Laurel Hill Update

[dan_hudson]

Recent talk of Fountainhead and the CCT provide a great opportunity to give a Laurel Hill update.

IMBA's Fall 2008 visit to Laurel Hill is over half done and we've made great progress. The "Apple Orchard Loop" (area L in Laurel Hill-speak), the better part of two miles, is complete. A significant portion of "Workhouse Hills" (areas J & K, the old prison dairy) is on the ground and we're on track to complete the remaining segments by Thanksgiving - a total of over 6 miles.

In addition to these "core trails", this phase of Laurel Hill includes two short "bike-focused" loops, each approx 1/2 mile in length. Each loop has a very distinctive feel and we hope will appeal to a wide variety of MTB enthusiasts. "Power Station" (adjacent to the county co-generation plant - aka the trash incinerator) is pretty much done. "Slaughterhouse" (don't ask) is sketched in but awaits some additional tweaks.

A few folks have requested/hoped that the new Laurel Hill trails provide an experience closer to the Fountainhead status-quo. Sad to say this just isn't possible. First, as you may notice, the terrain along Lorton & Furnace Roads is mellow to say the least. And there is little forest available to host trails - much of the new network is in the meadows. In addition to these considerations is the eventuality of a large stable operation at the old prison dairy. To make a long story short, the core trails at Laurel Hill are 3-ish foot wide with a rock base, similar to trails in the Wakefield powerlines. We hope one advantage of this approach is the new trails should be much more impervious to poor weather and/or winter freeze-thaw.

http://www.more-mtb.org/galleries/gal_imgs/1/0/3/lh-1.jpg

http://www.more-mtb.org/galleries/gal_imgs/1/0/3/lh-2.jpg

While Laurel Hill will not offer Fountainhead-like fall line alignments, the bike-focused loops should provide at least a few riders with the experiences they're looking for in the close-in burbs. For example, here's Ed Sutton (Trail Dynamics) flow checking a rollable step-up on PowerStation.

http://www.more-mtb.org/galleries/gal_imgs/1/0/3/lh-3.jpg

Official opening of the new trails is TBD. If curiosity gets the best of anyone, I cannot more strongly encourage folks to stay on the official trails! There is a significant amount of nasty garbage around the property, large/deep holes, etc. There literally is a 8-foot tall ball of vine-wrapped razorwire right next to one of the new segments. Even on the trail, folks should pay close attention for any chunks of metal, glass, barbed-wire we may have missed.

Laurel Hill never fails to surprise!

http://www.more-mtb.org/galleries/gal_imgs/1/0/3/lh-4.jpg

[Dirt]

Cool news Dan. Thanks.

On the way home from FH a month ago, a few of us stopped in and rode the short loop that has been there for a while. It was really fun, though not long enough to be a destination of its own.

I don't know the Laurel Hill map and area very well. I'm guessing that the trails that you just described will link up with the loop that is already there?

Thank you again for your work and for reporting on it.

Pete

[tuba_transport]

A few folks have requested/hoped that the new Laurel Hill trails provide an experience closer to the Fountainhead status-quo. Sad to say this just isn't possible.

I rode there with Dirt a while back and it is obvious that it ain't Fountainhead in topography. It might be in the general Lorton area, but Fountainhead's hills are different.

The trails that we did ride at Laurel Hill were awesome if too short. They flowed well and the woods there are easy on the eye. To me it had more of a Shaeffer feel than a Wakefield feel. There is a lot of property there with a lot of potential.

I don't think anyone has a strong opinion which direction to take a design there because it is essentially a clean slate with little rider history.

If new stuff ends up as nice as the stuff which is already there then it will become a hotspot after more miles are added. It was a lot of fun and had its own unique character.

[soreback]

great!!! i ride the current laurel hills trail like 3-4 times a week since its so close and convenient to home after work. looking forward to seeing the new trails. and i (and my knees and back) am glad its not more fountainhead like. Sure hope they do connect up with the current trail.

[DownHillDan]

How many miles long will the trail be when its done?

[eloach]

1- How much horse traffic has there been/will there be (a guess)? Since the stable is to be adjacent, will there be a feeling that the horse traffic is the main purpose of the trail?

