Sub-Compact car owners

[brcire]

I'm looking for a new car and downsizing from a Cherokee to something small.

I'm interested in the Honda Fit, Mazda 3, and the Toyota Matrix. If you own one and use it to haul bikes let me know. Do you run a roof rack or rear rack? How's it working for you? Etc. It will be the car that takes the bike to an from the trail as well as all the other things I need a car for.

Any other thoughts on those cars or something similar as an owner would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Eric

[ChrisJ]

I couldn't drive something that small no offense. But the Honda Fit doesn't look to bad for the price. They had some of the newer Suzukis up at Big Bear for the 24 Hours this year. You got some decent options for what you paid for. Our neighboor has a new Smart Car looks like a death box not cool at all.

I drive a Supercharged Grand Prix with a roof rack gets 30 on the highway and 20 around town. Don't have a long commute at all 10mins if that so gas really isn't an issue. And has plenty of passing power. I like the midsize/suv market myself.

[CRAIG2]

I don't have any of those - I like the looks of the Mazda 3, but I *think* the Matrix comes with an AWD option. I really like the handling of AWD, but that's just me. I'd toss in the Impreza into the mix, too.

[jabberwocky]

I run something somewhat similar (Subaru WRX).

For roof rack versus hitch: I personally run a roof rack because I didn't feel like mounting a hitch on my car. In retrospect, I wish I'd gone with the hitch. The advantages to the roof rack is they are easier to install (I don't think any of those cars will come with a hitch standard) and you don't have to worry about getting rear ended. The disadvantage is they hurt gas mileage quite a bit (probably 2-4 mpg with a bike on the roof for me) and you can still run the bike into low structures (garages and drive throughs). Obviously its harder to lift the bike onto the roof, which is more an issue with DH bikes because they are so heavy.

My only other thought would be to try for a hatchback/wagon if possible. I used to drive a sedan, but my WRX wagon is so much more useful and it was actually cheaper than the sedan version.

[CRAIG2]

Our neighboor has a new Smart Car looks like a death box not cool at all.




Amen to that. Those things looks like they'd go tumbling in a good crosswind. Sure, they're great for going to the office, but what else can it do? People are silly...

[CRAIG2]

My only other thought would be to try for a hatchback/wagon if possible. I used to drive a sedan, but my WRX wagon is so much more useful and it was actually cheaper than the sedan version.

Another good point. I LOVE wagons. Granted, they're not chick magnets, but I'll take the function any day.

The new WRX STI is pretty b*tchin', though. :D

[jabberwocky]

Our neighboor has a new Smart Car looks like a death box not cool at all. You know, those things actually had to pass crash testing and everything. It actually got top marks in front and side impact test from the IIHS. Theres a lot of safety engineering in them.

[brian_brox]

You know, those things actually had to pass crash testing and everything. It actually got top marks in front and side impact test from the IIHS. Theres a lot of safety engineering in them....top marks when compared to other vehicles in it's class - not an absolute measure of "safety". e.g. my Honda Pilot gets top marks, too. I'll take a Smart car in a game of chicken any day.

Watch the youtube videos on it. The thing doesn't have any metal to absorb energy. It bounces off of things and then rolls away.


[EDIT]
...to add some credibility to my post:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/05/iihs-on-the-sma.html

But IIHS president Adrian Lund stopped short of saying the Smart is safe.

"Among the smallest cars, the Smart engineers did their homework and designed a high level of safety into a small package," he said.

Even so, while small cars are safer than ever, Lund said, "the risk of death is higher in crashes of smaller, lighter models. All things being equal, bigger and heavier is better."

[jabberwocky]

...top marks when compared to other vehicles in it's class - not an absolute measure of "safety". e.g. my Honda Pilot gets top marks, too. I'll take a Smart car in a game of chicken any day.

Watch the youtube videos on it. The thing doesn't have any metal to absorb energy. It bounces off of things and then rolls away.Yes, I've seen them. It does have a small crumple zone, then a very strong passenger cage.

Is it as absolutely safe in a head on collision then a larger car? Of course not. But the whole "must have a bigger car"arms race people perpetuate in this country is just ridiculous. It was never intended as a long-distance car; its a daily commuter, and for that purpose its fine. Its probably safer in most collisions than 95% of the cars produced up to the mid 90s, many of which are still on the road.

Not to mention the fact that a small car like the SMART can stop and change direction a hell of a lot faster than a large car like a Pilot, meaning that you can avoid many accidents better.

[CRAIG2]

Watch the youtube videos on it. The thing doesn't have any metal to absorb energy. It bounces off of things and then rolls away.




Heheheheh... just got a visual of that (Pinball Wizard playing as soundtrack in my mind while visual was occurring)... ok, threadjack over. Sorry :D

[atlantis]

My wife's impreza wagon (Standard) is great, it just gets shitty mpg, unless you drive super gently, then it still maxes out at like 25 highway, and thats with no bikes/rack. Though the AWD is awesome.

The Mazda 3 was my wife's 2nd choice car. Great fun little car to drive even in its small engine model and it's zippier than heck. No AWD blows a bit but the 3 is a great car, unfortunetly Mazda knows how great they are and under produce slightly, one of the few cars over the last couple years to regularly sell above dealer. Jerks. I drove a rental for a week and am 6'2" and loved it. The auto/sport shifter is great so no clutch/shifting is fun.

The fit I haven't tried but doesn't look too bad.

The matrix does come with the AWD option but it does drop the mpg a bit.

Generally it costs you 2mpg avg at least for AWD vs FWD cars it seems.

I love my altima I generally avg 29mpg on my dc driving, with only some delays. On real hw driving I've hit 34.

[halfinch]

As an owner of a civic hatchback, i would recommend a honda. reliable, great mileage, fun car as a whole. downside - small engine which gets easily compromised with multiple passangers and gear.

i can stuff my 29er in back if i take the wheels off, but that's a pain so i'm using a roof rack. note that the smaller nonfactory roof racks may require an extra "foot" to stretch out the distance between the load bars.

i rented a mazda 3 for several weeks. me like, as they are fun with a 2.3L engine. a small loss in mileage, but nice.

No comment on the matrix, but would venture to say it would hold up well.

I test drove the nissan versa several times, and would consider that as an option. They usually price out better than the matrix or mazda 3.

I current lust after the new volvo c30. but i'm a sucker for volvo's, wagons, and hatchbacks.

on small cars, i like a roof rack system. the rear hitch can be a challenge to mount and there can be clearance issues depending upon the model and suspension.

[CRAIG2]

The C30 has great curb appeal. The C30 does not burn 87 octane (well, at least it's not recommended).

I also looked at the Mini briefly, when the Clubman came out. My Outback won out.

[markie]

I have a Mini Cooper S and it is a bundle of fun.

I do not believe in bike racks. I can fit a 29er inside if I drop the rear seats and remove the front wheel.

Its mileage isnt great. Only 30mpg on a good tank.

[silly_yak]

Don't laugh too loud. Mazda5. It has all of the Mazda3 underpinnings, you can get a manual, has seating for 6 in a pinch, gets decent mpg.

[fausto]

My wife's impreza wagon (Standard) is great, it just gets shitty mpg, unless you drive super gently, then it still maxes out at like 25 highway, and thats with no bikes/rack. Though the AWD is awesome.



not sure what year yours is, mine is an '08 and an auto. I've seen 27 on a 50 mile highway trip with a kayak on top. Going to work with no racks I've seen 31 if I'm really thinking about it.

The new mpg measurement is weird.

