Garmin Edge 605

[denisvtt]

My folks are in town and for Xmas they want to give me a GPS. I'm thinking Garmin Edge 605.

3 questions:

- any place local where I can get it quick without overpaying?

- If not local, where?

- any one think the 605 is NOT a good idea? I ride pretty much literally *everywhere*, including in Europe.

[MD Fire]

-Got mine off ebay

-Ebay

-I think it is great and it has worked flawlessly from North Carolina to Maine, however, I am not sure if it will work in europe. Hopefully someone else can key you in on that.

[ride-n-fall]

My folks are in town and for Xmas they want to give me a GPS. I'm thinking Garmin Edge 605.

3 questions:

- any place local where I can get it quick without overpaying?

- If not local, where?

- any one think the 605 is NOT a good idea? I ride pretty much literally *everywhere*, including in Europe.

I would look at REI or someplace like that. REI has a fantastic return policy, so it may be worth paying a little more than you would pay online. If you are going to get it online, buy from geomangear.com. This place is great and ships that day - I had a couple of new mounts for my 305 in 2 days without paying express shipping! Plus, look at MTBR, Geoman has a fantastic reputation for customer service.

[crashmore]

Might want to try rei.

[sourceofdenial]

Geomangear is great, the 705 with cadence, HR, map is 531, which is cheaper than I've found on ebay and such.

[jabberwocky]

If you are going to buy online, another vote for geomangear. They ship super fast and have excellent service. I bought my 305 from them and have emailed a few times with questions and they've always gotten back really quickly with good info. The guy who runs the place posts a lot on the GPS forum on MTBR.

Locally, REI is probably your best bet. Also, if Pete misses this thread drop him an email; he has a 705 and I think he's used it in Europe.

[tsunayoshi]

Damn, they have a nice cyclist's kit (http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=16&zenid=etculj9otv9voem4r7efmtqej5) for the 305 Edge. To bad the Xmas $$ have already been spent :(

[jvanbrecht]

My folks are in town and for Xmas they want to give me a GPS. I'm thinking Garmin Edge 605.

3 questions:

- any place local where I can get it quick without overpaying?

- If not local, where?

- any one think the 605 is NOT a good idea? I ride pretty much literally *everywhere*, including in Europe.

The best buy near me has a couple (or did 2 weeks ago when wife decided she did not want the forerunner 405 they had).

Any online purchase is going to have you paying $50+ in shipping if you want it by xmas day...

REI has them, but I have noticed their prices are higher then the big box stores.... Amazon has them as well, and usually the price fluctuates as well, so if time is not an issue, add the unit to your cart, and check it periodically, when its low enough, check out..

Edit: Also, the cost difference is not that bad, you should try for the 705... It has a altimeter, the 605 does not, so for data purposes, you will lack elevation data on the 605

[DaveG]

My folks are in town and for Xmas they want to give me a GPS. I'm thinking Garmin Edge 605.

3 questions:

- any place local where I can get it quick without overpaying?

- If not local, where?

- any one think the 605 is NOT a good idea? I ride pretty much literally *everywhere*, including in Europe.


As everyone mentioned, geoman is great; that's where I bought my 305. What are you looking for in a GPS? I personally love my 305, and if they're still selling them will probably be a ton cheaper than the 605.

[nocro]

You know that rumor has it Garmin is going to come out with an android enabled cell phone / gps device, right?

[denisvtt]

What are you looking for in a GPS?

- keeping track of my workouts totals, including ride time, mileage and elevation.

- keeping track of my HR. Calories are also nice! (Gives me a quantifiable excuse to overeat!)

- be able to download GPS tracks from other people having done a particular ride and just follow the arrow

- same as above but the track would be from a previous ride of mine

When I did the Jura-Alps 750-mile ride (http://chazellefamily.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2572) this summer, 2 of my ridemates had the GPSmap 60 CSx (see below). We downloaded the tracks for the entire ride from a Euro track-sharing site (http://www.utagawavtt.com/) that included comments. We just followed the arrow from mile 1 to mile 750, and all the trails were shown. It was absolutely great except that it wouldn't have either HR or calories. HR is fairly important to me. It might also be a bit overkill for local rides.

http://chazellefamily.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2585&g2_serialNumber=2

[jabberwocky]

It sounds like the 605/705 is perfect for you then. The 305 has all the workout and later downloading functions, but would be extremely primitive for uploading tracks to follow (it can be done, but all it gives you is a line to follow; no surrounding terrrain, roads, etc). Plus the screen is monochrome and small.

