head tube ovalization....

[paulson]

i've got several issues going on with my new road build and they all revolve around the headset (which came used as part of the frame fork combo).

Anyway, in a nutshell...I'd like to know if its possible for the head tube to be ovalized yet not exhibit the usual signs of irregularity where the cups are pressed into the frame. The headset is external, and the frame is ti....and there is no detectable irregularity or looseness where the cups meet the frame (a typical sign of ovalization right?).

I guess I'm just paranoid that the: "headset that doesn't want to stay tightened down properly" is not a: slipping stem on carbon steerer and/or worn out headset situation like I'm hoping for.

I do have a new hs on the way, but it won't be on the bike til Thursday so I'm fretting in the meantime.....

[kenholmes]

could you please describe your original problem.

[paulson]

The primary issue is the gradual loosening of my headset (development of some play) after about 15 minutes of riding.

I've checked to make sure I have enough space above the stem/spacer for the top cap to pre-load the headset (although the crappily designed compression plug in the carbon steerer is also prone to slip during this process - its the 2 piece sleeve kind).

I do the standard: "grab the front brake and check for play" before riding....but about 15 minutes in, I can start to feel some slop. Then sure enough I'll stop, do the brake check and see the play. Now, I know I'm torqueing the stem bolts down properly so the stem shouldn't be the issue. I was reading that some people have issues with the carbon steerer/stem slipping....and so I'm hoping I can clean the steerer tube and inside of the stem and remount it (perhaps I got a bit of grease on there during the install).

So the bottom line is that I'm hoping its simply the stem....but after reading various things online about the self-loosening headset issue being an indicator of ovalization...I'm simply getting paranoid, and impatient.

I guess I'm mostly just looking for somebody to say: "there's no way in hell you have an ovalized head tube on your dream bike" ;-0

[DaveG]

The primary issue is the gradual loosening of my headset (development of some play) after about 15 minutes of riding.

I've checked to make sure I have enough space above the stem/spacer for the top cap to pre-load the headset (although the crappily designed compression plug in the carbon steerer is also prone to slip during this process - its the 2 piece sleeve kind).

I do the standard: "grab the front brake and check for play" before riding....but about 15 minutes in, I can start to feel some slop. Then sure enough I'll stop, do the brake check and see the play. Now, I know I'm torqueing the stem bolts down properly so the stem shouldn't be the issue. I was reading that some people have issues with the carbon steerer/stem slipping....and so I'm hoping I can clean the steerer tube and inside of the stem and remount it (perhaps I got a bit of grease on there during the install).

So the bottom line is that I'm hoping its simply the stem....but after reading various things online about the self-loosening headset issue being an indicator of ovalization...I'm simply getting paranoid, and impatient.

I guess I'm mostly just looking for somebody to say: "there's no way in hell you have an ovalized head tube on your dream bike" ;-0

There's no way in hell you have an ovalized head tube on your dream bike.

Don't quote me on that though ;) Doesn't sound like ovalization to me. I've had that happen a few times, and it always manifested itself as creaking vs. loosening of the stem. I was able to pull the bottom headset cup out of the frame by hand.

[august]

I had an ovalized headtube on an old cannondale frame. I didn't have to use a headset press to get the cups in. I used loctite on the cups and never had a problem.

[OverStuffed]

Check for proper tolerances at the fork crown. I had similar problems with a steel frame and fork, turned out it was a loose crown race (That got even looser over time). If it wasn't machined/installed correctly, it's not too hard to do....

[BikerMiker]

Sounds like you are missing a part or two in the headset assembly. What kind is it?

If the headset is tight when you snug down the stem, the stem AND the faux-star nut have to be moving which is possible but not probable.

You should have a King headset on your dream bike...

mk

[DaveG]

Sounds like you are missing a part or two in the headset assembly. What kind is it?

If the headset is tight when you snug down the stem, the stem AND the faux-star nut have to be moving which is possible but not probable.

You should have a King headset on your dream bike...

mk

I'm all over the Chris King HS love. They all seem to develop creaks for me. I just switched over to a Cane Creek 110 and it's pretty sweet.

I'm back to digging their hubs though ;)

[drevil]

I'm all over the Chris King HS love. They all seem to develop creaks for me.
Ditto. I've moved on to Cane Creeks also.

Tell us what parts you're "rockin'" ;)

[paulson]

Thanks for the feedback guys

Yeah, the headset blows. Its a Race Face Team SL that is totally out of place on the bike. Its not obviously worn out or anything, but I had the same model on an mtb years ago, and it was also shortlived.

if you're curious, pics of the bike are on my most recent blog post here (http://www.300to30.com)

I've got CK on all my other bikes (and one destined for my new Walt as well), but for whatever reason I decided to go with a more pedestrian CC S-8 this time around. TBL should have that in for me tomorrow...and hopefully then we'll see if its the headset.

Based on what I've heard elsewhere, I guess the odds of the head tube on a ti road bike getting ovalized are pretty minimal....so crossing my fingers its just the crappy hs.

[paulson]

for starters, the guys at TBL are great. Thanks Jay and Joe for helping me out yesterday.

The headset issue seems to do more with the POS compression sleeve in my carbon steerer than anything else.

Happy to report that there is no ovalization going on....so I was just being a paranoid fool.

Once I install the replacement compression plug and can preload the hs properly...I'll be golden.

Now that I'm running my first carbon steerer I can officially say that I'd much rather have the alloy and associated weight penalty.

[walsh]

So that was you - that's quite a bike. The paint scheme, in particular, is stunning. Hope you get your headset woes straightened out.

I was the guy picking up a set of Nitto bars and shooting my mouth off about the neccessity of torque wrenches.

[paulson]

So that was you - that's quite a bike. The paint scheme, in particular, is stunning. Hope you get your headset woes straightened out.

I was the guy picking up a set of Nitto bars and shooting my mouth off about the neccessity of torque wrenches.

Thanks....

yeah, I hear you on the torque wrench stuff. I've been a long time believer in the experience/feel factor but my engineer riding buddy has recently brainwashed me into believing that anti-seize and torque specs are to be used/obeyed at all times.