefers Nikon glass, much to our chagrin. (Yeh, already gave the guy a little crap for that one, all in good fun.). But, I'd wager that Canon is going to give you the best bang for your buck. They're point n' shoots certainly achieve that.

[crack monkey]

You do know there are other companies out there.. Pentex, Minolta, Sony (yes sony actually has a decent DSLR)... All of these are quality brands (although I think Minolta has suffered a bit of brand quality dilution based on releasing a bunch of crap in the past)

The main issue with the other brands is the availability of glass. There is a ton of used glass that fits Nikon and Canon SLRs. Lenses are certainly available for the others, but you have to look a bit harder, especially if you want something used.

[jvanbrecht]

The main issue with the other brands is the availability of glass. There is a ton of used glass that fits Nikon and Canon SLRs. Lenses are certainly available for the others, but you have to look a bit harder, especially if you want something used.

I will concede the above point, however, with regards to Craigs best bang for the buck statement, they are all about the same, and the new Sony DSLRs are actually getting good reviews.

The downside.. is that while you can get lens adapters for most any lens... You lose the autofocus function with some of the adapters....

I am not saying do not get a canon or nikon, I am just saying there are other options out there from an entry level perspective. How many lenses do you think she will get.. even second hand they are pricey unless you buy from friends (which I did). Every camera maker out there has atleast a macro, all around, and zoom lens.. So any of the brands would be fine unless she plans to start a huge collection of various lenses...... (like I do with broken laptops.. for some reason.. heh)

[CRAIG2]

Sure, photography isn't a cheap hobby, but either is mountain biking. I mean, pick your poison. What did you pay for your bike, again? It's all relative, and you don't have to buy L-glass. There are numerous enthusiast level lens kits for under $500.00 out there, and these days you're not limited only to OEM kits. Some of the Tamron kits have gotten pretty decent reviews, and I think Sigma, as well. I think it's great that the used stuff costs so much! Know what that tells me? That just tells me that the stuff I buy retains value. That's refreshing these days! And if I only save, say, 20-30% buying used (just pulled that figure out of my a**), hey, that's 20-30% that's still in my wallet that I can go blow on a new sand wedge or something. Ha!

The great news, as someone else mentioned, is that glass, used or new, for the Canons and Nikons, is pretty easy to come buy - online, or in store. I prefer to buy new when I can afford it mainly so that I get the warranty. When I shop for my Canon, I usually hit up B&H Photo Video and Dell, believe it or not. For new kits, Dell actually has pretty competitive pricing, and B&H sells both used and new. With B&H, though, just be sure you're buying US versions.

[rizetech]

Another rebel XT lover here.
I bought the body only, ditched the cheapo 18-55 lens in favor of one of their 17-85 lenses, with image stabilizer, super sweet autofocus, etc. - it's been a real winner.
I have to say, since I feel it's been neglected - buying a really nice lens is WAY more important than you think. The rebel XT which must be the 1st or maybe 2nd generation is 8mp on the SAME SIZE sensor that the new 10 or 15 mp ones run - i sure as hell wouldn't buy a 15mp camera without going to a full size sensor, it would just get too grainy and poor quality - the # of MP isn't super important, really I find that at 8mp I can print LARGE, bigger than 8x10 prints without seeing "grain" and I can see 10mp being an upgrade, but more than that on the same sensor and it starts actually going down.

So I would take your rebel pick, or even find an older model and get her a nicer lens.

I find canon to always be reliable.

[jvanbrecht]

And if I only save, say, 20-30% buying used (just pulled that figure out of my a**), hey, that's 20-30% that's still in my wallet that I can go blow on a new sand wedge or something. Ha!


At the 20 to 30% discount rate, while nice, but second hand and no warranty (or grey market ones that are new with no warranty) can be very expensive in the long run. You dont know how hard the original owner was on it, and you could easily eat that savings and more with repair costs... So I will stick with new. Although some sites that sell second hand stuff sometimes offer a 90 day warranty, which is better then nothing.

Then agian, the same goes for anything, biking included, but atleast with biking I can fix my own stuff, with my camera, its off to the store :(

[CRAIG2]

At the 20 to 30% discount rate, while nice, but second hand and no warranty (or grey market ones that are new with no warranty) can be very expensive in the long run. You dont know how hard the original owner was on it, and you could easily eat that savings and more with repair costs... So I will stick with new. Although some sites that sell second hand stuff sometimes offer a 90 day warranty, which is better then nothing.

Then agian, the same goes for anything, biking included, but atleast with biking I can fix my own stuff, with my camera, its off to the store :(

Certainly!

1) Buyer beware.

2) Lowest price does not always equal lowest cost.

[GotGills]

I use a rebel XT, love it. I got it because I do shooting underwater and there were more underwater parts available for the XT at the time.... pretty sure that doesn't help you out but none the less, I love the Canon!

[cb4photo]

On a side note, nothing to do with cameras. What are the green dots for? :confused2:

[crack monkey]

On a side note, nothing to do with cameras. What are the green dots for? :confused2:

Online popularity contest. More dots = one of the cool kids. :)

[philvw]

In case you're interested, I bought the Canon XS with the 18-55 lens, UV filter and a 4Gb SD card. Gave it to her yesterday after graduation. She was stunned. Anyway, it is an awesome camera, and the comments left here made my decision very easy. Thanks all for your input, I know I could count on you!

[CRAIG2]

Nice! I also have a polarizing filter that's neat to play around with, too.