2 - It looks like a fun cross bike trail. Is that just the pictures, or would 35 cross tires be fine there? It might be really nice to run the cross bike down there from WF and then do a loop or two.

3 - What is the potential for hiker/runner traffic in the area? Have you seen many of either as you are building?

Thanks so much for the update. I think we knew it wouldn't be FH. Any additional trail in the county is most welcome. Thanks for the work!

[Squirrel Girl]

Oh, man!

Yesterday I went to Giles Run and did a few extree miles on the CCT because GR is so short. Hadn't been there in about a year. I looked for the new trail stuff, but didn't know where it was. It is not obviously near the GR trail.

I saw a huge pack of dog walkers with unleashed dogs. Other than me slowing way down and worrying if I'd be bitten (like I was in Santa Barbara), we had a friendly, crossing of paths. Later I saw another guy with an unleashed dog. And there were some disc golfers hunting down their discs! Some had LEDs in their disc (as I finished at disc).

Man, Randy, are ya out there? The CCT needs some signage!!!!

[soreback]

i dont think ive seen a dog that has acutally been leashed there yet, all that ive encountered have been unleashed. most of the walkers ive encountered with dogs there are pretty nice but a few give dirty looks as if having to actually control their pet and comply with fairfax county regs is cramping their style. i am a dog owner myself so i dont have anything against dogs.

pretty much all this spring summer and fall, ive hardly ever ran across another biker. but in the last 4-6 weeks ive seen more bikers. on the GR trail, there are more than a few blind spots that are a a lil iffy when two bikers are coming opposite directions and meet.

[Squirrel Girl]

I'm much more of a cat person than a dog person. But I don't dislike dogs. I think if I were a dog, I'd want to be off leash, too. I wish the dogs that do go off-leash were under voice control. But other than the frickin' yappy one that bit me, I don't find it all that big of a deal.

I'll save my ranting and raving for horse poop! (just kidding!--that doesn't bother me, either, but it sure sets off some people!)

[sourceofdenial]

Eloach, I've been riding my cross bike there and its more than fine. It makes for a great ride running hot laps around it since it is so empty. The only problem I ever have is sometimes when I ride close to dusk and am coming out of the woods as it gets dark I get followed around by the little safety patrol guy to make sure I'm not up to no good. Mildly irritating.

Anyone else in FFX Station want to ride there anytime soon?

[toonces]

Here is a link to the Laurel Hill Park Overview map from the Fairfax County web site so you can relate to the lettered sections Dan refers to.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/laurelhill/overview.htm

I ran into Dan while riding and exploring out there a few weeks ago and he said the 2-mile Apple Orchard trail (north part of section L) was essentially done so I rode it . It's as Dan's pictures show, except for the Power Station pic. Partially wooded but mostly meadow. At that time we were still in the drought and the rock base was pretty sketchy so it was slow going, which is normal for me anyways. It should be settled in now with the recent rains. There are plenty of grade changes and curves so it's not boring, but it's not single track. Oh, and Homer was still in hiding. :D

There won't be a direct connection from the Giles Run Trail (section H) and the new trails as they are on opposite sides of Lorton Rd. You will, however be able to connect to the new trails from the CCT after it crosses Lorton Rd around section J. I would guess this will be the last part completed to keep people from riding on trials that are under construction with heavy machinery.

If you are riding the Giles Run Trail you can see the new section if you venture up to the overlook on the Central Green loop (section G) and look across Lorton Rd. Beware though that under the grass there are chunks of briers that were cleared to create the trail last year and they are still capable of creating thorn flats. :eek:

[dan_hudson]

As Neal shared and the county map shows, the new trails are not contiguous with the Giles Run parcel. But they are connected via the CCT once you cross Lorton Road (not yet - we will make the connections toward the end of the build process).

Distance of the 2008 additions is on the order of 6 miles. Add in last year's work and some CCT mileage and you're close to 10 for a comprehensive visit.

Riding the new stuff with CX-width tires? While likely ideal in the long run (MTB-focused sections excepted) probably not the best choice until the trail gets compacted and burned in (next Spring?).

Horse use? Can't we all just get along? Seriously, while there is sure to be more equestrian use here than typical, remember Schaeffer has a similar stable operation at its core. While the new LH trails promise to be fast, they also have pretty good sightlines to minimize surprises.

