New Bike Purchase

[ODG]

First off, seeing how this is my first post I'd like to say...Hello! This a great site you have going here.

I'm looking to purchase a new bike in the next couple weeks and of course I've been doing lot's research but I'd also like to get some opinions from the local folks since we are all basically riding the same terrain.

Up until about 3.5 years ago I was an avid biker but after falling ill with Lyme(freaking ticks!) I've had a hard time getting back into the saddle. This summer I'm determined to get back in the saddle and trade my 8yr old hardtail in for a shiny new DS bike. The only problem is that there are so many different types of setups! I'm mainly up in the air between XC, All-Mountain and Freeride. Depending on which manufacturer you look at the lines between XC, All-Mountain and Freeride overlap and become blurred.

Essentially I'm an XC rider but I've had a hard time keeping my current XC hardtail bike in working order due to various component failures so I'm considering a bike that is a little more towards the Freeride spectrum. My budget is slightly under $2,000 and so far I've had my eye on the Kona Dawg, Kona Coiler and the Cannondale Prophet 600 or 800. I don't want to buy something that is too flexy and can't take some punishment on the trails but then again I don't want to be hauling any more weight than I need to on the up hills. The Coiler has received tons of praise but it's pretty heavy and I'm afraid I'll end up regretting the purchase when I hit my first hill. The Dawg seems to be a bit more sensible but then again I've read quite a few reviews from people that ended up breaking components and replacing them with parts comparable to what's found on the Coiler. According to Cannondale and the few reviews I could find the Prophet is supposed to be the perfect All-Mountain bike. Light weight yet beefy and the ability to adjust the frame geometry depending on what type of riding you are doing. One thing I can't seem to get past is the goofy Lefty single shock they use. I know they have been using that design forever so I'm sure it works but the low functioning areas of my brain keep telling me that 2 is better than 1. :)

If any of you ride any the bikes mentioned I'd love to hear your experience and even if you don't ride any of the bikes and have some other nugget of wisdom you could throw my way please do.

Thanks in advance

Mike

[Dirt]

You might take a quick spin on a Gary Fisher Cake. I'm a big fan of the long top tube/short stem combo that he claims to have invented, though it really dates back to 1980s frames designed by Doug Bradburry before Answer Products purchased Manitou.

I'm 220 pounds and I share your initial skepticism about the left fork. I don't own one. I've only ridden them for 30 minute test rides. I can say that I didn't feel anything in the short bashes around that supported my initial reaction to the forks. Changing flats is silly easy with that setup.

I hope that helps a little. I don't mean to complicate things by suggesting other options. The Cake is just something that I felt very comfortable on while riding it recently.

Good luck. Welcome to the site.

Peter

[tsteele999]

If it doesn't stop raining I would suggest a road bike.

[markie]

Just a thought...

The trails round here seem well suited to hardtails!

Why not get another hardtail? If you ride XC what is the use of all that boing? I know of one person who climbs a fair bit slower on the prophet than a hardtail.

[jfoley]

sounds like you're in the market for a trail bike... this is the hot new category for mountain bikes... basically a 5-6" travel XC bike, maybe with slightly slacker angles to make it a bit more stable on downhills...

when i was in City Bikes (chevy chase shop) this weekend they had a prophet available for demo's. also specialized bumped the travel on the stumpjumper up to 5" and the enduro up to 6". both have gotten really good reviews... send me a private message if you're interested and i can get you in touch w/mike at City Bikes to see what they've got you can demo

[ODG]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I hadn't really considered a Gary Fisher because I remembered looking at them a number of years back and considering them to be highly overpriced. I browsed over to the website and the bikes and prices seem to be right on par. Looks like there is a local shop in Frederick called "WheelBase" that carries them so I'll be stopping by this weekend to see what they offer. The Cake 3.0 is along the lines of what I am looking for.

