Conditions 02.26.09 - Report

[grandma_is_wooting_again]

I rode Fountainhead yesterday. It's muddy in a lot of spots and my rear tire slipped several times on climbs. I ran into another biker on the way in and she suggested that I enter through the exit because the entry loop was the worst. I took her advice so I can't comment on the entry point.

Overall the ground was pretty soft except along ridges. It didn't make for a very fast ride!

[ride-n-fall]

I rode Fountainhead yesterday. It's muddy in a lot of spots and my rear tire slipped several times on climbs. I ran into another biker on the way in and she suggested that I enter through the exit because the entry loop was the worst. I took her advice so I can't comment on the entry point.

Overall the ground was pretty soft except along ridges. It didn't make for a very fast ride!

So before you even entered the trail someone told you that it was too muddy to ride the trail. Instead of packing up and going home, you entered through the exit, because "the entry loop was the worst." Then, you rode where "it's muddy in a lot of spots." Bottom line, you admit you rode in muddy conditions. Do you see a problem with this, or is it just me.

For anyone wondering why the trails get trashed - I show you exhibit A.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I show you exhibit A.

Now that we've examined exhibit A, let me turn your attention to exhibit B (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?p=146702#post146702) . C'mon out and share in the labor (of love). :thumbsup:

[grandma_is_wooting_again]

So before you even entered the trail someone told you that it was too muddy to ride the trail. Instead of packing up and going home, you entered through the exit, because "the entry loop was the worst." Then, you rode where "it's muddy in a lot of spots." Bottom line, you admit you rode in muddy conditions. Do you see a problem with this, or is it just me.

For anyone wondering why the trails get trashed - I show you exhibit A.

How about before you climb onto your self-righteous high horse you stop to consider the following:

EXHIBIT A: The conversation with the other biker went as follows:

Her: "It's pretty wet out there!"
Me: "Like 'too wet'?
Her: "No - just go in through the exit and you'll be fine. It's the entry loop that's really messy".
Me: Okay thanks

EXHIBIT B: An email I wrote on February 25th to Tom Crotty, MORE Fountainhead trail liaison:

MY EMAIL TO TOM:

Hi Tom,

I got your email off the MORE forums. I hope you don't mind me contacting you regarding this - there is no updated posts on the forums. Do you know how the trails at Fountainhead are looking this week? I have never been there and this Thursday I am off from work and would like to give it a shot. Think it will be solid? I'll be heading out around 9AM, when the temperature is supposed to be hovering at 40°.

Thanks!

HIS REPLY:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for writing and I'm glad to help.

During the winter the trails usually need about 48 hours to dry after a rain. As we haven't had any rain during the week, and none is expected, my guess is that the trails should be in good shape. You can post under "Trail Conditions" and ask for the latest conditions if there is any doubt.

As this is your first time out there a few pointers - during the winter the park is closed but the trails are open. About a half mile after you turn into the park you will come across a chain across the road which is where you park. Then ride into the park and after a few hundred yards you will see a parking lot on your right and the trail head on your left.

The trails are an intermediate level and it will take an hour or so to complete the eight mile loop. If you need to cut the ride short, look for the "Bypass to Parking Lot" signs which will cut off some mileage. Also, as we don't do trail maintenance during the winter there may be trees across the trail.

And for a shameless plug - Our first Fountainhead workday will be May 2 at 9:30am. We will be rerouting a trail section.

Have a fun time Thursday ~tom

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That said, I was teetering on the fence about joining MORE and giving back to the wonderful trails I have been riding in the three years I have lived here. Your high & mighty reply has given me the push and I am staying the hell away.

[tuba_transport]

Welcome to MORE

[CRAIG2]

And that's how the fight started... :rolleyes:

[ride-n-fall]

How about before you climb onto your self-righteous high horse you stop to consider the following:

EXHIBIT A: The conversation with the other biker went as follows:

Her: "It's pretty wet out there!"
Me: "Like 'too wet'?
Her: "No - just go in through the exit and you'll be fine. It's the entry loop that's really messy".
Me: Okay thanks

EXHIBIT B: An email I wrote on February 25th to Tom Crotty, MORE Fountainhead trail liaison:

MY EMAIL TO TOM:

Hi Tom,

I got your email off the MORE forums. I hope you don't mind me contacting you regarding this - there is no updated posts on the forums. Do you know how the trails at Fountainhead are looking this week? I have never been there and this Thursday I am off from work and would like to give it a shot. Think it will be solid? I'll be heading out around 9AM, when the temperature is supposed to be hovering at 40°.