Homer? A humorous surprise discovered during construction. Will be re-placed along the trail in an appropriate spot before we wrap up.

[soreback]

I'll save my ranting and raving for horse poop! (just kidding!--that doesn't bother me, either, but it sure sets off some people!)

saw some of that last week too on the Giles Run trail.

[sourceofdenial]

I'm a little confused on how to get to the new trails--if I'm at the prison parking lot(where the disc golf field is) how do I get to the new trails?

[tuba_transport]

I'm a little confused on how to get to the new trails--if I'm at the prison parking lot(where the disc golf field is) how do I get to the new trails?

There is a map posted next to the road next to the big parking lot. The trails start at the beck left side of the parking lot. They are only a mile or two long right now though so ride it on your way out to or back from Fountainhead or it will be a short riding day. :)

[Squirrel Girl]

There is a map posted next to the road next to the big parking lot. The trails start at the beck left side of the parking lot. They are only a mile or two long right now though so ride it on your way out to or back from Fountainhead or it will be a short riding day. :)

That was a typo--he meant back left side. There's a bark mulched area with some object (was it a slide or a sculpture?) in the middle. The trail goes through the fence to the left of it.

You can ride along the CCT to get some extra miles in without packing the bike back up and going somewhere else. No, not a lot of "mountain" biking, but it is less driving and stopping, etc.

[dan_hudson]

I'm a little confused on how to get to the new trails--if I'm at the prison parking lot(where the disc golf field is) how do I get to the new trails?

Head south on the CCT, go under the barrel-bridge, and cross Lorton Road. As of Thursday there are two connections to the most recently added trails on the left side.

Please avoid them this wknd. With all the rain, trail consistency resembles baby-poo. If the weather holds, I'll try to lead an introduction ride next wknd (11/22 or 23).

[mtbmore]

If the weather holds, I'll try to lead an introduction ride next wknd (11/22 or 23).

Can you do it on the 22nd so I can ride as well. I have the CF ride on Sunday.

Scud

[soreback]

Anyone else in FFX Station want to ride there anytime soon?

im in fairfax station and go there quite regularily but im slowwww.. riding with me is like riding by yourself,

[sourceofdenial]

im in fairfax station and go there quite regularily but im slowwww.. riding with me is like riding by yourself,

Sore back to blame?

[kn0bby8]

There is a map posted next to the road next to the big parking lot. The trails start at the beck left side of the parking lot. They are only a mile or two long right now though so ride it on your way out to or back from Fountainhead or it will be a short riding day. :)

As in ride there from FH or load the bike back on the rack and drive there than go ride an extra mile or two?

[MyOtherBrotherL]

As in ride there from FH or load the bike back on the rack and drive there than go ride an extra mile or two?

I'm assuming the latter.

There is no legal off-road way from FH to LH. Although technically there is a horse trail along most of Henderson and Bike trail along 123. Neither is fun on Knobby tires. There used to be some Power Line trails that made the route semi fun but most of it is gone (houses) and a big section is horses only. The Port Charlotte trails are also Horses only.

The road ride South down Hampton to 123 is also ugly on an MTB too.

[Jeepnut22]

Kinda new to this site. Looking to expand what I have ridden beyond Wakefield/Accotink and Fountain Head. I may be able to join a 22nd ride if there is room.

Any requirements to join a ride? I too am slow. Some injuries have killed my stamina this Fall and I have not gotten out much as a result. Love to try some new trails.

[Jackson]

Kinda new to this site. Looking to expand what I have ridden beyond Wakefield/Accotink and Fountain Head. I may be able to join a 22nd ride if there is room.

Any requirements to join a ride? I too am slow. Some injuries have killed my stamina this Fall and I have not gotten out much as a result. Love to try some new trails.

If it's a club ride, the ride leader will ask all riders to sign a liability waiver. But non-members are welcome on rides, too.

But, we encourage you to join and be an active participant in the club. The club is much, much more than just a website.

[soreback]

sore back, sore shoulder, sore knee... even tho i was never a speed demon even when younger/healthier.

Sore back to blame?

