Fun with bull dozers

[bills]

Don't ever let the city tell you they care about these trails/woods or sustainability. I road Seminary today and last week and it seems that the city has been in there clearing fire roads with a bulldozer... there's no mistaking where they drove that thing.
They did more damage to the trails with that bulldozer than any number of mountain bikers could ever do.

[rmac]

yes - I saw that as well - hard to miss. They cleared out one fire road & created a clearing that hasn't been used (or clear) for about 10 years.

[dan_hudson]

Take pictures, lots of pictures. Include something in them for scale - person, backpack, bike (if its okay to be there), etc. Jot down some notes. Contact the folks from MAMBO who have the relationship with the city (Eric & Jeff) - they can use stuff like this when discussing access issues.

[riderx]

Yes, please do what Dan said. Also, take pictures from a bunch of different angles and if you are able to mark on a map where this is taking place it would be helpful too.

Remember, this property's primary purpose is a water source for Baltimore City so they may claim they are doing things in conjunction with that aspect - I'm not defending the destruction, just letting you know that will probably be what the excuse is. That does not mean that we can't use the impact they have caused on the land in our argument that MTB's cause minimum impact on the trails out there.

Thanks for the update.

[allroy]

Please follow Dan's suggestions for documentation and send to Pat Miller
md-advocacy@more-mtb.org

Thank you,
-Jason Stoner

[patrickgmiller]

Yes, please send my way and I'll make sure Eric Crawford gets it too.

[escatmore]

yes, yes, and yes. Dave Blum, Bob Compton and I are meeting with the city's managers next Thursday, it would be a fine opportunity to ask about it. hit me at ecraw4d at gmail dot com.

eric

[drewdane]

Take pictures, lots of pictures. Include something in them for scale - person, backpack, bike (if its okay to be there), etc. Jot down some notes. Contact the folks from MAMBO who have the relationship with the city (Eric & Jeff) - they can use stuff like this when discussing access issues.

OMG, MAMBO still exists?

[escatmore]

shush you.

yes, MAMBO still exists, but we're working on a big change so don't spread it around...

back to the subject at hand, I don't want to get into a shouting match over who's to blame for what damage. My approach is to stay as positive as possible. The city has been using this technique for eons, my guess is it's primary purpose is keeping the woods roads clear for emergency vehicle use. Is there a better way, maybe but the solution needs to come from the city with our guidance. If we go in saying you are wrong, we are right. They won't hear our points and they might smack us for being so confrontational. Remember, at Loch Raven, if you are on anything but a fireroad you are on an illegal trail. It doesn't matter what the reason is. We're working on changing the management policy but, thems the facts folks. From what I understand 'the trail was an old fire trail that over time had become impassable. They opened up that trail and made a few of the runoff pits' ( quoting a source familiar with the location ). My goal will be to get a better understanding of why this technique continues to be used and see if we can work out a less invasive way to do things. Dave, Bob and I will keep you posted.

eric

[bills]

I will bring my camera along when I go out there next... sometime before Thursday.

I don't want to get into a shouting match over who's to blame for what damage. My approach is to stay as positive as possible. The city has been using this technique for eons, my guess is it's primary purpose is keeping the woods roads clear for emergency vehicle use.

I understand what you're saying Eric... I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it. They haven't come in to clear these fire roads in more than 2 years. Then they come in (like RMAC said) and clear out half a fire road that wasn't touched in 10 years and had nothing blocking it! You could have driven a truck through there without making such a mess of it. Now there are huge swamp puddles everywhere... maybe we'll go back next summer and make some rolling dips to fix this too. sry

Just keeping you posted... I'll get the pics.