Thanks!

HIS REPLY:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for writing and I'm glad to help.

During the winter the trails usually need about 48 hours to dry after a rain. As we haven't had any rain during the week, and none is expected, my guess is that the trails should be in good shape. You can post under "Trail Conditions" and ask for the latest conditions if there is any doubt.

As this is your first time out there a few pointers - during the winter the park is closed but the trails are open. About a half mile after you turn into the park you will come across a chain across the road which is where you park. Then ride into the park and after a few hundred yards you will see a parking lot on your right and the trail head on your left.

The trails are an intermediate level and it will take an hour or so to complete the eight mile loop. If you need to cut the ride short, look for the "Bypass to Parking Lot" signs which will cut off some mileage. Also, as we don't do trail maintenance during the winter there may be trees across the trail.

And for a shameless plug - Our first Fountainhead workday will be May 2 at 9:30am. We will be rerouting a trail section.

Have a fun time Thursday ~tom

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That said, I was teetering on the fence about joining MORE and giving back to the wonderful trails I have been riding in the three years I have lived here. Your high & mighty reply has given me the push and I am staying the hell away.

Where to start. First, you will not join MORE because I said something that hurt your delicate feelings? That is funny! Life is not all puppy dogs and ice cream, my friend! Occasionally in life feelings get hurt, even delicate feelings.

Second, your quotation of the conversation with the other rider is all that I needed to hear. She told you it was too wet to ride the trail the way it is supposed to be ridden. Again, rather than pack up and call it a day, you chose to enter the trail through the designated exit. Did you stop to think that maybe if you couldn't ride the trail the way it was supposed to be ridden, maybe you should not ride?

Third, your original post acknowledged that Fountainhead was "muddy in a lot of spots." Presumably you refer to spots other than the entrance loop, which you claim to have avoided. At any point did you hit one of the muddy spots and say to yourself, "self, maybe the trail is too muddy to ride." It is apparent that, even if you did say that, you ignored it and kept on riding.

Finally, if Tom told you that the bridge was ok to jump off, would you? Or, would you maybe look over the edge and evaluate it yourself? Tom's email was clear that his comment on the trail conditions was a "guess." Maybe, just maybe, this called for a little independent judgment on your behalf and, if Tom's "guess" was wrong, you should not have been riding. I guess that was too much to ask.

Have a nice day!

[jabberwocky]

That said, I was teetering on the fence about joining MORE and giving back to the wonderful trails I have been riding in the three years I have lived here. Your high & mighty reply has given me the push and I am staying the hell away.If you think that MORE is worth supporting (or not), fine, but to say you won't join because someone said something kinda not nice on a message board is just silly.

You'll find that some people on here are pretty touchy about riding in the wet. I do agree that many are too quick to get on the high horse and talk down to people rather than work to educate. Its an understandable problem when you consider the amount of work that many of us put into maintaining the trails (a lot of which is repairing damage incurred by inconsiderate or ignorant people riding when the trails are wet). When you spend multiple weekends every year out there trying to fix damaged trails, you get angry pretty quickly when someone talks about anything that sounds remotely like mud riding.

It sounds like you tried to do some due diligence (which is appreciated), but it also sounds like the trail was marginal. If the ground is soft enough to slow you down, its almost certainly too soft to be riding. Tom was giving you his best guess, but you still need to use your own judgement when you get out there.

[CRAIG2]

Group hug? heheheh

[Squirrel Girl]

That said, I was teetering on the fence about joining MORE and giving back to the wonderful trails I have been riding in the three years I have lived here. Your high & mighty reply has given me the push and I am staying the hell away.
I'm sorry that it was offensive to you that people assumed the worst about what you wrote.

The subject of what is too muddy to ride has been a lively subject here at MORE for a long time. It gets very frustrating for the people who have done trail work for several years, then find huge rutted tire marks all over when people shouldn't have been riding. It happens a lot and people have gotten very frustrated over it. So your first posting wasn't so informative and people jumped to what might have been a semi-obvious conclusion.

So is there a chance you can realize that people here *care* about trails and do a lot of work for them? If people occasionally put their feet in their mouths, they might be forgiven?