Even though I hung tough with my hardtail for years I've riden friends DS bikes and realized the benefits. I'm sure I'll be taking a hit on my hill climbing but these newer designs are really good at eliminating bounce while pedaling. Not to meantion I live out near Frederick so my local riding is going to be Gambrills and the Frederick County Watershed. A DS bike is well suited for those areas.

jfoley, you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what I am looking for. I'm going to demo a Prophet on my way home from work tomorrow. Thanks for the offer, depending on how my test ride goes tomorrow I might take you up on it.

[themonkeyman]

Like Peter mentioned I don't want to overcomplicate things, but have you looked at the Trek Liquid?

I did a demo on one at Fountainhead and it rocked. It was a blast, held all the lines very nicely, and you could really let it all hang out on the downhills. It climbed a lot better than I thought it would also. It seems to fit your bill quite well, as it comes with the perfect mix of both freeride and XC components; the heavier-duty stuff where you need it, and the lighter-weight XC stuff where it's not likely to get bashed.

I'd definitely look into one, as it sounds perfect for you.

If you don't like the liquid, I'd most certainly go with the Prophet. I've heard nothing but great things about it. And don't let the Lefty fork throw you, everyone who I've talked to who's ridden one said it's a lot of fun, and is actually much stiffer than a conventional fork. MountainBike Action magazine did a review of a bike with one and loved it and I quote them: "Half the fork is twice the fun..."

I hope this rant of mine has helped a bit--Graham

P.S. when you do get a new rig, you gotta tell us what you picked! ;)

[jfoley]

don't be so sure... on rocky trails rear suspension can help climbing by keeping your tires on the ground and you in the saddle and new shock designs do a good job of eliminating pedal-induced bob without sacrificing downhill performance... i've got a 4" travel bike with a platform shock and love how it climbs...

I'm sure I'll be taking a hit on my hill climbing but these newer designs are really good at eliminating bounce while pedaling. Not to meantion I live out near Frederick so my local riding is going to be Gambrills and the Frederick County Watershed. A DS bike is well suited for those areas.

[ODG]

I have looked at the Trek Liquid line but even the lowest model is priced out of my reach.

[riderx]

I've had a hard time keeping my current XC hardtail bike in working order due to various component failuresCome on, who's going to be the first to say it? I've been restraining myself...

:D

[ODG]

No need for restraint. What's on your mind?

[halfinch]

Come on, who's going to be the first to say it? I've been restraining myself...

:D


you're gonna suggest a three speeder eh?
run with it, shoulder it, and single it...

[drewdane]

No need for restraint. What's on your mind?
Ignore the zealots - they're always running around proselytizing :p

In regards to the Cake, I tried one out recently and found it entirely too squishy. It was like riding a marshmallow - or driving an American sedan. That's just my personal preference though, not a shortcoming of the bike in and of itself.

[Dirt]

Here's what riderx was hinting it.

http://myroadtrips.peterbeers.net/mbrt/Bike_Repair/Monkey/I_MG_2319.JPG

You can get a pretty dang nice single speed for $2000. ;) You won't have problems with component failures. I've had a stupid grin on my face on ever ride on the new bike.

I wasn't going to go there, but I just can't help it. This is the second funnest bike I've ridden as far back as I can remember (the first being the tandem).

Pete

[Dirt]

Ignore the zealots - they're always running around proselytizing :p

In regards to the Cake, I tried one out recently and found it entirely too squishy. It was like riding a marshmallow - or driving an American sedan. That's just my personal preference though, not a shortcoming of the bike in and of itself.

Good shock tuning can help that. It takes a little work setting up the shock. The test ride that I did was just like you described. Then the shop jock came out with a pump and did a few things. It smoothed it out a lot. I don't know what he did, but it worked for me.

Pete

[ODG]

I'm seriously considering converting my old hardtail into a single speed for tooling around but there is no way I'd be using it as my only ride. Pete, you even went as far as using a rigid fork. Nice! Is that your only bike? Reminds me of my first mountain bike a Mongoose Hilltopper. If I do decide to convert I'll be hitting you guys up for some advice once again.