The 605/705 has all that plus a large color screen and it works as a navigational aid. I'm not sure what map coverage is like, but I imagine that if you could get maps for the 60cs you can get them for the 605 as well.

As jvanbrecht noted, the 705 adds a barometric altimeter, which will give you much more accurate elevation profiles. The 605 takes its elevation from the GPS satellites which can be somewhat hit-or-miss. Its up to you whether thats worth the extra cost.

[MD Fire]

It sounds like the 605/705 is perfect for you then. The 305 has all the workout and later downloading functions, but would be extremely primitive for uploading tracks to follow (it can be done, but all it gives you is a line to follow; no surrounding terrrain, roads, etc). Plus the screen is monochrome and small.

The 605/705 has all that plus a large color screen and it works as a navigational aid. I'm not sure what map coverage is like, but I imagine that if you could get maps for the 60cs you can get them for the 605 as well.

As jvanbrecht noted, the 705 adds a barometric altimeter, which will give you much more accurate elevation profiles. The 605 takes its elevation from the GPS satellites which can be somewhat hit-or-miss. Its up to you whether thats worth the extra cost.

I agree totally with this.

I downloaded tracks for my Maine trip this summer and it was very useful. The software that comes with the 605 is great for tracking workouts.

You don't need the HR monitor to do calories, but it will be much more accurate with it. As jabberwocky said, the 605 uses satellites for elevation. I was surpised to see that while pushing my bike up a trail too rocky to ride (up at least) the display said I was loosing elevation. Otherwise, it is great!

[rizetech]

some rei info - the 705 is definitely in most of the stores, the 605 is a little harder to come by, so call the store you're going to first and make sure, and have them check the other ones if they don't have it... and there's a pretty big price difference, like 499 vs 649 last time i looked.

[CRAIG2]

some rei info - the 705 is definitely in most of the stores, the 605 is a little harder to come by, so call the store you're going to first and make sure, and have them check the other ones if they don't have it... and there's a pretty big price difference, like 499 vs 649 last time i looked.

Yep, $649 is still the list price (note that I said "list" - who pays list for anything??) for the 705, though, the 605 now appears to list for $399:

http://www.cdwg.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1351318&enkwrd=ALLPROD%3aGarmin+Edge+605

Just found this on Cabelas:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0054772229059a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=Garmin&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fs earch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

$499 for at least one variation of the 705 with the HRM. Sure beats $649!

C.

[DaveG]

- keeping track of my HR. Calories are also nice! (Gives me a quantifiable excuse to overeat!)

Keep in mind that the calorie estimates from the Garmin HR monitors are usually quite high. Compared to the powertap on my road bike, they can show up to twice as many calories burned.

So, don't eat as much as the garmin tells you were burned!

[denisvtt]

You don't need the HR monitor to do calories, but it will be much more accurate with it.
Do I understand correctly that the 605 comes WITHOUT the HR monitor? How much more is it then to add it separately?

[jvanbrecht]

My understanding is thatthe 605 has no support for any peripheral deviceslike the he monitor and the cadence sensor, but I could be wrong, and it may just notcome with them.

[eloach]

If you are going to buy online, another vote for geomangear. They ship super fast and have excellent service. I bought my 305 from them and have emailed a few times with questions and they've always gotten back really quickly with good info. The guy who runs the place posts a lot on the GPS forum on MTBR.

Locally, REI is probably your best bet. Also, if Pete misses this thread drop him an email; he has a 705 and I think he's used it in Europe.

Another vote here! Geomangear has been good to me.

Word of warning -
One of my riding buddies has a 705 and has sent it back for repair/replacement 6 times already. So, for now I am sticking with my 305s and Legend CX. I think I would have heaved the thing against a wall about the third time around. On the other hand, it demonstrates that Garmin has decent customer service. I don't think they have ever tried to extort money from him.

[DaveG]

Another vote here! Geomangear has been good to me.

Word of warning -
One of my riding buddies has a 705 and has sent it back for repair/replacement 6 times already. So, for now I am sticking with my 305s and Legend CX. I think I would have heaved the thing against a wall about the third time around. On the other hand, it demonstrates that Garmin has decent customer service. I don't think they have ever tried to extort money from him.