I have a T2 for hauling bikes, and Thule roof rack for the kayak - I suppose if I had to carry more bikes I could put them up there. The '08 Impreza has direct mount points for roof racks - with the appropriate thule mounts it's a pretty slick rack.

[BikerMiker]

I just bought a new car if Feb and went through this. I have a family so it's a bit different. My car is my only car but I usually ride to work...

We bought a loaded Mazda6 wagon. It needs 10hp more. Don't forget that Mazda is owned by Ford and there are some quirks. I just got out of a 97 Impreza Outback that was great. Great mileage, never left me stranded, drove REALLY well with that AWD, boxer engine and good suspension.

Look at the new Impreza wagons. Small but nice. I like the Mazda3 but it was too small. The MazdaSpeed3 is AMAZING. I drove one. REALLY nice for $23k. WRX killer, hands down. 280hp.

We are looking at a Mini for my wife soon. 37mpg in the non-'s' version is killer. You should look at that car. Fun to drive.

For what you listed, the Fit is the smallest. If you are driving A LOT of miles, just do that and deal. If you aren't driving a ton, go with a 3 or the Matrix. Little more fun to drive, little more attitude and a little more $$.

Let us know how you roll.

mike

[pinbuoy]

I just went from a Chevy Tahoe to a Toyota Corolla. OUCH! with the thought of not biking because I needed to get out of my Tahoe and I needed GAS MILEAGE and I'm not putting a rack on my new car, NOPE, not me. So after I bought the rack... ;-)

Anyway, I can fit a bike in the trunk with the front wheel off.
$15,300 and 36 mpg.

[silly_yak]

If you are interested in AWD, what about the Suzuki SX4? Read some pretty decent stuff about them.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I believe my car fits in dead center of all the cars you guys are mentioning. I've been driving an 08 Scion tC now for a year (bought brand new) and it's been pretty faultless. Lots of torque for an inline 4 (2.5 liters), I can definitely punch it and pass people with ease on the freeway, and if I'm driving normally (no cheapo-trailer-drafting tactics here) I get about 27mpg on the highway (I'm either on 95 or 7100).

It's got a hatchback so my bikes go in the back, I don't usually drive more than 1 other person around so the rear seats stay down. My only gripe is that the suspension can be considered soggy and the shifting isn't as crisp as it's closest competitor (the Civic). But for the price (it's a set price on new models, no need to haggle or deal with markups) it's a damn good bargain. Disc brakes, 17 alloy rims, low profile tires (I'd change these too), and semi-panoramic sunroof. IPOD and mp3 player compatible (two types of jacks) decent sound system and projector headlights (I ditched the halogen bulbs for a set of 6000K HIDs) which was a new feature on the 08 models.

BTW: HID mated to projector housing (fisheye lens) gives you the benefit of equal distribution of light without blinding the hell out of on-coming traffic. Night time driving is slightly improved and I don't have to feel quilty.

So main points:

Semi-sporty
Semi-gas efficient
Semi-roomy (trunk space)
Decent price point
Toyota quality
Good looking car from stock (I guess this is a matter of opinion--mine's black, black is hawt :))

[Snot-Rocket]

I'm looking for a new car and downsizing from a Cherokee to something small.

I'm interested in the Honda Fit, Mazda 3, and the Toyota Matrix. If you own one and use it to haul bikes let me know. Do you run a roof rack or rear rack? How's it working for you? Etc. It will be the car that takes the bike to an from the trail as well as all the other things I need a car for.

Any other thoughts on those cars or something similar as an owner would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Eric

I went through this same drill. I wanted to keep the off-road/adventuresque capabilities of my buff truck, but needed something w/ better gas mileage and more family practicality...the 09 Subaru Forester really rocks! I highly recommend it for it's all round utility and great price.

I once went to a sub-compact and it was just too drastic of a change for me- too small and lacked the versatility to cater to an outdoor enthusiast, plus suck in bad weather...I average about 24 mpg on a weekly basis commuting and can get up to 27 mpg on road drips if I drive conservatively...

Rah,

Tom

[crack monkey]

I currently drive a 1997 Miata. Great car. Tiny trunk is the biggest drawback (but will hold one set of clubs, in a lightweight carry bag). Rear hitch and rack for carrying two bikes. Deadnuts reliable, never broken, though I do keep up to date on all maintenance, even the major PITA stuff like timing belts and wheel bearings.

Small cars are great, but take some adjustment (I previously had a GMC Sierra). Hauling drywall requires a rental, or bribing friends who have trucks.

The rear seat-bottom in the Fit flips up, leaving a deep space behind the front seats that is good for storing a bicycle (sans front wheel). The previous generation Matrix would take a bike upright on a fork mount in the back, if you dropped the bike seat. Not sure if the Mazda3 can do that, but it's the largest of the three, so it probably will.

The Fit is the smallest and gets the best mileage. It's also the cheapest, IIRC. Good luck finding one - they don't last long at dealers (at least the 08s didn't).

The Fit doesn't have many options and sells for MSRP, or very close to it. The Matrix and Mazda3 can both be optioned out quite a bit more, and the price can approach and exceed $20k without too much trouble.

I'd love a MINI Cooper Clubman (not an S) if it weren't so painfully slow. The extra rear space makes the difference between commuter car and functional weekend vehicle (ie, can haul golf clubs, small Home Depot runs, and the rear seat is a bit more tolerable for my rapidly growing teenage son). The S versions are a bit pricey and I don't want a 200hp hot-hatch in the driveway with a son getting his permit in a a year.

As for the Smart, it'll fare better in an accident with a Cayonero than my Harley or my Bianchi, which see more commuting duty than my Miata. The trunk is large enough for a bare small-block Chevy engine AND a bag of groceries. And it gets better fuel economy than any other gasoline powered car on the market - it might even beat my Harley in city mileage. Everybody I know that owns one likes it, even one who does a fair bit of highway driving.

[liznotter]

I just got the S version of the Clubman in June and it is a GREAT car. I have three teen/pre-teen children and we all fit into it, along with the 80lb dog, assorted backpacks, sports bags, musical instruments, and three bikes on the top.

I looked at the Saab station wagon, the Outback, and the Volvo station wagon, but the Mini is just so CUTE and the gas mileage was better...I'm averaging 34 mpg over the life of the car so far. It is a little more expensive, but the Mini is saving me about $250 in gas a month over my decrepit 16 mpg Odyssey.

Crack Monkey is right, the non-S version was woefully underpowered (and I have to admit I love hitting the Sport button and turning my sweet little station wagon into a super-charged sports car.) My daughter is getting her permit next year too and there's no way in hell she's going to be driving this car! ; )

[halfinch]

If you are interested in AWD, what about the Suzuki SX4? Read some pretty decent stuff about them.

decent price, heavy for it's size with so so mpg. finish wise, decent looking with adequate interior. it's new, so relability and kinks may need to be addressed.

[markie]

I had a non S cooper and I thought it was a blast. I really enjoyed thrashing the hell out of it. I did not think it was underpowered. I thought it was perfect.

I upgraded to an automatic S because my wife could not learn to drive stick.

Another good thing about the Mini is right now it retains its money as well as any other car on the market (always rates top 5 in residuals)...

[Brizn]

I didn't think I'd ever own a vehicle that wasn't 4x4 or AWD. Then I realized I wasn't even using it enough to justify. I guess my point is: don't fool yourself into thinking you need more than you need.

A few wks ago, I almost broke 40 mpg in my Toyota Corolla.. and that's 87 octane with a hitch and a Saris Cycle-On.

