When to Replace a Wheel?

[mtbmartyr]

I've broken two spokes so far on one wheel, and I've heard that once you've broken a spoke, the integrity of the wheel rapidly disintegrates. To what extent is that true?

How many spokes need to break before I should replace the wheel?

For instance, I have a personal rule of thumb that I'll patch a tube once, but once it goes flat a second time I discard it: I know that some people will continually repatch a tube, but I like to be reasonably sure of the source of the problem.

So what should the rule of thumb be for broken spokes and wheel replacement?

[jabberwocky]

It depends more on the rim then the number of spokes that have broken. As long as the rim remained relatively true when the spoke broke, it shouldn't have affected the long-term stability of the wheel. Its when the wheel gets really out of true that the rims integrity is compromised.

The way you know that its time to rebuild the wheel with a new rim and spokes is when it takes wildly varying spoke tensions to get the rim true. That says that the rim has gone bad and it will be difficult to keep that wheel true.

[BikerMiker]

Sounds like it's about time.

Even tension on the wheel will keep it alive. See you local wheel doctor for a prognosis.

mk

[rizetech]

Replace a wheel when the rim is dented or has a hop to it that can't be fixed with any reasonable adjustment to spoke tension. Rebuild a wheel when you have multiple spokes breaking (3 or more is my personal #) but the rim is still in reasonable shape - replacing a wheel costs a lot more than rebuilding, and replacing with a mediocre machine built wheel (that costs the same or less than rebuilding) guarantees you'll just break more spokes on a new wheel.

So, have the rim checked out now - if it's good, and you feel you want to have it rebuilt, go for it, or wait for another 1 or 2 spokes to break - if it's no good, get a new rim if you like your hubs, and have it built! Either way - having a handbuilt wheel is always the best option.

[BikerMiker]

You are forgetting the #1 reason spokes break: bad hub. If your spoke holes on the hub flanges allow the spoke to dance around, you'll brake spokes no matter how well-built or new the spokes/rim. This is the reason spokes break at the j-bend.

If you've ever built up a King hub, you'll notice the tolerances of the holes in the flange are almost disturbingly tight.

Spokes gain and lose tension as the wheels spins as you ride. The spokes above the hub are in tension, the spokes below the hub have less tension and the spokes constant get loose-tight-loose-tight as you roll down the trail. This is why proper tension and good hub flange tolerances are so important and usually why when your wheel starts going bad it's an indication that the whole shootin-match is about to come apart on you.

Good luck.

mk

[notrelatedtoted]

You are forgetting the #1 reason spokes break: bad hub. If your spoke holes on the hub flanges allow the spoke to dance around, you'll brake spokes no matter how well-built or new the spokes/rim. This is the reason spokes break at the j-bend.

Interesting. I have suspected this to be the case, but never seen it in writing.

[Dirt]

My fixie cross wheel lead a tortured life. It started as a 32-spoke wheel and began popping spokes when I started hopping logs at wakefield/accotink.

I replaced them and more-or-less trued it up. It was an old wheel... what did I care about it in the long run?

I continued riding it and would occasionally break spokes. I replaced the spokes when I got down below 29 or when there were two consecutive ones that broke.

Eventually they stopped breaking. I haven't ridden the wheel in about 6 months, but the last 4 months of its life was not eventful.

Ahhhh... I love strolls down memory lane. :D What were we talking about?

Oh yeah!

To finally answer your question, I'd replace the wheel as soon as you can. That is especially true if you can feel the imperfections or weakness in the wheel while you're riding.

[jabberwocky]

One of my urban/trials riding buddies wend through a period where he was going through spokes like crazy (mainly from under-rotating 180s). I witnessed him pop like 3 or 4 spokes in an hour of riding. This was on a Mavic wheelset (so it used straight-pull spokes). He carried a spoke wrench and a bag of spokes and just threaded a new one in when he broke one.

He eventually had the wheel rebuilt with a King hub, and as far as I know its still ticking along. He probably broke a few dozen spokes on that wheel and the rim was good to go after a rebuild. Granted, its a pretty heavy rim (Mavic 729). I can remember him having like 3 broken spokes and the wheel was still perfectly true. :) Those rims are bombproof.

[CountZero]

Mike Miller,

I think the reason your spokes are breaking is not as Mike K suggested, but more likely that your bike is equipped with very light cross country rims that are not durable in the context of your riding. You are a bad mofo, and no ultralight rims will last you more than a couple of years.

I think you've worn out your rim and spokes, and assuming that you like your hub it's simply time to rebuild your wheel with a rim that is stronger yet still reasonably light.

I suggest a Mavic 719/819 rim laced three-cross with double butted spokes.

Let your uncle Tommy help. Recall that the Pope, whose riding makes some metals spontaneously combust, is still on the wheel I built him four years ago.

Tommy O

[BikerMiker]

Yo Tommy!

I wasn't diagnosing the problem, I was just responding to another post.

He needs to have somebody look at it. There's nothing wrong with light wheels. I've been riding a set of 28h all season long with no issues including all the racing I've done.

Get the wheel checked out. It could be a variety of things. One problem with wheels is that when they go, there's not a lot you can do out on the trail, leaving you pretty stranded and unhappy.

mk

[Dirt]

I think it is user error. I've seen Mike ride the cranks off his bike before. :P

[BikerMiker]

Ok, I was going to respond with something REALLY mean but then I saw 'failed pig breeder' below Dirts name.

Does that mean you, um, how do I put this, 'have relations' with pigs?

I mostly feel bad for the pigs...

mk

[rizetech]

Yo Tommy!

I wasn't diagnosing the problem, I was just responding to another post.

He needs to have somebody look at it. There's nothing wrong with light wheels. I've been riding a set of 28h all season long with no issues including all the racing I've done.

Get the wheel checked out. It could be a variety of things. One problem with wheels is that when they go, there's not a lot you can do out on the trail, leaving you pretty stranded and unhappy.

mk

Yeah, that was an interesting reply - hadn't really considered the hub doing that.
Ordered some xm819s today, excited for that... but not excited to lace tubeless rims...

[BikerMiker]

If Mavic is still using those little collets to secure the nipple at the rim, be VERY CAREFUL. Those suckers are easy to cross-thread, strip, destroy, etc. I've had luck with Loc Tite on those suckers and would actually recommend the Red. Go big.

I'm not stoked about that aspect of Mavic wheels and it's one of the reasons I got turned off on tubeless a few years ago. Of course, I don't like the rims strips either but I don't see a way around the Mavic setup.

mk

[mark w]

Done right, the Mavic system is pain you feel once. I spent a long time fiddling with rim strips before going UST. I prefer blue loctite stick for threadlocking the Mavic "nipple clamps". Using the less common but recommended 16mmm nipples is also a big help.

[rizetech]

Done right, the Mavic system is pain you feel once. I spent a long time fiddling with rim strips before going UST. I prefer blue loctite stick for threadlocking the Mavic "nipple clamps". Using the less common but recommended 16mmm nipples is also a big help.

That was the plan! I figure I just won't mess up.
Unfortunately, no one makes colored long nipples. :mad:
that's alright, the black-on-black is more of my gangster style.