Yeah, it seems to me that the 705's are considerably more problematical than the older units. My 305 has been rock solid, and it actually gets the advertised run time as well (12+ hours). From what I remember, the early 305's had some issues as well, so I'd bet the 605/705 will be solid soon.

[eloach]

Keep in mind that the calorie estimates from the Garmin HR monitors are usually quite high. Compared to the powertap on my road bike, they can show up to twice as many calories burned.

So, don't eat as much as the garmin tells you were burned!

The Garmin data is largely worthless in terms of elevation and calories. If you use Sport Tracks you get the best results.

For example -
Ride the exact same route twice and get an elevation difference of 2000 feet.

or

Ride to point "a", look at your miles and return to start via the same route. What?!! The total trip is nowhere near point "a" times 2?!!

or

Why do I use more calories on a 10 mile ride then I do on a 10 mile run? The run sure hurts a lot more.

Basically, Garmin must have mice with brain cancer writing their software. It's that bad. If you dissect the data files you will find the data is good... but Garmin apparently couldn't afford to hire a 5th grader to do their math for them.

[CRAIG2]

Do I understand correctly that the 605 comes WITHOUT the HR monitor? How much more is it then to add it separately?


You can get a decent HRM for $100-150. I bought my fiance one made by Timex that she loves, and I think I paid around $130 for it at REI. And, it's not a bad looking watch, either!

[DaveG]

The Garmin data is largely worthless in terms of elevation and calories. If you use Sport Tracks you get the best results.

For example -
Ride the exact same route twice and get an elevation difference of 2000 feet.

or

Ride to point "a", look at your miles and return to start via the same route. What?!! The total trip is nowhere near point "a" times 2?!!

or

Why do I use more calories on a 10 mile ride then I do on a 10 mile run? The run sure hurts a lot more.

Basically, Garmin must have mice with brain cancer writing their software. It's that bad. If you dissect the data files you will find the data is good... but Garmin apparently couldn't afford to hire a 5th grader to do their math for them.

I've had good luck w/ the distance on my 305, and the elevation is good under certain circumstances. It's just the calorie count that's totally out to lunch. The elevation seems pretty good on most road rides. I've have a standard loop on the road from my house and the distances/elevations were:

29.78 - 2850
29.8 - 2872
29.79 - 2831
29.82 - 2847

The elevation is using the MB gravity database though. I think it reads a bit high, but it's consistent. I find the elevation numbers are the most accurate when you're riding places w/ big climbs vs. the little up and down stuff you find closer in. They tend to drastically overestimate the elevation gains when you're riding though twisty singletrack with little ups and downs (I.e. Schaeffer, Hoyles Mill etc)

Even then, my numbers tend to be very consistent; they might read high, but they're usually the same.

[denisvtt]

It's just the calorie count that's totally out to lunch.
Do calories have to watch their diet when they're out to lunch?

[jvanbrecht]

Another vote here! Geomangear has been good to me.

Word of warning -
One of my riding buddies has a 705 and has sent it back for repair/replacement 6 times already. So, for now I am sticking with my 305s and Legend CX. I think I would have heaved the thing against a wall about the third time around. On the other hand, it demonstrates that Garmin has decent customer service. I don't think they have ever tried to extort money from him.

The forerunner 405's apparently also have issues, and there are alot of complaints about its stability... Looks like quality control people at Garmin could use a little hand.

[jvanbrecht]

Here's the thing, these are new units, so there will be issues.. Garmin is pretty good about resolving them, and will if need be, recall and replace units. So if you buy one, while there may be issues in the beginning, they will be resolved.

For what the OP originally wanted, the 605 does not provide the functions, no HRM, and crappy elevation calculations. The difference between the list prices (which as stated no one should ever pay) is $100. the 705 goes up in price when you start adding maps and the cadence sensor. The base model comes with the HRM strap. So if you go with the 705 for 100 more, you get the hrm, or you get the 605 and spend $100 to $150 for a seperate unit.. makes no sense.

You can add the other options later. The upside to both these units, is that they also support street level mapping.

One last option, if you don't mind using other brands, is hit up http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/category/on-bikes (or search for "fitness" under the search box at the same site)
They have alot of information about GPS related stuff, and list some other products for cycling (the catagory above lists motorcycles as well)

[denisvtt]

What do you guys have to say about "waypoints"?