[piperj]

Our neighboor has a new Smart Car

Anyone remember those little friction driven toy cars that you put the penny in the back to make them do wheelies? That's the picture I have in my head every time I think of a Smart Car with a hitch rack...

Oh yeah, that's the ticket!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2285/2253495094_84b9e7e386.jpg?v=0


I do not believe in bike racks. I can fit a 29er inside if I drop the rear seats and remove the front wheel.

I used to fit my '99 Fisher Hoo-Koo-E-Koo in the back seat of my '64 Corvair! Take off the front wheel, put down the passenger seat and back it in... ;)

[rizetech]

wow... this exploded. I can't read 3 pages while trying to watch TV...
buy a mazda3 hatch. If you can afford it, get the mazdaspeed3 - turbo is always better!
A year ago I went from a Toyota Tundra with a great v8 to a small Corolla - and for the last year, I've regretted not waiting for the right mazda3 to show up. Hands down my choice - looks, fun to drive, and seems practical. But, I haven't ever tried to fit a bike inside.

On the plus side, it would look really great with a roof rack!

If we're introducing outside cars - my personal pick other than the 3 would be a Saab 9-2x Aero wagon - it's a subaru wrx (shares engine, trans, chassis, STi suspension) with some minor physical upgrades and a nice saab interior. WIN!

And people think it's a saab so it's valued lower than a comparable WRX wagon.

[drevil]

I'm interested in this thread too. MabaGal and I were just at Toyota and Honda dealers today to check out small cars that were <$20k and could fit two bikes inside without too much disassembling, preferably upright with front wheel removed.

First thing we looked at was the Yaris. Too small and plainjane.

Then the Scion xD. Funky. Better, but still a little small in the back.

Then the Matrix. She liked. I thought it was OK.

Next up was the Element. We both really liked a lot, but not what we were looking for at the moment.

Finally, the Fit. Badass. I didn't get to drive it, but it's simply...cool :) Lots of space for such a small car! I was afraid if we took one for a spin I'd be ready to plunk down the cash. Anyone here own one and have anything bad to say about it?

[kevin29r]

I went through this same drill. I wanted to keep the off-road/adventuresque capabilities of my buff truck, but needed something w/ better gas mileage and more family practicality...the 09 Subaru Forester really rocks! I highly recommend it for it's all round utility and great price.

I once went to a sub-compact and it was just too drastic of a change for me- too small and lacked the versatility to cater to an outdoor enthusiast, plus suck in bad weather...I average about 24 mpg on a weekly basis commuting and can get up to 27 mpg on road drips if I drive conservatively...

Rah,

Tom


'09 Forester Limited here also. I can lay my medium Fisher HiFi in the back (seats folded) without removing the wheel or lowering the saddle. I may put the Subaru hitch on later and get a hitch rack. Getting 24 around town, 28 and up on a trip with the base engine. We really like the utility and comfort of this vehicle, and the mpg is decent.

My wife got the MINI Clubman, base, with the 6 speed auto. The shift points seem to make the weaker engine effective enough, yet deliver high mpg.

Both vehicles were priced in the mid to lower 20's, and well equiped.

We are now officially a 4 cylinder family. The V8 and V6 vehicles are history! My exhileration now comes from the mountain bike!

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Finally, the Fit. Badass. I didn't get to drive it, but it's simply...cool :) Lots of space for such a small car! I was afraid if we took one for a spin I'd be ready to plunk down the cash. Anyone here own one and have anything bad to say about it?

I'm not sure if you will define this as bad but....When the Fit was first released, Japanese tuners were clamoring to stuff a J-spec Integra Type R K20A motor (think US-spec Acura RSX-Type S with 20 more HP and a redline optimistically near 9K rpms) into the Fit. There are now plenty of steroid-ed up Fits prowling Japan and even a few gutted and roll-caged up road-race track-sluts as well. No matter what kind of new cars come out, you can always be certain that some wrench-monkey's gonna try and stuff a big motor into a small chassis and go race'n! :D


Fits:

Spoon Sports road-race Fit (http://www.typeone.jp/img/wallpaper/20040910_01a.jpg)

J's Racing Fit (http://images.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0705_05_z+2005_honda_fit+2.4l_d ohc_ivtec_k24_engine.jpg)with K20-swap and individual throttle bodies!!!

Mugen Racing (http://www.cali-snt.com/07-08_Honda_Fit_Type-M_Wide_Body_Body_Kit__18-piece_..jpg) (Honda's official aftermarket arm) Fit with body-kit and wheels

and for those who like pink: standard K-swapped Fit. (http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c275/eurofreeeek/pinkjazzk20001.jpg)

[Dirt]

Like many, I'm extremely opinionated about cars. That's my disclaimer.

I've always liked small cars. The smaller the better. I had a mini for a few years and that thing kicked butt. You could drive it like an idiot and it still got almost 40mpg in town.

Whether you like or don't like the looks of the smart car, it isn't much fun to drive. The gearbox is rubbish. The manual tranny versions in Europe are a lot of fun and remarkably good cars for their intended purpose... as a town car. Americans (myself included) love being the bitch of oil-producing nations too much to have it be anything else.

I'm not a fan of the Matrix. Though there's an amazing amount of interior space in them, the build quality is really questionable. Every one that I've ever driven makes me get out and check the badge on the hood to check and see if it is a Toyota. The AWD version is only available in an automatic.

The two cars that you should probably take a look at are the Mazda 3 and the VW Golf (or Jetta) TDi. The VW Diesels are awesome. The new Jetta wagon looks very cool too. I've got a friend with a MkV Golf TDi and he gets almost 60mpg in town with it.

Pete

[halfinch]

The two cars that you should probably take a look at are the Mazda 3 and the VW Golf (or Jetta) TDi. The VW Diesels are awesome. The new Jetta wagon looks very cool too. I've got a friend with a MkV Golf TDi and he gets almost 60mpg in town with it.

Pete

the new diesels have me hopeful that more will be made available here. I've owned two volkswagens in my former days - great looking cars, fun to drive, expensive to fix at the dealership and the cost of replacement parts drove me away. Both of mine had mechanical issues - thrown rod and bad tranny.



Honda's are pretty easy to mod, and there's always a glut of parts on CL plus intel on site's like honda-tech and d-series (for those have older honda's like mine.)

I put about a 100 miles a day on my car commuting, so the warranty will influence my next purchase. i'm leaning towards a FIT or Versa.

[rossi]

A couple months ago I bought a Pontiac Vibe (Same car as the Matrix.. built in the same factory, but slightly cheaper because it is a pontiac). The car is pretty much no frills, and the interior is a little on the chintzy side. But it has a lot of room (I can fit 2 mountain bikes inside the car, a rear rack works, and it comes with rails so that you could mount a roof rack).

As a car for commuting it has worked well for me. It gets consistently 30-32 mpg minimum, and I can carry bikes, the dog, etc. But if you are looking at the Matrix, I would look at thic car also. It generally is a little cheaper because it doesn't have the Toyota name, and it comes with a longer factory warranty (or at least it did).

Also, the car does not have a ton of power, and the smallish wheels make me think it will not be good in snow. But I also have a 4wd truck if conditions are bad.

[randyg1]

The 3 steps to buying a new car for cyclists-

1. Buy a fork mount at Performance for $10 and attach it to a piece of wood.

2. Take that and your bikes to every dealer you are interested in and see which cars will fit your bikes upright in the back. (maybe look at a Carmax as they will have multiple brands)

3. Drive each car. Which ever is the most comfortable to sit in and gets the best gas
mileage wins!!!

Also consider which is the easiest to clean up inside, with a bike in the back all the time it gets real dirty. I ended up with an Element. Not as good mileage, but at 6'3'' it's the only car in this category I sit in comfortably.