[hophead]

you're gonna suggest a three speeder eh?
run with it, shoulder it, and single it...
And if you don't want to go SS...........
How about 2 speeds? :D

[riderx]

I'm seriously considering converting my old hardtail into a single speed for tooling around but there is no way I'd be using it as my only ride. They all say that in the beginning. ..

[ODG]

There are 2 things I never get involved in discussing on a message board, politics and religion. I'm starting for feel like this thread could be categorized in the latter topic. ;)

[hophead]

There are 2 things I never get involved in discussing on a message board, politics and religion. I'm starting for feel like this thread could be categorized in the latter topic. ;)
Resistance is futile.

[Dirt]

I'm seriously considering converting my old hardtail into a single speed for tooling around but there is no way I'd be using it as my only ride. Pete, you even went as far as using a rigid fork. Nice! Is that your only bike? Reminds me of my first mountain bike a Mongoose Hilltopper. If I do decide to convert I'll be hitting you guys up for some advice once again.

I've only ridden the geared bike 3 times in the last year. I've been on the SS the rest of the time.

I came to the interesting realization last night when cleaning the shop that I have 15 bikes.

Pete

[joep]

"In the beginning," he said... can I get an AMEN! Hallelujah reverendx, preach on!
(for a small sampling of the complete 5 volume sermon, go here (http://www.singlespeedoutlaw.com/issue2/ednote.shtml))

JoeP (the P is for Pzealot)

They all say that in the beginning. ..

[ODG]

I jokingly made that religion comment. I had no idea this was such a serious subject! :eek: Guess I've been out of the game for a little too long.

[saxman]

ODG -- I can definitely empathize with your plight about not being able to ride. I've been riding for nine years. Several times, my mountain bike season was cut short either due to injury, illness, or worse...career demands. Ironically, none of the injuries were ever mountain-bike related.

This is the year I'm determined to get back into the saddle consistently. My faithful Klein Pulse Comp has been beckoning to be ridden. So far, I've only been able to run the hiker-biker trails until the real trails dry up...but at least I'm out there again.

My bike is still in pretty good shape, so I can't help you with advice on a new bike, but I did want to wish you well in getting back into the saddle again.

[ODG]

Test rode the Prophet 800 this evening and I wasn't impressed. I'm not blaming Canondale though, I think it has more to do with me being so used to riding hardtails. I'm used to pushing off of the pedals to lift the bike on jumps and the suspension on this thing just gobbled up all the effort I put into trying to lift the bike. The sales guy said it's something you'll get used to but I'm not so sure. I also test rode the Coiler briefly but didn't have enough time to really play around with it. Until today I wasn't considering a hardtail but now that's changed. I just wish I could get some real trail time with one of these DS bikes to see if it's really for me.

SaxMan, thanks for the good wishes. Maybe we can hook up on a ride this spring and try to keep each other motivated. :)

[Dirt]

There is definitely a technique for riding a full suspension bike. It isn't like just hopping on a hardtail. If you're an out of saddle masher, you're going to bring out the worst in a full suspension bike.

You can do out of the saddle climbing on a full suspension bike. It helps if you've got a stable platform shock. You just have to have the technique.

Oddly enough, I found the technique for climbing out of the saddle on a very active suspension bike (ellsworth Truth) by riding my single speed. There are times where climbing on an SS you have to be extra smooth in order to put power down and not spin the rear wheel out. That is the same technique that helps you climb on a full suspension bike.

Talk to some folks at shops. See if they'll let you take a demo out for the day. Some shops let you do that.

I drove 4 hours to a shop in PA because they had 15 of the nicest suspension bikes ready for me to test ride on singletrack. That was three years ago. Talk to City Bikes, Bike Lane, Bike Doctor and see if they'll let you take out a demo bike for the afternoon.

Or better yet, just buy a fully rigid single speed and be done with it. That is where you'll be in two years anyways. ;)


Pete

PS: That last comment is for Drew's benefit.