Seems like the MAP60, which is the one we used during the Euro trip, has 1000 of them while the Edge 705 has only 100. Would I still be able to enter a multi-day ride in one shot, or will I have to break it down in smaller units?

Or that's not what waypoints are all about?

[jvanbrecht]

Waypoints are are locations you want to tag for something you want to mark for a specific reason, it's not the same as logging the trail points at a certain interval, usually every 5 or 10 seconds. Like marking a waypoint where you took a picture. Granted a 750 mile ride, 100 waypoints might not be enough.

[denisvtt]

Waypoints are are locations you want to tag for something you want to mark for a specific reason, it's not the same as logging the trail points at a certain interval, usually every 5 or 10 seconds. Like marking a waypoint where you took a picture. Granted a 750 mile ride, 100 waypoints might not be enough.
OK, so if you don't need those tags or you need them little then you're fine with either model for a 750-mile trace upload?

[jabberwocky]

Basically, Garmin must have mice with brain cancer writing their software. It's that bad. If you dissect the data files you will find the data is good... but Garmin apparently couldn't afford to hire a 5th grader to do their math for them.:confused:

I'm not going to say that the calorie calculation is accurate (it actually seems pretty good for road riding but is consistently way high for mountainbiking) but I've never had issues with the distance. If I ride the same route, the Garmin is usually within a few hundredths of a mile for every 10 miles of riding, and matches my old wheel-based computer pretty accurately. The only time the Garmin can get less accurate is very twisty singletrack, and thats more an issue with using GPS (because it takes a reading every second, so it tends to cut tight corners sometimes).

The elevation is pretty accurate in relative terms (it will pretty much always say a 1000 foot climb is a 1000 foot cliimb, plus or minus 15-20 feet or so) but in absolute terms it can vary (it might say that climb starts at 200 feet or 300 feet above sea level). But, again, if I ride the same route multiple times, the total elevation tends to be pretty consistent, plus or minus 5-10% or so.

I will say that I don't use the included garmin software. I use sporttracks, which is clearly superior and also free.

[jvanbrecht]

That all depends, there are limits to the local storage, so for a ride thats 750 miles, that may exceed the limit. At that point you would change the interval from 5 seconds (which I think is the minimum amount of time that can be set between recording location data, to say 20 seconds, or higher.

According to the garmin site, it says routes are limited by memory, and since it does support an SD card, that may permit expansion, but at the same time, it does not say how the SD cards are used, or even if you can record data to them. They may only be useable for storing extra maps.

Another option is to bring along a small laptop, or a netbook (the MSI win is $400, and is tiny, slightly larger then the old HP or TI graphing calculators from 10 years ago, and can easily fit in a camelpack, or paniers, where you can then dump all the GPS data to the netbook/laptop after each leg of the ride, and load up new data.

[BottomBraket]

Denis-

I've been running the Garmin 705 since last May with NO Issues... well maybe one issue- I've misplaced the Heart monitor chest strap.

On it's first ride, I endoed and scratched the display face, but it still works great.

The battery has never run out in any of my rides (including 4-6 hours with you in the Shed North tour)

I do recommend the 705 over the 605, but remember the 705 comes in 3 different package kits.

Edge 705
One of the options below (see versions tab):
1. Heart rate monitor or
2. Heart rate monitor and speed/cadence sensor or
3. Heart rate monitor, speed/cadence sensor and data card preloaded with City Navigator for U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico street maps (maps on a preloaded data card cannot be copied or viewed on a computer)

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=10885#inTheBoxTab

For your needs, I recommend package 2. Buy the maps seperatlly on a CD so you can use them both in the Garmin and on a home computer. Then buy a blank 2 GB microSD memory card for the 705 to hold the maps, pictures, email, and whatever.

My unit did not recognize a 4 GB memory card.

[DaveG]

:confused:
I'm not going to say that the calorie calculation is accurate (it actually seems pretty good for road riding but is consistently way high for mountainbiking) but I've never had issues with the distance.

My Garmin reads really high for road. For example, I did the 80 mile version of the civil war century. My powertap showed that I burned ~3200 calories in 4.5 hours. The garmin estimated 5200. I find the garmin estimates 40-70% high on the road. No idea how accurate it is for mountain biking (not very I'd guess) since I don't have a power meter to measure it against.

The distance is always fine, and is usually just a tiny (but consistent) amount shorter than the unit that measures from my wheels while on the road bike. I'm pretty sure it measures a little short mountain biking, but not enough to worry about.