[riderx]

I'm interested in the Honda Fit, Mazda 3, and the Toyota Matrix. Tom at the Bicycle Escape has a Honda Fit and he fits quite a few bike boxes in the rear of that thing. It has more room than a clown car ;) Drop him an email and I'm sure he can give you some other feedback.

[Dirt]

Tom at the Bicycle Escape has a Honda Fit and he fits quite a few bike boxes in the rear of that thing. It has more room than a clown car ;) Drop him an email and I'm sure he can give you some other feedback.
I drove a fit last month for a few days. I jacked it from a friend. I really liked it.

[pepelkod]

...top marks when compared to other vehicles in it's class - not an absolute measure of "safety". e.g. my Honda Pilot gets top marks, too. I'll take a Smart car in a game of chicken any day.


You are 6% more likely to die in a mid sized SUV than a mid sized sedan. You are 3 times as likely to kill another in an SUV as in a sedan.
Source:
http://www.amazon.com/High-Mighty-SUVs-Dangerous-Vehicles/dp/1586481231

Seriously though you are right. More material is safer for you. More mass is bad for other drivers. Don't drive crazy and you will not flip (the cause of most SUV deaths). And with modern stability/traction control it is much harder to flip them.

Back on topic. I drive a Honda Fit and I like it. It handles well for a small car. I have owned a 95 Toyota Supra, and a 2002 Toyota MR2 so I feel somewhat qualified to comment on handling.

People keep mentioning the size. It may be the smallest (excepting the smart car) but the interior is huge. With the seats folded down it is taller than an explorer cargo area. It is narrower and shorter but not by much. Check one out in person and be sure to play with the seat configurations.

Downside to the Honda is lack of power. Much like me on a mountain bike it has no power. It is light so around town it feels fine. Accelerate away from a light and it goes ok. However, go to West Virginia you better expect to put it in 3rd for the steeper hills.

Having said that I would not trade the power for fuel efficiency. Aside from the occasional trip to WV it is a perfect car.

Oh and bike haulin': I have a Thule T2 hitch rack. The hitch was easy to install and required no drilling. The T2 is awesome. Super fast to put the bike on and no damage. Also, the Fit is weighted to the front so adding the rack and bike to the back balances the weight distribution.

-Doug

[Snot-Rocket]

I rented an Elantra a couple of months on travel w/ work and was really, really surprised by how nice that car was...so might be worth factoring into your assessment.

As for the Cobalt- what a piece of crap; it had to be the worst car I've every driven, my Mom's 64 Ford Falcon drove much more nicely...

I'm definitely excited by the trend for smaller more practical vehicles- maybe there will be more room for a bike lane on Gallows and other roads in the future. I keep getting fired up by the hot lanes going in on 495 between Tysons and Springfield - more lanes as the solution to pollution per Traffic congestion- just doesn't feel like the right direction.

There was a great write up on the Honda Fit in the Washington post - really complimented the ergonomic design considerations that went into making a go cart comfortable.

As for the AWD Matrix - be wary, I had one a while back and to fit in the AWD transmission they greatly reduced the gas tank to 11 gals...this was a major inconvenience, I believe the new models have a bit more to them. Overall- the interior efficiencies of the Matrix was reallly nice- the fold flat seats are great.

With the go carts - I wouldn't skimp on the safey factor - remember Americans view auto safety per how well the vehicles protect from making mistakes and not acquiring good driving habits. This is likely the biggest reason that makes me hesitate on owning anything smaller then the Forester.

I really liked Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/?mktcat=edmunds&kw=edmunds&mktid=ga242098&gclid=CNmpwLaqqZYCFRIfDQodfXKkyg) for auto research...

Rah,

Tom

[jimh]

Don't laugh too loud. Mazda5. It has all of the Mazda3 underpinnings, you can get a manual, has seating for 6 in a pinch, gets decent mpg.

With 2 young kids...I have been looking at this car/van.

Edmunds.com will help with your decision, lots of good info there.

Jim

[Jackson]

I put about a 100 miles a day on my car commuting, so the warranty will influence my next purchase. i'm leaning towards a FIT or Versa.

I've owned three Honda's and been fairly happen with them - Civic, Accord, and now an Element.

But my complaint is that Honda still holds to a minimal three year/36K warranty model. That may cause me to look elsewhere next time; other manufacturers have been more generous with their warranties.

[CRAIG2]

I went through this same drill. I wanted to keep the off-road/adventuresque capabilities of my buff truck, but needed something w/ better gas mileage and more family practicality...the 09 Subaru Forester really rocks! I highly recommend it for it's all round utility and great price.

I once went to a sub-compact and it was just too drastic of a change for me- too small and lacked the versatility to cater to an outdoor enthusiast, plus suck in bad weather...I average about 24 mpg on a weekly basis commuting and can get up to 27 mpg on road drips if I drive conservatively...

Rah,

Tom

Interestingly, this year's top 3 small SUV's rated by Consumer Reports, in order, are the Subaru Forester, Toyota RAV4, and BMW X3.

[gddavid]

Anyone have toyota's box on here? I've never driven one but rode in first generation one a couple of times and was really impressed with the amount of room inside. I know the engine when from 1.5 to 2.4 with the second generation and killed the mileage but have no personnel experience with either, I've been keeping my eyes out for a used first gen. Thoughts?

[CRAIG2]

I rented an Elantra a couple of months on travel w/ work and was really, really surprised by how nice that car was...so might be worth factoring into your assessment.

As for the Cobalt- what a piece of crap; it had to be the worst car I've every driven, my Mom's 64 Ford Falcon drove much more nicely...

Rah,

Tom


What, no mention of the craptacular Aveo? I love how they think that giving the Cavalier a trendy new name will actually result in an increase in sales to anyone other than rental car agencies. And then they thought offering them in bright yellow was a good idea - I guess some people really want everyone else to know what a POS they drive. Hey, I know - to go green and get the room, why not go for that new Escalade Hybrid? Whopping 19mpg and only $70k!!! Go Detroit!

The Hyundai Elantra is a great car - a friend of mine has the Sonata and has had great luck with it. Another has the Elantra. Another bonus - Hyundai has a 10 year / 100,000 mile warranty.

[walsh]

What, no mention of the craptacular Aveo? I love how they think that giving the Cavalier a trendy new name will actually result in an increase in sales to anyone other than rental car agencies. And then they thought offering them in bright yellow was a good idea - I guess some people really want everyone else to know what a POS they drive.

Beg to differ on this one, Craig. The Aveo is actually a findamentally different car than a Cavalier. I read an interesting article recently where they compared the Aveo to the Fit, and argued that finish and ergonomics were the main differences between the two.

Marissa and I rented an Aveo hatchback on an uber-budget ski trip, and drove it from Albuquerque up to Taos. I have to say that it was a very capable little car. I'll agree with the ergonomics (who builds a cup holder that interferes with the gearshift??), but it was predictable, had room for skis, and got every bit of 35mpg on mountain roads. The only nasty surprise was when I stepped on the brakes on a snowy, bench-cut road, and started to skid sideways - I had to teach my self to drive in the snow with traditional brakes again.:D

I rented a Malibu that was a different story entirely, but the Aveo seemed to be a smart little car if you don't care about image. Long-term ownership may be a different story, but I'm a little pickier than most in that department. I like engines that tend to get 250,000 miles.