[TBLGirl]

Dan took about 6 of us on a tour of the new trails at Laurel Hill. IMBA TS has been very busy this last month or so! The new trails have something for everyone. It reminded me of Rosaryville but in open fields. Lots of fast swoopy sections and some sharp turns, that if you don't make you'll go head first into some briars. The mountain bike specific areas are great single track with some very cool berms and places to catch some air. And there is even a little "playground area" behind the old slaughter house that I definitely need to spend some more time on. We rode for about 2 hours - I think all total there are about 10 miles of trails. You need to piece them together a little bit but once you get to know where are you could probably peice together a nice long ride. Dan mentioned they hope to have a map out soon.

Thank you Dan, Rich, and all of the IMBA folks :thumbsup:And Dan thanks for the tour - I am looking forward to riding my new local trail system a lot this winter.

[eloach]

We ended up with 13 miles on the GPS. When I get a chance I will try to up load it on the site with markings for the MTB specific areas. A fun place to ride for all levels. Miles of cross bike ready stuff and then in the MTB specific areas I would love to have had a suspension fork in the front, so, good fun for all.

The way it loops about and the fact there is a playground on site makes it very kid friendly. A great place to take your kids to teach them to MTB or just have fun.

Thanks Dan for a nice trail and a nice ride today.

For those looking for some miles, I think you can connect down from WF/Accotink.

[eloach]

Here are two files.

A GPX renamed ".zip" (just change the extension and load it via your Garmin software).

And a JPG. Sorry about the JPG quality, but upload limit is 100K.

The two MTB areas are those near the bottom of the JPG where the path gets very "squiggly". The one on the RIGHT in the "Power Station". The one to the left is the "Slaughter House".

[soreback]

in previous posts, i believe some of the new areas were referred to as the "apple orchard" and the "dairy" area, are those these areas? i havent been to the new areas yet.


Here are two files.
The two MTB areas are those near the bottom of the JPG where the path gets very "squiggly". The one on the RIGHT in the "Power Station". The one to the left is the "Slaughter House".

[crashmore]

Here are two files.

A GPX renamed ".zip" (just change the extension and load it via your Garmin software).



FYI You can upload gpx files now. No need to rename them first.

[crashmore]

Here are two files.

A GPX renamed ".zip" (just change the extension and load it via your Garmin software).



FYI You can upload gpx files now. No need to rename them first.
I have also updated the file sizes for members to 750k. Web only users will remain unchanged.

[tsunayoshi]

Wow, that's quite a lot of trail in there. (referencing eloach's jpeg attachment).

[sourceofdenial]

I rode yesterday afternoon on my cross bike--great fun. Even saw a group ride out there. Looks to be the perfect midweek alternative to wakefield.

[eloach]

FYI You can upload gpx files now. No need to rename them first.
I have also updated the file sizes for members to 750k. Web only users will remain unchanged.

Thanks. That will save some time in posting rides up.

[eloach]

in previous posts, i believe some of the new areas were referred to as the "apple orchard" and the "dairy" area, are those these areas? i havent been to the new areas yet.

Those are the more open areas. The two areas where the lines get tighter are the MTB specific areas. We did ride those trails. I just have no idea exactly which trail is which except for the MTB specific areas. Those both had distinct characteristics and were right next to the things they are "named" for.

[dan_hudson]

Apple Orchard (area L) is across Furnace Road from the dairy area. While open like the rest of the trails, the formal connector has not yet been built due to some issues parks needs to work out with other arms of county govt (road crossing issues, etc). Note there is no way (today or in the future) to access these trails by crossing Lorton Rd. Apple Orchard includes the traces in the southeast portion of Eric's map.

The area around the old dairy proper is known as Workhouse Hills (areas J & K) in Laurel Hill Park-speak. As Eric points out in his description, the two MTB-focused segments are a part of Workhouse Hills. PowerStation is adjacent to the co-generation facility. Slaughterhouse is behind the old farm facility sharing the trail's name.

Hope this helps --Dan

[vamodeo]

Anyone want to ride there on Turkey Day morning? I have never been.

Vince

[crashmore]

FYI Dan has passed along a map from the park that we are allowed to share. I created a quick where to ride post for laurel hill and attached both that map and the gps data from this thread. Hope this helps.

http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13772

[soreback]

FYI Dan has passed along a map from the park that we are allowed to share. I created a quick where to ride post for laurel hill and attached both that map and the gps data from this thread. Hope this helps.

http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13772

thanks for the great map. cant wait to explore it when able.