[themonkeyman]

...that you say the Cake felt too soft. I found it to be just the opposite. Maybe it was a bad shock setup, but I found the ride to be harsh, and almost as if I were riding a hardtail :( :mad: . But that was probably due to a too-high pressure in the shock. Tha components were nice, and I liked the way it handled, but I really wanted the suspension to react more. I rode the cake after riding the liquid, and it was like night and day. The liquid was plush, yet not bouncy, and the cake was basically a little better than a rigid :eek: .

But don't let my ONE so-so experience sway you. I honestly do believe that it was a bad pressure, so if you can, go for the Cake, and don't forget the icing! ;)

--Graham

[mscard]

While I haven't gone to SS 100% of the time, I have found that the more complex my gearie gets the more I absolutely need the sanity check of my rigid SS. Since I bought a dual boinger gearie I spend way to much time during a ride thinking about how I might want to adjust the shock, fork, terralogic valve, headtube angle, wheel base, travel, chain ring options, etc. etc. Add to that the question of where I can shave w

On the SS only 1 thing is adjustable - do I run 33X17 or 33X19 )Well that and tire selection and I don't think I'll ever find a way to relieve my self of that growing obsession!) but when I ride I rarely think about anything related to the bike - just surviving the ride.

Build yourself a gearie for all day epics and an SS for everything else. Ride which ever floats your boat on a given day.

[drewdane]

Or better yet, just buy a fully rigid single speed and be done with it. That is where you'll be in two years anyways. ;)


Pete

PS: That last comment is for Drew's benefit.
Oh yeah? OH YEAH??? Well, you just, well... you...

Well, we'll see... :D

[martin]

Essentially I'm an XC rider but I've had a hard time keeping my current XC hardtail bike in working order due to various component failures so I'm considering a bike that is a little more towards the Freeride spectrum.

Mike,

I haven't really follwed the entire thread - so really don;t know what others have said, but based on my experience and judging by your comment above I would suggest you stay away from a DS bike...

If you're having trouble maintaining a hard tail, a DS bike can turn into a nightmare... There's just more stuff to maintain and keep track of - and more stuff to go wrong...

Although some of the trails in our region are well suited for a DS bike, a nice steel hard tail will serve you just as well (if not better) and you'll get much more enjoyment out of it...

Personally, unless you're doing some sick freeriding, you don;t need a DS bike.

I've had a variety f bikes over the years, and I have always made my way back to my custom hardtail, simply because it provides the best response, climbing and rides circles around any DS bike.

Find yourself a quality steel frame and fork and spec it out with top notch components - you won't be sorry...

My $.02

[markie]

I wasn't considering a hardtail but now that's changed.

Yea, get a hardtail a nice steel frame. The majority of riders I see around here, even at the Gambrills/Watershed are on hardtails. Just out of curiosity want to share how tall you are and how much you weigh.....?

[riderx]

Just out of curiosity want to share how tall you are and how much you weigh.....?This isn't a dating board. :eek: Besides, you're married...

[markie]

I knew I should of asked for a picture.....

Actually I wonder if really heavy or really light guys are as suited to suspension. As well, tall guys might well be better off on a 29er.

Do you have blue eyes? Do you like long walks in the country GSOH?

[ODG]

Mike,

Although some of the trails in our region are well suited for a DS bike, a nice steel hard tail will serve you just as well (if not better) and you'll get much more enjoyment out of it...



After yesterdays demo I'm thinking the same thing. Originally DS seemed like the logical progression for my next bike. Fully Rigid----->Front Suspension----->Dual Suspension. To me, the introduction of the front shock made a huge difference in the way I ride leading me to think that a rear shock would do the same. Now I'm realizing that DS bikes aren't necessarily higher up on the MTB evolutionary ladder.

Still, I'm planning on test riding a few more DS bikes to fully satisfy my curiosity.

I'm 6'1" 170lbs and Markie....I'm an Aquarius. ;)

[markie]

tall and skinny, just my type....

I have never done it myself, but I am sure some people would recommend a hardtail 29er for someone that tall.