[CRAIG2]

Beg to differ on this one, Craig. The Aveo is actually a findamentally different car than a Cavalier. I read an interesting article recently where they compared the Aveo to the Fit, and argued that finish and ergonomics were the main differences between the two.



Correction / Clarification - I was meaning to compare the Cobalt and Cavalier.

I'll never buy an American car again - they're just junk, and they don't hold their value. Rather than build a more efficient engine, our solution is just to build smaller and smaller pieces of junk. I guess 35mpg is great and all, but I consider a lot more when buying a car than gas mileage.

[walsh]

I'll never buy an American car again - they're just junk, and they don't hold their value. Rather than build a more efficient engine, our solution is just to build smaller and smaller pieces of junk.

But but but the Chevy Aveo is made in Korea! By Daewoo! Buy American! :p

[CRAIG2]

But but but the Chevy Aveo is made in Korea! By Daewoo! Buy American! :p

Ok, so they're faux American junk. I stand corrected. :D

[CRAIG2]

But but but the Chevy Aveo is made in Korea! By Daewoo! Buy American! :p

Ok, so they're faux American junk. I stand corrected. :D

[brcire]

Hot dog! :D:D:D

This is great info! Appreciate all the input.

Eric

[BikerMiker]

I also checked out and almost bought a Mazda5.

Check it out.

mike

[blacknell]

One of my best friends has a first gen Scion xB for his daily driver, GGDavid, and he couldn't be happier with it. Decent mileage, all the room you could want, and trouble free (he is unfamiliar with the concept of car care, to boot). It's pure transportation - you'll never get any joy out of driving it, but it'll otherwise serve you well, I think.

~

I'm a fan of buying a good car and just keeping it. I don't need the latest gadgets, new car smell, etc. I'm hoping my 540i* will stick around for another 5 years, but if it doesn't, I'll look at something like an Audi wagon (A3). Quality build, practical proportions, and not terribly expensive.


*Not the best roadtrip vehicle these days, I was recently reminded. 3000 miles of driving / ~23mpg avg (two bikes on top) x Canadian gas prices of ~$5/gal. = ouch.

[tsunayoshi]

I'm late to this thread, but to echo everone else, the small wagons are great. When my Grand Prix died last Feb, I replaced it with a Protege5 Wagon (the Mazda 3 replaced the Protege line I think). With the roof racks (Yakima), I can fit 3 bikes, the wife and 2 kids, 2 suitcases, carryons, and all my cycling gear. If I drop the seats, I can fit the bike inside with wheels off so it's not sitting on the rack at work. I haven't actually done it, but if I take off the front wheel and saddle, I can probably just drop one half of the rear seat and roll the bike in upright and still fit the kids.

Compact wagons are my new car of choice.

[halfinch]

But but but the Chevy Aveo is made in Korea! By Daewoo! Buy American! :p


the aevo is like a focus is like a rio. they're disposable. you get a 5/100 on them, list of $10 - 14k and you toss it when the note is paid off. upside, payments of less than $175/month. downside, low return value.

[heidi]

I bought a new Mazda3 GT 5 speed hatchback back in May. I love the little car. Went from a 2001 Pathfinder. It is a small car, but the 2.3L 4 is quite zippy (zoom-zoom!). I’m averaging about 27mpg, and I drive up and over lots of hills every day, twice. I paid $21.4k. I liked this one over the Matrix and others because it has more standard features and more options. It has traction control, heated seats, auto wipers, sunroof, auto HID lights, leather… Even as low as this car is, I didn’t want to put a roof rack on it. I have a 1.25” hitch and a Thule T2 tray rack. The rack works fine, but folded up it obscures the taillights, which worries me. And it’s a beautiful shade of metallic blue! The Speed3 costs more, and gets worse mileage, but is probably awesome to drive!

[walsh]

the aevo is like a focus is like a rio. they're disposable.

Like I said, long-term ownership of any of these cars is not something I have any experience with. In high school I drove a 1976 Beetle whose odometer gave out at 226k. The car kept running with minimal TLC, and is still around. My 1996 5-speed Volvo 850 wagon can be a money pit when it comes to maintenance, but it just passed 110 and I fully expect to double that. I like engines that last.

[CRAIG2]

the aevo is like a focus is like a rio. they're disposable. you get a 5/100 on them, list of $10 - 14k and you toss it when the note is paid off. upside, payments of less than $175/month. downside, low return value.


I completely agree. My Fukkus was about $172 a month, lasted a little over 6 years, and I got $1000 for it when I traded it in. I probably made out well, all said and done.

I replaced it almost 2 years ago with a used Outback wagon (2003) that I paid a little under $16k for, loaded, an I'm sure it'll get $250k miles or better. At the rate I drive, that'll probably take me 10 more years.

The Big 3 better hope that Americans continue to opt for disposable over quality... :rolleyes:

[halfinch]

I like engines that last.

i fully agree. wasn't meaning to pick on you if it came across that way.

my last 240DL (1983) had over 250K before I sold it to a friend in tennesee. Only reason i sold it was the fact that I didn't want to deal with replacing the catalytic converter.
volvo's older inline 4 engines are great, so you'll hopefully get the same out of yours.

[crack monkey]

The Mazda5 is based on the same platform as the Mazda3 (and the Euro-spec Focus, and the Volvo C30/S40/V50) and shares the drivetrain with the Mazda3 (2.3L inline 4, if memory serves).

Think of it as a taller Mazda3 with an extra row of seats. It's the vehicle 95% of soccer moms should be driving instead of Canyoneros and Hummers. Several co-workers have recently traded in normal minivans for the Mazda5.

[BikerMiker]

I got our Mazda6 wagon fully loaded with 27k miles for $12.5k. I reliably get 25mpg or more, bikes or no bikes. I try to drive gently and I like the 6cyl when I need it. Again, riding to work makes those bi-weekly (every two weeks) fill ups hurt less.

If I could have found a Mazda5 at that price with those features, I would have bought it right away. Methinks those cars are harder to find than the 6.

mike

[BikerMiker]

EPA mileage numbers out... http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/overall-high.htm

mike

[silly_yak]

My Ford Pocus Wagon has good space, was cheap, seems to be holding up well at 75k miles and I average around 27mpg in traffic. Got 36mpg on a trip up to Jersey.

That said, it's an auto, so it is kinda a turd.

[CRAIG2]

My Ford Pocus Wagon has good space, was cheap, seems to be holding up well at 75k miles and I average around 27mpg in traffic. Got 36mpg on a trip up to Jersey.

That said, it's an auto, so it is kinda a turd.


Yep, mine saw about 105k miles before the clutch started to go, 4th and 5th gears began to slip, and I started having chronic brake noise issues. Actually, lots of things began to rattle. It was cheap, though.

One thing I learned - NEVER take your car to NTB for anything other than tires, or maybe a battery.

[silly_yak]

Yep, mine saw about 105k miles before the clutch started to go, 4th and 5th gears began to slip, and I started having chronic brake noise issues. Actually, lots of things began to rattle. It was cheap, though.

One thing I learned - NEVER take your car to NTB for anything other than tires, or maybe a battery.

I have tried to follow the manufacturer's suggested items, doing as many of them myself as possible. Hopefully we can stretch many more miles out of the Pocus. Some simple things I try and do myself.

Case in point, both the dealer and mechanic wanted ~$400 to change the plugs and wires in my van. Did it myself for ~$100.