[Jackson]

The Laurel Hill trail description has been updated. You can find it here (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13772) or:

http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13772

[camp]

Wow, this looks like a really cool place to ride. I wish I lived there now to enjoy it. You're lucky that FCPA and Fairfax turned that large tract into something other than townhouses, and that mountain bikers were at the table and got some interesting features and trail to ride. I mean, if all new county parks nationwide came with log rides and pump tracks, alongside tennis courts and soccer fields, we'd be in fine shape.

Nice work by Dan, Anne, IMBA and all involved.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I joined a few TBL people on a Thanksgiving morning ride at LH and did two loops (I think it was the Work House and Giles run loops). None of us brought maps though since we thought that we would have a guide to give us a tour but managed OK.

The trail was very flowy and not too hilly. It seems to be the perfect trail to bring a hardtail or even a full rigid as it's just so smooth. At speed, LH can be quite tech but for a casual ride it is very easy. Those bermed turns are great! A few of those turns can catch you off guard and will send you off course if you're not paying close attention. LH's flow is very reminiscent of Rosaryville, a great alternative to FH's root and rock-fest.

I feel a bit guilty as I live 5 mins away and did not get a chance to make it out to one of the build days here. I will be showing up for future trail workdays, though! Great job and a big thank you to all involved in bringing this trail network to fruition. I hope to check out more of the trail (and fun-features described) once I'm finished with finals. This will be a fun winter!

[sturner]

Tom and I went out on Saturday and shot a little video:

http://www.vimeo.com/2386053

Check it out.

[Jackson]

Scott did a great job editing that video. The skills area was too wet to ride both rides on Friday and Saturday. But is a little pump track action, some rocky off-camber banked turns, and a log skinny. Good stuff.

Homer got vandalized sometime Friday night. Instead of a bizarre but welcome landmark, now all there is a magnet for graffiti. I think the park and/or its contractors will probably have to take it out.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Homer got vandalized sometime Friday night. Instead of a bizarre but welcome landmark, now all there is a magnet for graffiti. I think the park and/or it's contractors will probably have to take it out.

D'oh! I was hoping to run into a perfectly clean and unviolated Homer next time I head out that way, too. Ah well. Thanks for the cool vid Scott.

[sourceofdenial]

I've ridden laurel hill I think 5 out of the last 7 days(can ride there right out my door) and I really enjoy the park. Somehow I've managed to miss the Apple Orchard and Slaughterhouse section, so I'll have to check it out sometime this week. Strange, I rode there Saturday and didnt even notice the violated homer.

It's nice in that while the trails are easy enough for beginners, they take on a lot more character with speed. I can go ride there with my girlfriend and then go back and pin it for an hour and it feels completely different.

I think I saw someone from this board out there riding on Saturday with his daughter--had a DeSalvo with Blacksheep fork.

[joep]

I think I saw someone from this board out there riding on Saturday with his daughter--had a DeSalvo with Blacksheep fork.

That would be me. Nice to meet you, and thanks for helping us out with directions.

[sourceofdenial]

That would be me. Nice to meet you, and thanks for helping us out with directions.

I was going to say something but sometimes the 'Hey, do I know you from the internet'? question gets weird. Glad you guys had a good time.

If you live nearby or want to ride it again let me know.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Any one try it out?

[Jackson]

Here is Dan Hudson (trail builder) addressing this exact question:

The new trails at Laurel Hill are still in that early more-fragile stage. While they should be some of the hardiest around by this time next year, with all the rain we had on Sunday, things could still be nasty on Tues. Please refrain if the going gets bad. With its shaded northern exposure, Slaughterhouse will probably be the soft/slick-est trail.

Thanks --Dan

[sourceofdenial]

Any one try it out?

It was fine this morning, but was still below freezing. The deer were leaving deeper tracks in the earth than me.

Be careful of the deer, I don't think the big buck that has a little harem over there approves of cyclists. I've seen him every time I'm there, and he now stomps his feet and doesnt move when I go by. I was half expecting to get charged.

[sturner]

That would be me. Nice to meet you, and thanks for helping us out with directions.


Joe,

Does little p ride too? I know Laurie would love to ride with her. We should schedule a daddy daughter ride.