[themonkeyman]

...Hudson Trail Outfitters has the '04 Cake 3 on sale for like $899.88, regularly $1395! I just got the flyer for the sale, which are only in effect at the Rockville and Fairfax locales, and starts friday. They only have 4 left, so hurry in if you want it.--Hope this helps--Graham

[markie]

I love 853...

How about something like this to appease the outlaw:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98083&item=7140827239&rd=1

[ODG]

Thanks but I'd never buy a bike from a guy who owns baby blue carpeting and simulated woodgrain furniture. Guess you singlespeeders like everything retro huh?

:D

[bikerRob]

... To me, the introduction of the front shock made a huge difference in the way I ride leading me to think that a rear shock would do the same. Now I'm realizing that DS bikes aren't necessarily higher up on the MTB evolutionary ladder....Still, I'm planning on test riding a few more DS bikes to fully satisfy my curiosity...

3/11/05 >> I'm going to have to agree with what Martin had to say. Nothing beats a good properly equipped hard tail for all around mountain use. If you're just looking to change the feel of your hardtail you might want to try a susp. seat post...( yeah, I know...here I go again..) really though, it will change the way you look at your hardtail. I use the "U.S.E." susp. seat post, it works great. For the $130 it was worth every penny. There's not a MTB venue in the greater Md./NVa. that requires anything more than a good hardtail (or soft tail). F/S is just overkill except for a few spots like Gambrill, the Fred. watershed and Eliz. Furnace.
That all said...I just went out and bought a F/S rig myself. I already realize that I'll probably not ride this bike too many places in Md. I wouldn't of bought it but the dealer made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Now I have a good back up bike for when my CC bike needs some work done on it or for when I do rides in the GWNF.

[jfoley]

ODG...

lots of opinions here, and that's all they are. ride the bike that you like... don't let other people make you feel inferior or less hardcore than someone who rides something else.

i've got a singlespeed and a steel hardtail. they're great bikes, but i know that they beat the heck out of my back if i ride them up at gambrill or the 'shed (and i'm faster on a dualie and more likely to clear rocky climbs). but that's just my opinon and my experience and in truth it only really matters to me.

test ride the bikes that you want to and pick the one that fits you best. now if we could just have a full blown test track next to every bike shop in town.

[mscard]

Joe's got the right message here.

Of course, one of each (rigid, hardtail & dual boinger) is always the best solution! :-) Now if I just get my busted Voodoo HT repaired and find room in the apt .......

[ODG]

That's right, it's sitting in my living room right now! I've gotta say thanks for all of the opinions, they really did help me out.

Wanna hear the story? Of course you do. Here it goes.

Today at lunch I managed to fit in a Cake 3.0 and Specialized FSR demo. It didn't take me long to realize a DS bike just isn't for me. After some long hard thinking and lots of web browsing/research I picked out 2 hardtail bikes I figured would best suit my wants and needs. After calling numerous bike shops within a 60 mile radius I found a shop that had one of my selections in stock. And better yet, it was a 2004 model which is basically identical to the 2005 model. The guy on the phone promised to give me a hell of a deal so I headed out right away. A bit later I arrived at the shop and test rode the bike but to my disappointment it just didn't feel right, I wasn't comfortable and the balance felt off. The shop spent a bit of time with me figuring out what the problem was and after making the necessary adjustments and swapping out the straight bars for a set of 2 inch risers the bike felt perfect and I decided to purchase it. Now here comes the best part of the entire story. I ended up getting the bike for about $500 less than I was expecting to pay! By this point in the story you're probably saying "get to the point fool, what did you buy?" but.... I'm going to leave you hanging until tomorrow when I can post a couple pictures. I will however say that it most definitely is not a singlespeed. ;)

[markie]

Ah, the antici.......... ...........pation

With the left over $500 are you going to buy us all beer?

[riderx]

At least tell us which shop gave you the smoking deal!

And you can bring that beer to the MORE party.... :D

[ODG]

http://users.adelphia.net/~mlkegley/kula.jpg

In case you aren't familiar with this bike here are the specs.