[jabberwocky]

Yeah, you are right Dave. I had forgotten that Sporttracks now corrects the calorie calculation when I upload. Before I set it to do that, the Garmin value was usually 50% higher than what it should be.

So, yeah, calorie calcs are generally way off.

[eloach]

:confused:

I'm not going to say that the calorie calculation is accurate (it actually seems pretty good for road riding but is consistently way high for mountainbiking) but I've never had issues with the distance. If I ride the same route, the Garmin is usually within a few hundredths of a mile for every 10 miles of riding, and matches my old wheel-based computer pretty accurately. The only time the Garmin can get less accurate is very twisty singletrack, and thats more an issue with using GPS (because it takes a reading every second, so it tends to cut tight corners sometimes).

The elevation is pretty accurate in relative terms (it will pretty much always say a 1000 foot climb is a 1000 foot cliimb, plus or minus 15-20 feet or so) but in absolute terms it can vary (it might say that climb starts at 200 feet or 300 feet above sea level). But, again, if I ride the same route multiple times, the total elevation tends to be pretty consistent, plus or minus 5-10% or so.

I will say that I don't use the included garmin software. I use sporttracks, which is clearly superior and also free.

Like I said, the data file is fine if you view it in a hex or text editor. Sport Tracks calculates properly. Motion Based also cleans up stuff compared to Training Center. With the 705 though, you get to use Garmin Connect... and it sucks in terms of versatility.

In terms of points, I think it is possible to overload them, but it would take a lot of effort on your part. The only time I have done it is when TRYING to enter in a cue sheet for a ride via MAP SOURCE or similar. The software made every direction change into a point... not so good. There is probably a better way to do this. I had a written cue sheet only and was attempting to create a map and GPX file. Yuck. This was on the Legends CX and the 705 has a lot more points available.

I have had distance differences in out and back situations of up to 10%, likely due to GPS dropout or other reception factors. That's with the 305s, especially the wrist mounted unit.

Elevation numbers are an entirely different issue. The problem for me is that if you roll DOWN a small hill at Schaeffer and UP the other side the "climb" is added in. With Sport Tracks you can adjust this type of thing OUT to some extent, but not entirely. The point is, 2000 feet of climbing at ROSE is NOT 2000 feet of climbing in GWNF because you actually ROLLED the majority of it at ROSE. So, I find it very misleading to look at summary climbing totals and so forth. You can really end up fooling yourself. Look at the elevation profile and calculate for yourself the amount of sustained climbing.

The calorie calculations do not appear to take into account elevation change (that would be some tough math for sure)... so again, if I ride 20 miles at WF at 12 MPH it's hardly the same as riding 12 miles up a fire road at 12 MPH out in GWNF. On top of all of that, calorie burning is gong to vary by individual due to several factors. It's not accurate to say that it takes "n calories to move a 170 pound rider up a 2 mile climb"... not in terms of a HUMAN BURNING OF CALORIES FOR ENERGY. So again, it's somewhat misleading if you use it as training information.

My point is, a GPS is good for staying found as long as the batteries and device are working. It's good for knowing distance, time and route +/- a bit. The rest of the information is useful mostly for ballpark comparisons and marketing.

[denisvtt]

I do recommend the 705 over the 605, but remember the 705 comes in 3 different package kits.

Edge 705
One of the options below (see versions tab):
1. Heart rate monitor or
2. Heart rate monitor and speed/cadence sensor or
3. Heart rate monitor, speed/cadence sensor and data card preloaded with City Navigator for U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico street maps (maps on a preloaded data card cannot be copied or viewed on a computer)

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=10885#inTheBoxTab

For your needs, I recommend package 2. Buy the maps seperatlly on a CD so you can use them both in the Garmin and on a home computer. Then buy a blank 2 GB microSD memory card for the 705 to hold the maps, pictures, email, and whatever.

My unit did not recognize a 4 GB memory card.

OK but the best deal out there that I can see is on geomangear and it is option 3 for $531.39. It says

"Accepts data cards: YES. Preloaded MicroSD cardData card included with this model"

Does "preloaded" mean the card doesn't come with it, just the data?

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=70

[DaveG]

The point is, 2000 feet of climbing at ROSE is NOT 2000 feet of climbing in GWNF because you actually ROLLED the majority of it at ROSE. So, I find it very misleading to look at summary climbing totals and so forth. You can really end up fooling yourself. Look at the elevation profile and calculate for yourself the amount of sustained climbing.