Scott

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Thanks for the info. Looks like I won't be riding any time soon anyways. I've seen that buck the one time I did head out to LH, almost ran into someone who was riding ahead of me. Very big deer, with sharp antlers.

[ChrisJ]

Think the trails would be ok to ride Sat/Sunday? I may ride from the house to there and back get a nice loop. Gambrill rd to Pohick to Silverbrook to 123 to Furance to LH :D

[soreback]

Be careful of the deer, I don't think the big buck that has a little harem over there approves of cyclists. I've seen him every time I'm there, and he now stomps his feet and doesnt move when I go by. I was half expecting to get charged.

what sections do u see him on the most? i came across one on the early part of the Giles Run trail that wouldnt move out of the middle of the trail when i approached. He didnt looked spooked, he looked defiant. I was the one that cut across thru the woods to get by.

[sourceofdenial]

what sections do u see him on the most? i came across one on the early part of the Giles Run trail that wouldnt move out of the middle of the trail when i approached. He didnt looked spooked, he looked defiant. I was the one that cut across thru the woods to get by.

I saw them initially by the dairy farm access road, but I think they then crossed over to the apple orchard section, and I saw about 15 of them on that side. They kept leaping out of the bushes when I would come around a corner over there. I was basically just pushing them around the whole loop.

I seem to have lots of close calls with deer, both on the mountain bike and road bike. It's scarier on the road bike though.

Chris, if they were good today, and it doesn't rain for the rest of the week, chances are they will be good on Saturday.

[joep]

Joe,

Does little p ride too? I know Laurie would love to ride with her. We should schedule a daddy daughter ride.

Scott

Scott,

Little p had a blast out there and wants to go back. It's a great trail to take kids on. I'm free for the weekend on the 13th or 14th. If you're ok with that we should do a ride. Any other daddy-daughter or mommy-daughter teams out there?

[mtbmore]

Scott,

Little p had a blast out there and wants to go back. It's a great trail to take kids on. I'm free for the weekend on the 13th or 14th. If you're ok with that we should do a ride. Any other daddy-daughter or mommy-daughter teams out there?

How about grandfather grand daughter team?

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I just rode bits of LH today. The figure 8 by the slaughter house is still wet, didn't bother with that. But once I got to the Power Station Loop....


...Laurel Hill, I think I love you. <3 :D



Rosy's got the Rosaryvillians, I say there should be Laurel Hill Hooligans or Laurel Hillbillies. What say ye, masses?

[joep]

How about grandfather grand daughter team?

Just be able to keep up old man. ;)

[sourceofdenial]

12/25/08: Completely dry--almost dusty in a few sections. Did not ride the Slaughterhouse loop though.

[Jackson]

12/25/08: Completely dry--almost dusty in a few sections. Did not ride the Slaughterhouse loop though.

The skills section or the whole loop?

[sourceofdenial]

Is the skills section where homer used to be? Dry, although some of the jumps felt like quicksand for some reason.

[Crouse]

The skills section was a little soft today.

I rode the trails for the first time yesterday and then again today.
They are a lot of fun. Very single speed friendly. Thanks for all the work in building these trails. Living in this side of the county just got a lot better.

What are the rules for night riding?

[Jackson]

Is the skills section where homer used to be? Dry, although some of the jumps felt like quicksand for some reason.

Specfically, this is the skills section:

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9782/img0296bt4.th.jpg (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/9782/img0296bt4.jpg)

Although it is really the mini-skills section. The figure 8 with the skinny and mini-rock gardens. It's at the bottom of the hill so it will tend to be softer than the higher trails.

[Jackson]

....although some of the jumps felt like quicksand for some reason.

Dan Hudson said that it will take a while for a lot of the trail to get settled. I'm not sure what the primary makeup of the soil is, but it could be just about anything given the surroundings. (Old inmate farms, prison, landfills, etc.)

[sourceofdenial]

Ah ok--I didn't venture down to the skills section.

Definitely been a bunch of folks riding when its muddy/unfrozen though; Bunch of tire ruts developing in areas.

[mtbmore]

What are the rules for night riding?

As of now the park closes at dark, MORE is working with FCPA to establish night riding there but we have not yet completed the deal.

Scud

[Crouse]

Thanks Scud