I do think that it's a good thing for old timers to remember what it's like for a newer-to-the-club person to come along and that being welcoming is a good thing!

http://www.deepcaves.net/smilies/console.gif

[kmax]

http://www.deepcaves.net/smilies/console.gif


HAHA!!! I LOVE that emoticon!

Sorry. Off topic.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

You'll find that some people on here are pretty touchy about riding in the wet. I do agree that many are too quick to get on the high horse and talk down to people rather than work to educate.

I do think that it's a good thing for old timers to remember what it's like for a newer-to-the-club person to come along and that being welcoming is a good thing!

I was hoping that by not writing much other than the link to the trail work day schedules, we could've avoided the whole wet-trail mud slinging (ha! get it?) fest. Since I've been a MORE member for only 1 year, it wasn't hard for me to step into the OP's shoe, hence, I bit my tongue (wasn't hard, I kinda knew ppl were going to lose their sh*t as soon as the word "mud" came up.

To the OP, like Jabs said, this is a message board, don't take offense to much and don't let one poster's comments rub you the wrong way.

welcome to MORE.:)

[plojaa]

If the trail is kicking up significant mud that one's bike is covered then why would one ride their bike so as to prematurely wear it out. Mud - although slick - is not a very good lubricant - nor the hosing required to get the mud off.

So if the trail conditions aren't enough to keep one off...just think of the investment in one's bike. Just a thought..... :thumbsup:

If folks want to ride in mud...then race cyclocross.....riding in muddy conditions is encouraged.

[grandma_is_wooting_again]

If the trail is kicking up significant mud that one's bike is covered then why would one ride their bike so as to prematurely wear it out. Mud - although slick - is not a very good lubricant - nor the hosing required to get the mud off.

So if the trail conditions aren't enough to keep one off...just think of the investment in one's bike. Just a thought..... :thumbsup:

If folks want to ride in mud...then race cyclocross.....riding in muddy conditions is encouraged.

My bike was clean enough to bring into our carpeted apartment without my wife freaking out, which is pretty darn clean.

I got upset after the initial reply because I felt like I was doing something helpful in notifying others of the trail conditions. I am not some degenerate punk who is looking to destroy hard work done by others. I don't find it enjoyable to ride in the mud and had I felt like conditions warranted turning around I would have.

[CRAIG2]

My bike was clean enough to bring into our carpeted apartment without my wife freaking out, which is pretty darn clean.



In all fairness, that's a really, really good metric... heheheh :D

[Squirrel Girl]

HAHA!!! I LOVE that emoticon!

Sorry. Off topic.
Thanks. I'm not sure, but I think that's the first time I've had the opportunity to use it!

And for Craig.....
http://www.deepcaves.net/smilies/grouphug.gif

[eloach]

I rode Fountainhead yesterday. It's muddy in a lot of spots and my rear tire slipped several times on climbs. I ran into another biker on the way in and she suggested that I enter through the exit because the entry loop was the worst. I took her advice so I can't comment on the entry point.

Overall the ground was pretty soft except along ridges. It didn't make for a very fast ride!

Hey, thanks for posting up. You have just saved me a trip over to check it out early AM tomorrow. I kind of figured it was a mess.

I appreciate ALL posts on these boards about trail conditions. Right now I am trying to find out about Gambrill, and guessing that's a mess as well.

Looks like maybe road bike in the AM.

Ignore the "glass housed" comments of others. They serve no purpose but happen anyways... like so many things in life. :rolleyes:

The "reason" to join MORE is not social (clearly!), it's to provide some political organization to advocate for mountain biking. I joined when I realized that MORE was responsible for almost EVERY trail in the area. When I saw an organization that had accomplished that much for MTBing, I felt very comfortable throwing in with them, even if it's a big group with diverse behaviors. The idea is to build trails and keep mountain biking vital in our area. I think MORE has done that and continues to do that.

[DaveG]

Ignore the "glass housed" comments of others. They serve no purpose but happen anyways... like so many things in life. :rolleyes:


Heh. It seems to me that a lot of the people here like to talk the talk when it comes to staying off muddy trails but often don't walk the walk.

Myself included on rare occasion as well.

[soreback]

That said, I was teetering on the fence about joining MORE and giving back to the wonderful trails I have been riding in the three years I have lived here. Your high & mighty reply has given me the push and I am staying the hell away.

5% off bike purchases, and 10% off parts and labor at the sponsoring bike stores... thats all that really matters ;)