[CRAIG2]

I have tried to follow the manufacturer's suggested items, doing as many of them myself as possible. Hopefully we can stretch many more miles out of the Pocus. Some simple things I try and do myself.

Case in point, both the dealer and mechanic wanted ~$400 to change the plugs and wires in my van. Did it myself for ~$100.


Oh, I'm religous with preventative maintenance.

$400 for plugs and wires is crazy! Those are Mercedes Benz prices! For domestic cars, there's actually a really decent small shop I refer friends to over off of Edsall Road close to that Marlo. Super honest guy, and his rates are about $60 an hour.

[Dirt]

Oh, I'm religous with preventative maintenance.
He weard a condom and counts the rosary while changing his oil. ;)

Amen brother!

Pete

[silly_yak]

Oh, I'm religous with preventative maintenance.

$400 for plugs and wires is crazy! Those are Mercedes Benz prices! For domestic cars, there's actually a really decent small shop I refer friends to over off of Edsall Road close to that Marlo. Super honest guy, and his rates are about $60 an hour.

To be fair, Dodge did a really crappy job of making the rear plugs accessible. Since the rate book needs to be written in such a way that everyone can do it, it states that they should be replaced from UNDER THE CAR! That means lifting it, and removing the exhaust manifold, to say the least. Since I am a little dude, I was able to lie on top of the engine, snake my arm around the intake manifold and replace them purely by touch. If my forearms were much larger, there would be no way.

[silly_yak]

He weard a condom and counts the rosary while changing his oil. ;)

Amen brother!

Pete

If he truly was religious, he would use the rhythm method. You have to pay close attention to the oil temp gauge and pull the plug out at exactly the right moment.

[blacknell]

Every spark is sacred, every spark is great . . .

[silly_yak]

To get back on target, here is a car review blog written by a cyclist, and he goes into bike fit, comfort, camping gear room for each car he writes about.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/weekend_athlete/

[FIX_BKS]

If you've got a Fisher there's really only one choice (http://www.fisherbikes.com/team/).

I went from an Outback (automatic) to a Baja (manual) last year (same platform, just with an open bed) and have loved it.

Granted it does have a "different" look which I happen to love...and others happen to hate - and it did make this guy's list (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ugly_cars) at #1!! (I suggest going to the homepage and reading some of the other articles...fun knee)

If I were looking for anything smaller, I would probably go with an Impreza. Whether I would choose the WRX or not is another question. The naturally aspirated I-4 Boxxer does just fine for me and I've loaded it down with a LOT of crap...from 9 bikes at a time, to a full size cruiser motorcycle, to 50 boxes of brochures, to towing a boat and (while it does sip more gas under those conditions) has taken me everywhere I need to go. Plus the turbo requires premium.

W/o being overloaded, I usually get around 25-26 mpg on the highway (keep in mind I have a rather large roof rack on at all times) and 20 mpg's in the city.

As for AWD, it's a careful consideration. I like it not only in the snow, but also in the rain, on gravel/dirt and when pulling the boat out of the launch ramp. It'd be nice if they would allow you to engage/disengage it from inside the car...or better yet, offer a "Low" feature like they did during the early 80's in the Brat! (There is actually relay/fuse you can pull under the hood to disengage one set of drive wheels, but is referenced only for towing). I'm so used to the AWD drive now, that when I drive my girlfriend's Mini, I find I'm often breaking the tires loose making turns into traffic from a stop. Mini's are fun too. Really fun. I'm only allowed to drive hers supervised. :rolleyes:

[jabberwocky]

Whether I would choose the WRX or not is another question. The naturally aspirated I-4 Boxxer does just fine for me and I've loaded it down with a LOT of crap...from 9 bikes at a time, to a full size cruiser motorcycle, to 50 boxes of brochures, to towing a boat and (while it does sip more gas under those conditions) has taken me everywhere I need to go. Plus the turbo requires premium.Yeah... the rex isn't a good choice if economy is a primary consideration. It requires premium fuel, and if you are driving it the way it was meant to be driven (which you will...) then mileage plummets. I can easily push mileage down into the mid-high teens with mine in around-town driving if I'm redlining my shifts. Granted, if you drive it more conservatively (staying out of the turbo range) then mileage is pretty good (i.e. mid 20s).

Its a seriously fun car though, and the wagon is actually quite utilitarian. But it isn't economical.

As for AWD, I like it more from the performance angle. It performs better in regard to torque steer than a FWD car, and its way harder to get yourself in trouble than a RWD car. Plus, doing rally drifts in the snow and rain is lots of fun. :D

[edyflwr]

I have a toyota matrix. I have roof racks, but it's only because I took them off of my old car. I usually just fold the seats down and put my bike inside. I've even put two bikes inside. The matrix gets good gas mileage and has a lot of features that make it feel like a minivan without being one.

[CRAIG2]

If you've got a Fisher there's really only one choice (http://www.fisherbikes.com/team/).

I went from an Outback (automatic) to a Baja (manual) last year (same platform, just with an open bed) and have loved it.




I looked at the Baja, but I found that bed to be too small to really do anything with (without using that extender cage), and assuming you had more than two occupants, there really wasn't any storage / cargo space. Sure, there's that tiny little bed, but if it's not dry out, your stuff gets wet. With the liftgate shut, it hardly looked like it could accomodate my set of golf clubs, much less a bicycle. I also found that I could get a lot more "goodies" on the Outback than I could on the Baja for the price. I'd say the Baja might have the Outback beat in the "conversation piece" category, but that's about it. (Though, it was a contender until I found my Outback in the manual).

[brian_brox]

Granted it does have a "different" look which I happen to love...and others happen to hate - and it did make this guy's list (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ugly_cars) at #1!! (I suggest going to the homepage and reading some of the other articles...fun knee)
Worse than the Aztek...ouch

[FIX_BKS]

I looked at the Baja, but I found that bed to be too small to really do anything with (without using that extender cage), and assuming you had more than two occupants, there really wasn't any storage / cargo space. Sure, there's that tiny little bed, but if it's not dry out, your stuff gets wet. With the liftgate shut, it hardly looked like it could accomodate my set of golf clubs, much less a bicycle. I also found that I could get a lot more "goodies" on the Outback than I could on the Baja for the price. I'd say the Baja might have the Outback beat in the "conversation piece" category, but that's about it. (Though, it was a contender until I found my Outback in the manual).

It's not thaaaat small in the back. Sure it's no F350, but if you're not hauling lumber (which does fit through the "switchback") or sheetrock (which happens to be the exact width of the bed), it's perfect for muddy wheels, sweaty shoes/socks, snowy snowboards and lots of other junk. I do have the bed extender which I use about half the time when I'm carrying stuff, but it's also a nice divider when it's folded in with the tailgate up. Ultimately the Baja really shines with big and bulky items (i.e. the motorcycle, big cabinets, shelves, etc. - I moved tons of couches and other furniture with it too.) Yes, stuff does get wet in the back though if it's raining, which can be annoying, but that's a con that comes with a lot of pros.

I probably shoulda just stuck with my point that I'm a Subie fan and will probably buy a 3rd as my next car unless I cave and get a Clubman.

[CRAIG2]

No doubt the Subie's rock. I love mine. I took a look at the Clubman. Pretty fun to drive, but as others have said, for a number of reasons the AWD is really nice, longevity / durability of the new Mini is kind of an unknown, and I also really like the ground clearance I get. I was also not that impressed with the Mini gas mileage ratings. The toggle switches were a little annoying, too, I thought. All in all, I'm one of those guys that goes for function over curb appeal. Not knocking the Mini - just sayin' it's not for me. It would make a fun second car, but paying property tax on one car every year is enough for me! :rolleyes:

[werace424]

Do any of you small car owners, (male) find yourselves in this type of situation????