I agree with the completely. I can do a 3000 foot climbing ride up in the 'shed vs. 3000 feet @ Schaeffer and Hoyles mill and there's no comparison. I'm actually going up climbs that last 1200 feet in Frederick vs. quick little 20 foot rollers that add up w/o really doing any climbing.

On top of all of that, calorie burning is gong to vary by individual due to several factors. It's not accurate to say that it takes "n calories to move a 170 pound rider up a 2 mile climb"... not in terms of a HUMAN BURNING OF CALORIES FOR ENERGY. So again, it's somewhat misleading if you use it as training information.

Well, not really. Work is work. There is a slight amount of difference in efficiency between different people but generally two 170 pound people will expend the same number of calories to climb the same hill. If one person is in significantly better shape it may _appear_ that he's doing less work, but it's only that he's putting out less power in relation to his maximum. He's burning close to the same amount of calories as the guy huffing and puffing next to him.

It's counter intuitive, but if you get in better shape you'll actually burn more calories at a lower level of perceived exertion, assuming you keep ramping up the speed. It certainly _seems_ like you should be burning a lot more calories when you're out of shape and dying while going slowly, but that's not the case.

[DaveG]

OK but the best deal out there that I can see is on geomangear and it is option 3 for $531.39. It says

"Accepts data cards: YES. Preloaded MicroSD cardData card included with this model"

Does "preloaded" mean the card doesn't come with it, just the data?

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=70

It's a micro SD card pre loaded with the following: City Navigator for U.S., Canada and Puerto Rico street maps


You would probably need to load another SD card w/ the Europe maps.

[denisvtt]

It's counter intuitive, but if you get in better shape you'll actually burn more calories at a lower level of perceived exertion, assuming you keep ramping up the speed. It certainly _seems_ like you should be burning a lot more calories when you're out of shape and dying while going slowly, but that's not the case.
So calorie expenditure has no relationship to heart rate?

[PS: Off to spend a few calories on the Hoyles Mill Connector]

[Brizn]

You should get the 905. It comes with a DVD player and LCD screen to mount in the rear of your saddle. :thumbsup:

[denisvtt]

You should get the 905. It comes with a DVD player and LCD screen to mount in the rear of your saddle. :thumbsup:
And why would that be any better than the spectacle my rear end and I offer you for free on any trail that has more than a negative incline?

[DaveG]

So calorie expenditure has no relationship to heart rate?

[PS: Off to spend a few calories on the Hoyles Mill Connector]


Have fun riding.

It does, but really only relative to the person. I.e. I'm going to be burning more calories at 90% of my HR than I am at 50%, but I could be burning more at 50% than ANOTHER person is at 75%.

I was going to head out for a road ride, but I wimped out; it's just too cold. I didn't get out early enough to get the trails when they were frozen either.

[BottomBraket]

OK but the best deal out there that I can see is on geomangear and it is option 3 for $531.39. It says

"Accepts data cards: YES. Preloaded MicroSD cardData card included with this model"

Does "preloaded" mean the card doesn't come with it, just the data?

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=70

The map data is probably on a microSD memory card that you can put in and take out of the 705. If you can find option 3 cheaper than option 2, just get option 3. You can still buy topo maps on CD and load them to the option 3 data card if it has enough memory. The option 3 data card likely has only 256 MB, but the 705 can take up to a 2 GB card. If you want to store lots of data you can just buy a 2 GB card.

[gte534j]

before you delve into the edge abyss, you might want to read the motionbased forum:
http://forums.motionbased.com/smf/index.php?board=86.0
It is a excellent information resource and you can get almost any problem addressed on the forum. I have had my 705 since April (actually, my 5th warranty replacement), so I have a lot of experience with them. If you do get it, go all out and get the 705 w/ cadence/HR/city nav microSD map. Its nice to navigate w/ it like you can in your car. Be ware though, the unit is very complicated and does have quite a few problems. And yes, the calorie calculation is crap, and the total ascent has issues too.

[plojaa]

If you are still planning to get a 705 and haven't yet...wait....especially if you plan to use a any Power Meter with one...as the Google Wattage group has had lots of discussion on how the 705 deals w/ Power - and it needs updating to make it really worthwhile. No power...its probably a great device