Frame tubing=Easton Ultralite Race
Fork=Marzocchi MX Comp w/ ETA 100mm
Headset=Aheadset STS
Crankarms=RaceFace Evolve XC
B/B=RaceFace SRX ISIS
Pedals=Shimano PD-M505 clipless
F/D=Shimano Deore LX
R/D=Shimano Deore XT
Shifters=Shimano Deore LX
Handlebar=Easton Aluminum Riser
Stem=Easton EA 50
Brakes=Hayes Hydraulic HFX-9 XC
Front hub=Shimano Disc Hub HB-525
Rear hub=Shimano Disc Hub FH-525
Tires=Nokian Boazobeana 26 x 1.9
Rims=Sun Mach IV


I bought the bike at Bike Peddlers in Severna Park, Maryland and the owner who was there at the time gave me the sweet deal. As for the beer, will a case of Olde English 800 40's do? ;)

[bikerRob]

...I bought the bike at Bike Peddlers in Severna Park, Maryland and the owner who was there at the time gave me the sweet deal. As for the beer, will a case of Olde English 800 40's do? ;)

3/12/05 >> It just so happens...this is the same dealer I bought my Kikapu from. I'm sure, like me, you got a great deal. I think we both were in the right place at the right time. The dealer is just about to get his new line in and needed to clear some floor space....lucky us. The bike you got looks great. I like the blue on blue and it's nicely equipped too. A quick word of warning...if you've never had Hyd. disc brakes before, don't squeeze the brake handles without the wheel being in place or you will have to adjust the caliper pads. Personally, I have little experience with hyd. disc brakes so I have stuff to learn yet. If you've already done this (like stupid me) you can push the pads back in place but unfortunatly the brake will probably not be perfectly centered. ( anyone with any suggestions on a good book for fixing disc brakes?...the Hayes web site was not very helpful)

[markie]

Nice!

It looks like a mean singletrack weapon. I'll be looking out for you.

[Dirt]

I think you'll have fun with it. It'll keep you entertained till you buy your first single speed. Then I'm sure you'll get a good price for it on ebay. ;)

But seriously.... GReat bike. It looks like your hard work really payed off. You got a great bike at a great price.

See you out on the trails.

Pete

[themonkeyman]

Sweet ride dude! :D :D :D

I love that paint job, looks fast standing still ;)

Enjoy that rad ride!--Graham

[drewdane]

I bought the bike at Bike Peddlers in Severna Park, Maryland and the owner who was there at the time gave me the sweet deal. As for the beer, will a case of Olde English 800 40's do? ;)
Nice! hard to go wrong with Kona!

As for the 40's, make it King Cobra and you've got a deal!

[jks9199]

Even though I'm a few days late, a few dollars short, and probably a few bricks shy of a full load -- I'm gonna offer my 1.5 cents. (Told ya, few dollars short!)

I ride a hardtail, for some personal and professional reasons. I haven't gone to a single-speed yet (but I'm starting to wonder...) I can usually handle most anything, if maybe a bit louder than the guys on full suspensions. (Don't know why Pete's usually even quieter on a single-speed... ) So I clank a bit... I like it, I have fun with it, and it suits me pretty well. Which I think is the bottom line. Find the bike that you like and which suits you and how you ride...

For those wondering...mine is a '03 Gary Fisher Big Sur, basically unmodified.

Jim

[Parrishdk]

Built a Frankenbike with a frame I found in the trash a few months back. It's a hoot to ride, at least on my commute. Looking forward to trying my luck on the trails.
It's a Diamondback Ztec, late 90s vintage, with a GT straight blade fork... Ugly, but fun!!!

[kev0153]

We broke that thing in yesterday at Wakefield. We got caught in that brief downpour and it turned the trail a little slick. I think first thing on the shopping list is new tires right Mike?

[ODG]

And break it in I did! Those tires are terrible! I believe I went down a total of 5 times in about an hour due to the lack of traction. I'll definitely be getting some new tires before I hit the trail again.