Small car driver, (let's call him Eric), comes out of the woods from just smokin' a sub 50 minute lap at say....Rosaryville. The lot has about 4-5 other cars/trucks besides Eric's Sub-compact car. (Insert any recomendation not a Subaru.)

There is a very attractive female rider in the parking lot, (let's call her...ummmm, Susan).

Susan asks Eric how the trails are, how fast he rode, other MTB related small talk. They are both from lets say...Arlington, they seem to have a lot in common. (She is alos impressed with his ability to get around Rosaryville that quickly.) ;)

Things seem to be going well for Eric and Susan. So she asks him out for a cup of coffee sometime at a local coffee shop they both like. He accepts, he gives her his number, (This is the year 2009, bear with me, I'm almost done.), she says she'll call him. :)

They shake hands and he rides back over to his car. He hears a giggle from Susan. He says, "What's up?" She says.........................

"I hope that is a rental from the dealer while they work on your truck or something......"

Eric, now slightly intimidated by Susan, replies "No, I just bought it 2 months ago, why?" :o

Susan replies back, somewhat embarassed, "No reason, I was just wondering. I'll call you for that coffee!":o

Eric leaves Rosaryville never to hear from Susan again......:D

[pepelkod]

Do any of you small car owners, (male) find yourselves in this type of situation????

Well any woman that was so petty as to judge a man based on the size of his car is not worth his time. Besides, "green" is hip now. :)

-Doug

[jabberwocky]

Eric leaves Rosaryville never to hear from Susan again......:DI'd consider that an encounter that went in Erics favor. Any women who thinks that what someone drives somehow is important is not someone I'd want to waste time or money on. :rolleyes:

Funny story though.

EDIT: Dammit, pepelkod beat me to it. :)

[rizetech]

haha. That's why you get one that's turbo'd - nothing impresses the ladies like the sound of blow off valve.

Anyone wanna buy a corolla? I want a protege5.

[markie]

Do any of you small car owners, (male) find yourselves in this type of situation????



No. The Mini is small and cute and women love it.

I notice that at lights dudes in big trucks will give me strange looks and then think that their big truck will fly past the Mini when the light goes green.

[liznotter]

Do any of you small car owners, (male) find yourselves in this type of situation???? Nah.... Susan would have already made a judgement of Eric based on his BIKE, not his car (pedal cages = deal killer). If "Eric" was riding a rigid 29er SS he built himself, he could put it into a Pinto and Susan wouldn't care. Any mountain biker worth her salt knows the car is just a tool to get the bike to the trails. :)

[toros]

We just got a Fit. Awesome car and it is surprisingly roomy inside. One problem is, if you want any kind of rack for it, you are going to have to wait for a while since the 2009 is newly designed, and Thule and Yakima do not have approved racks for it. I am on the notify list for Thule.

As for the hitch racks, the dealer told us that since you need to put a hitch on the car, it may void some warranties since the car is not meant to tow. So, if you come in with a transmission problem in a few years, even though you didn't tow anything, they can apparently void your warranty because of the hitch.

It seems like you could fit two bikes into it with the many different seat configuration options.

Good luck..

toros

[werace424]

Buzz kilz! Are you all trying to ruin my jab at Eric allegedly not having to compensate with car size? I do agree with all of you, but it was certainly was worth a shot.
I forgot that green is hip now. I don't know how, but I guess me in my little Ranger @ 19MPG just isn't cool enough. :o

Well any woman that was so petty as to judge a man based on the size of his car is not worth his time. Besides, "green" is hip now. :)
-Doug

I'd consider that an encounter that went in Erics favor. Any women who thinks that what someone drives somehow is important is not someone I'd want to waste time or money on. :rolleyes:

Funny story though.

EDIT: Dammit, pepelkod beat me to it. :)

Nah.... Susan would have already made a judgement of Eric based on his BIKE, not his car (pedal cages = deal killer). If "Eric" was riding a rigid 29er SS he built himself, he could put it into a Pinto and Susan wouldn't care. Any mountain biker worth her salt knows the car is just a tool to get the bike to the trails. :)

[heidi]

Susan's comment shows her concern for the finish on/in Eric's sub-compact car. She is unaware of how Eric has figured out how to stow his rigid 29-er SS without damaging the vehicle. Since Eric misinterpreted Susan's inquiry to mean she was not in favor of his economical, environmentally friendly auto choice, his reply embarrased her. Susan intended to call Eric, but was just certain Eric had chided with his buddies afterwards about what a gold digger Susan was.

3 months later they were matched up on Match.com and were married shortly thereafter. They continue to ride together and are considering a tandem.

[toonces]

I bought a new Mazda3 GT 5 speed hatchback back in May. I love the little car.... Even as low as this car is, I didn’t want to put a roof rack on it. I have a 1.25” hitch and a Thule T2 tray rack. The rack works fine, but folded up it obscures the taillights, which worries me.

You might want to consider the Yakima HoldUp (http://www.yakima.com/racks/bike-racks/product/8002428/holdup-1-1-4.aspx) tray rack. I just got the 2-inch version and am very happy with it. The trays for the front tire fold in when not in use to reduce the width to around 45 inches when folded up. There's a picture on the link to the Yakima web site. It lists for a little more than the T2, but my 20% off coupon from The Bike Lane significantly brought down the price.

[brcire]

Susan's comment shows her concern for the finish on/in Eric's sub-compact car. She is unaware of how Eric has figured out how to stow his rigid 29-er SS without damaging the vehicle. Since Eric misinterpreted Susan's inquiry to mean she was not in favor of his economical, environmentally friendly auto choice, his reply embarrased her. Susan intended to call Eric, but was just certain Eric had chided with his buddies afterwards about what a gold digger Susan was.

3 months later they were matched up on Match.com and were married shortly thereafter. They continue to ride together and are considering a tandem.

I was afraid it would be a WashPost Date Lab first date write up. :eek::D

Paul, when you hear "RIDER UP!" just clear OFF the trail and hold your breath. I don't want you choking on my dust. :D:p:D

[EJensen]

the new diesels have me hopeful that more will be made available here. I've owned two volkswagens in my former days - great looking cars, fun to drive, expensive to fix at the dealership and the cost of replacement parts drove me away. Both of mine had mechanical issues - thrown rod and bad tranny.

My wife drives a 2000 Passat wagon. I cannot say enough bad things about the reliability of that car. I've sworn off VWs for a while.

Regards,
Eric

[silly_yak]

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/04/weekend-athlete.html

[crack monkey]

...while they work on your truck or something......"


My wife almost bailed on our first date when she realized I drove a big red GMC truck. Figured I was some sort of redneck.

She decided to stay for the date, realized I was some sort of redneck, and married me anyway.

[MD Fire]

Last summer I was looking for a smaller car also. I looked at the Honda Fit, Mazda 3s, VW Rabbit, and VW GTI.

I went with the GTI for a few reasons and it has been great. Plenty of power, tons of standard equiptment, awesome handling, and better ride quality than you would expect. That and I can definatly fit a ton of stuff in it with the back seats folded down.

The only downside to the GTI is that it takes premium fuel and preventative maintenance is expensive ($560 for my 20k mile service and a brake line flush!)

