PDA

View Full Version : Going tubeless with WTB Tubed tires... (Stupidly long post -- as usual)


Dirt
March 22nd, 2005, 01:59 PM
Greetings inhabitants of the planet earty.

Be careful running WTB tubed tires with Stans. WTB is taking efforts to prevent people from doing that. I've purchased and mounted 7 WTB tires since January.. 3 Motoraptors, 2 mutano raptors and 2 Exiwolves. All of them have very small perforations in the sidewall that are put there by WTB.

When you fill a tire the first time, it sounds like air is leaking out of the tube. The first time I did this, I swore under my breath and went to fix the tube. There wasn't a hole in the tube. I thought that was a little weird. I re-installed it and again there was the SSSSSSSSSSsssssssssss of air leaking out. I found the spot in the sidewall. I spoke a few obsceneties and took the tube out again.. .thinking that I must have missed the hole in the tube. I marked the place where it was leaking with a sharpie, I got out a brand new tube. I used talc on it and was extremely careful not to pinch it. The tire was new, but I checked the inside of the tire just to make sure there wasn't anyting poking through.

I installed the new tube and pumped it up. Sure enough, there is air leaking out the sidewall where I'd marked. You could see little puffs of talc coming out. I swore in a manner that Bad Santa would be proud of.

I decided to just walk away and relax. Obviously there was something wrong with the tire, both tubes or the rim or all of the above. I wasn't feeling like troubleshooting it at the moment.

I came back an hour later and the tire was still fully aired up. It was a little low on pressure, but the leak that I'd heard would have drained the tire in a matter of a minute or two. I pumped it up to the right pressure and it has been great ever since.

This same stuff happened to me with the other 6 WTBs. I looked carefully at each tire where the air was leaking out and you can see 4 little perforations. The air that is leaking out is the air that is trapped between the outside of the tube and the inside of the tire. Once that is gone, the air stops leaking and your tube has a little less air pressure in it.

I've documented that with all of the WTB tires that I've installed lately. I was even able to recreate it on the trail with a Mutanoraptor that had 3 months of use.

I'm a tubie kinda guy. I don't have much use for Stans or tubeless stuff. This poses no problem to me other than the initial waste of time. I thought it might be good information for you folks.

I've had confirmation on this problem from a buddy who works at a shop that sells a lot of WTB stuff. Rumor has it that WTB will be labeling their non-tubeless tires "Not for use without a tube".

It is sad that they have to do this. It makes sense though. They've gotten a bad rap on some times because people were blowing them off the rim running them tubeless.

Sorry this is so long. I've basically got nothing better to do for the next 30 minutes.

I come in peace.

Pete

mscard
March 22nd, 2005, 03:05 PM
It says right on Stan's website and in the instructions not to use a WTB tire because the beads aren't strong enough for use as a tubeless tire.

As a result, I can't say I blame WTB. Even with 3 warnings (tire label, Stans website and Stans directions) you know people are still going to try and then sue WTB when their tire explodes. Personally, I'd rather see WTB take it upon themselves to make it impossible for somebody to be irresponsible with their product than for them to go under due to frivolous lawsuits by people who can't follow instructions.

Dirt
March 22nd, 2005, 03:22 PM
I agree. I'm glad WTB is doing it. I was going to say that I wished that I'd known before I got to use my favorite selections from the "colorful" category in my limited vocabulary. It is probably a good thing for me to trot those words out and let them do their stuff in the privacy of my own home. The cats just tilt their heads and look at me like I'm a loon anyways.

All is good. Just thought I'd explain what I'd found.

Pete

ODG
March 22nd, 2005, 04:03 PM
That's interesting, thanks for the info! I just ordered a set of WTB Velociraptors so you potentially saved me from the frustrations you suffered.

mscard
March 22nd, 2005, 04:56 PM
Sorry for jumping to conclusions Peter! I guess I was really just venting some frustration over folks who don't like to follow directions! I need to get out of the office and ride!

Dirt
March 22nd, 2005, 05:15 PM
Sorry for jumping to conclusions Peter! I guess I was really just venting some frustration over folks who don't like to follow directions! I need to get out of the office and ride!

All humans are nothing but money grubbing poop makers waiting for the next opportunity to sue their best friend.