[rmac]

I've seen the damage, but as a regular user of LR I'm not in favor of making a big stink over heavy equipment clearing old fire roads. The city pretty much let's us do our thing & they come in a few times a year & clear different sections of fire rd. The method is brutal and they seem to look at it as purely clearing a fire road. They choose some pretty inopportune times (wet season) & maybe get a bit carried away. There is a high line already forming through the area I saw - stream crossing close to Providence & old fire rd headed up toward the bench. Photos are great if we get in a situation where the City wants to close trails (mid nineties) and we need to show that riders are not the culprits, or if we (Eric) have a good relationship and can discuss this openly with the city toward a better method of clearing rd. As Eric says, if you're off of one of the 4 or 5 designated fire rds or if it's after dark, you are riding illegally. I'd love to have legal, maintained & properly designed trails in LR, but until then, I'm not looking to start a turf war. Strictly my opinion - I only want what's best for me.

The fire rd in question is designated legal for riding as far as I know. If B-City ok's it - I can put in a days work down by that stream.

[bills]

I've seen the damage, but as a regular user of LR I'm not in favor of making a big stink over heavy equipment clearing old fire roads. The city pretty much let's us do our thing & they come in a few times a year & clear different sections of fire rd. The method is brutal and they seem to look at it as purely clearing a fire road. They choose some pretty inopportune times (wet season) & maybe get a bit carried away. There is a high line already forming through the area I saw - stream crossing close to Providence & old fire rd headed up toward the bench. Photos are great if we get in a situation where the City wants to close trails (mid nineties) and we need to show that riders are not the culprits, or if we (Eric) have a good relationship and can discuss this openly with the city toward a better method of clearing rd. As Eric says, if you're off of one of the 4 or 5 designated fire rds or if it's after dark, you are riding illegally. I'd love to have legal, maintained & properly designed trails in LR, but until then, I'm not looking to start a turf war. Strictly my opinion - I only want what's best for me.

Well said rmac!

I had hoped to get out yesterday to take pictures but couldn't get away. I will bring my camera along next time I go out, but it won't be before Thursday especially if we get rain. I guess anyone who's out there is welcome to take pictures. The majority of the bulldozer work was done on the main east/west fire rd and on an old north/south fire road which comes off the main fire rd, west of the first stream crossing if you enter from Providence.

[escatmore]

your update as promised, if not a little late ( sorry ):

Gene Scarpulla, Watershed Manager, seemed genuinely taken aback when asked about the recent clearing that's occurred. Luke Brackett, Watershed Ranger Supervisor, explained what I was talking about since neither Gene nor I had actually been to the site. I expressed our need to understand what the goals of the technique are and asked if there might be someway we could coordinate our efforts to mitigate the ugliness of it. Gene suggested some retraining is in order for Loch Raven's maintenance staff, indicating it's possible the technique may be a bit dated. I'll check with Gene and Luke again in a few weeks to see if any followup is necessary. Please let us know if it happens again.

eric

[rmac]

Thanks Eric. It's been too wet to ride Seminary so I'm not sure how that section is shaping up - wasn't too bad last time I was through.

Would the city ever consider letting us construct a bridge at the first stream crossing coming in from the Church lot? There's a ridable line there, but even walking that crossing is ugly. The hikers, fisherman, birders... should like a bridge
& it would be good to be part of the effort to build one. Although, it might be too large of a project for city crews to not be involved.

[escatmore]

Would the city ever consider letting us construct a bridge at the first stream crossing coming in from the Church lot?

Doubtful but we'll float the idea by them. Here's why, the woods road's main purpose is to allow for the passage of emergency vehicles. I know the crossing, in it's current state, would not be passable. The city is aware of it as well. but putting a bridge in, even off to the side, might be frowned upon simply because of this. Another issue is there are regulations about bridge building, anything over 12 feet, maybe it's 16 feet, needs to be approved by the epa or some such slow moving agency. Never mind that the city would want to be sure that the bridge isn't going to move in a storm event, which would require bridge abutments and a ton more work than laying a couple glorified pallets across the water.

Sorry to give such a negative response but bridges are hard beasts to get by any manager without a ton of work.

All that typed, the city is aware of the problem, along with at least one other crossing that's in bad shape over near the dam. I expect they will be addressing it in a satisifying way some time before the turn of the next millennium.

eric