All is good. :)

Pete

themonkeyman
March 26th, 2005, 06:05 PM
Do the perforations pose any risk of the sidewall splitting along the holes? :eek: :( I hope not, because I just got a set of velociraptors from somebody. They've never been used, and came spec'd on a bike. I'll have to look for the perforations.

Thanks for the heads-up--Graham

riderx
March 26th, 2005, 09:41 PM
Hmmm, I just installed a 29er Exiwolf last night, purchased from Speedgoat, and I looked it over several times and listened when I inflated things. No holes.

Dirt
March 27th, 2005, 08:31 AM
Hmmm, I just installed a 29er Exiwolf last night, purchased from Speedgoat, and I looked it over several times and listened when I inflated things. No holes.

I'd be really surprised if they were not there. I'm only able to see them if the air is moving through them. If you had a fair amount of air in the tube when you installed it, there might not have been much air between the tube and the tire casing to push it through. It may not happen if you have a bead that doesn't set extremely tightly like the Mavic rims do with WTBs.

I've had many comments from service managers and two shop owners who sell a lot of WTB tires that made this same observation.

I installed a set of WTB tires on a friend's bike and they did the same freaking thing.

Someone asked if it challenges the integrity of the sidewalls. It doesn't appear to. I don't think WTB would do anything like this that would make their tires not function correctly.

Pete

riderx
March 27th, 2005, 08:59 AM
I'd be really surprised if they were not there. I'm only able to see them if the air is moving through them. If you had a fair amount of air in the tube when you installed it, there might not have been much air between the tube and the tire casing to push it through. Brand new tube. I searched high and low, don't see it. I assume it's in a consistent location on the tires - if so is it near the label or some other easily located area?

Dirt
March 27th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Brand new tube. I searched high and low, don't see it. I assume it's in a consistent location on the tires - if so is it near the label or some other easily located area?

If the valve stem is at 6 o'clock, the holes are at 2 o'clock on one side.

Pete

riderx
March 28th, 2005, 03:05 PM
If the valve stem is at 6 o'clock, the holes are at 2 o'clock on one side.

PeteI know I'm an idiot, but the valve stem is on the tube, not the tire. What am I missing in your explanation?

Dirt
March 28th, 2005, 04:34 PM
I know I'm an idiot, but the valve stem is on the tube, not the tire. What am I missing in your explanation?

Sorry. You're not the one who is the idiot. I always line up the label of the tire with the valve stem. With the tire label at 6 oclock, the holes are at 2 oclock. It is only on one side, so you'll need to check both. I went back and couldn't find them after two months of riding on my Mutanoraptors, but I found them on one of my exiwolf tires that are only two weeks old. I couldn't see them on the other.

Sorry for not being clear. I've been going about 15 different directions the last few months.

Pete

ODG
March 28th, 2005, 04:52 PM
No signs of hissing or slits when I installed my velociraptors.

Dirt
March 29th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I don't mean this to be a negative thing about WTB tires. I've had great luck with their tires and personally, I like a lot of the tread patterns they make. I don't run tubeless and don't really ever plan to. I'll keep on buying WTB tires until something better comes along.

If you're not experiencing this, GREAT! You may have a set of tires that don't have these perforations. You may have a rim that allows air to be released from inside the tire before it leaks out through these holes. They're small enough that you really would only notice them if you felt the air coming out. If your rim strip doesn't get a perfect seal around the spoke holes, you'd never have that build up in pressure.

There are a lot of variables involved that bring this problem out. If you do things differently than I do, then you may never see this issue. That is okay -- in fact, most people who know me on this board would suggest doing things as differently from the way I do is always the best policy. ;)

I've seen this often enough in the last few months that I thought I'd post it up in case someone is trying to run WTB tires with a tubeless system. I posted something similar on MTBR and heard from some shop owners and many individuals that have experienced similar things with their WTB tires.

It is time to go riding. :)

Pete

riderx
March 29th, 2005, 09:35 AM
I don't mean this to be a negative thing about WTB tires. I've had great luck with their tires and personally, I like a lot of the tread patterns they make. I don't run tubeless and don't really ever plan to. I'll keep on buying WTB tires until something better comes along. I agree on all points. WTB rocks and no tubeless for me!