I did get an average of 33.4mpg on my way home from the Smoky Mountains on Thursday. Average of 65mph for 540~ miles of mountains with 30 mintues of sitting in 495 traffic at the end.


I have a thule roof rack with a 594 side arm and a 517 Peloton. even with all that crud on top of the car I can still get 30-32mpg on my way to and from work. Before I had the rack, I could fold my seats down and with the front tire removed, I could fit my mtb in the hatch no problem.

[ChrisJ]

560 for my 20k mile service and a brake line flush!


Do it yourself it would probally be 1/2 of that if not less. :cool:

[MD Fire]

Do it yourself it would probally be 1/2 of that if not less. :cool:


Yeah, and I have done everything on the list before, but it is mainly a warranty preservation issue. The only thing I can't do is reset the maintenance reminder. I can get a cable/software to do that later, however. :D

[slowWes]

I drive an Integra and don't use a rack at all. Just take the front wheel off and stick it in the hatch. Obviously, if you go to the trail with other people, this would be a problem.

[raymo853]

The only downside to the GTI is that it takes premium fuel and preventative maintenance is expensive ($560 for my 20k mile service and a brake line flush!)



Did VW or a VW dealer tell you the flush was required to maintain your warranty? It sounds like allot of malarkey to me if true and a reason for me not to consider a VW.

[MD Fire]

The brake line flush is just something they do every two years regardless of mileage.

Nobody told me it was nessesary to go to a VW dealer for PM to maintain warranty, but I do it to maintain a "history" on the car for resale and incase any warranty claims come up with any issue.

The $560PM was a lot more than usual. the first three ran me 100-$150 each.

[CRAIG2]

Did VW or a VW dealer tell you the flush was required to maintain your warranty? It sounds like allot of malarkey to me if true and a reason for me not to consider a VW.

It's that good ol' German engineering. A previous coworker of mine purchased a Carrera 4 (sp?) to treat his midlife crisis, and you do NOT want to know what an oil change ran him. Some German cars might be nice, but they ain't cheap to fix. VW and Mercedes have not impressed me lately. One of my past girlfriends bought a new Passat 2.0T, and that thing was in the shop more than it was in her driveway during the first month. Fun to drive, but what a PITA.

[jvanbrecht]

For roof rack versus hitch: I personally run a roof rack because I didn't feel like mounting a hitch on my car. In retrospect, I wish I'd gone with the hitch. The advantages to the roof rack is they are easier to install (I don't think any of those cars will come with a hitch standard) and you don't have to worry about getting rear ended. The disadvantage is they hurt gas mileage quite a bit (probably 2-4 mpg with a bike on the roof for me) and you can still run the bike into low structures (garages and drive throughs). Obviously its harder to lift the bike onto the roof, which is more an issue with DH bikes because they are so heavy.


I am late to this thread, but as for the gas mileage hit wrt hitch racks, I take about a 10 to 15mpg hit with my bike on the back of my car :( With the hitch in its stowed position (no bike and folded up), I take about a 2 to 5mpg hit. This is with the Camry hybrid. These numbers are based on the in car computer which so far has been pretty accurate on my gas usage.

The side ways bike definitely poses more of an air brake issue then when its pointed in the same direction as the travel of the vehicle. But at the same time I went with it due to many of the parking structures I use have low cielings.

[jabberwocky]

I am late to this thread, but as for the gas mileage hit wrt hitch racks, I take about a 10 to 15mpg hit with my bike on the back of my car :( With the hitch in its stowed position (no bike and folded up), I take about a 2 to 5mpg hit. This is with the Camry hybrid. These numbers are based on the in car computer which so far has been pretty accurate on my gas usage.

The side ways bike definitely poses more of an air brake issue then when its pointed in the same direction as the travel of the vehicle. But at the same time I went with it due to many of the parking structures I use have low cielings.Thats bizarre, and totally against what everyone else with a hitch rack has told me. Behind the car is generally the best place for something un-aerodynamic. Its not exposed to the direct windstream from the front. Does your bike stick way up or something?

Plus, 10-15mpg seems ridiculously high. I could probably tow a parachute behind my car and not affect mileage like that. With two DH bikes on the roof (big, heavy and unaerodynamic) I lose maybe 4-5mpg.

[jvanbrecht]

I'm not sure if you will define this as bad but....When the Fit was first released, Japanese tuners were clamoring to stuff a J-spec Integra Type R K20A motor (think US-spec Acura RSX-Type S with 20 more HP and a redline optimistically near 9K rpms) into the Fit. There are now plenty of steroid-ed up Fits prowling Japan and even a few gutted and roll-caged up road-race track-sluts as well. No matter what kind of new cars come out, you can always be certain that some wrench-monkey's gonna try and stuff a big motor into a small chassis and go race'n! :D


OT here...
Funny thing is, your right about the above, and in some cases, the mileage actually gets better. While not an appropriate family or biking car, the Pontiac solstice/Saturn Sky... The two door roadster with a 2.2l ecotec 4 cylinder enginer gets around 19/25.. then you take a company like mallet racing, who replaces that 2.2 ecotec with a ls2 V8 from a corvette (and the associated transmission/braking/etc) and oddly enough, the mileage actually goes up to 20/28. Granted this is only a slight increase.. but the fun factor increases dramatically... but so does the price factor.. :)

[jvanbrecht]

The two cars that you should probably take a look at are the Mazda 3 and the VW Golf (or Jetta) TDi. The VW Diesels are awesome. The new Jetta wagon looks very cool too. I've got a friend with a MkV Golf TDi and he gets almost 60mpg in town with it.

Pete

I cannot recommend a VW at the moment... I loved my VW, it was great to drive, it had eletrical problems, like most VW's have (granted I did have a year 1 model), and that the dealership screwed me out of about $1500 (Stohlman in Tysons), of which I managed to get about $700 back out of VW Corp. I had 3 different repairs done (which they sold me on), before the problem was actually fixed by the coil pack recall, which cost me nothing. And having to get my windows fixed 8 times under a recall did not help either. Sure they are amazing to drive, but the problems, and cost of parts (serially, $120 for a third brake light.. 12 led's and a pcb.. that costs about $2 in parts.. I worked it out based on parts and the cost to make... absolutely outrageous) ...

Either way, if I was to recomend a car, the Mazda 3 is really fun, and the mazdaspeed 3 is even better....

[CRAIG2]

Thats bizarre, and totally against what everyone else with a hitch rack has told me. Behind the car is generally the best place for something un-aerodynamic. Its not exposed to the direct windstream from the front. Does your bike stick way up or something?

Plus, 10-15mpg seems ridiculously high. I could probably tow a parachute behind my car and not affect mileage like that. With two DH bikes on the roof (big, heavy and unaerodynamic) I lose maybe 4-5mpg.

10-15 mpg does seem a little ridiculous. I suppose the impact of carrying the bike would depend on the aerodynamics of the vehicle, though. I have a hitch mount rack, and carrying up to 2 bikes has yet to result in any really noticeable drops in gas mileage. I'm sure I might lose 1-2 mpg. But, I also have a wagon, so little, if any of the bike(s) are ever subjected to headwinds caused by the car being in motion.

[Dirt]

I love my VWs. We've got 3 now and I have had at least a dozen over the years. I'd buy another if they'd bring their small cars over to the US.

[MD Fire]

I cannot recommend a VW at the moment... I loved my VW, it was great to drive, it had eletrical problems, like most VW's have (granted I did have a year 1 model), and that the dealership screwed me out of about $1500 (Stohlman in Tysons), of which I managed to get about $700 back out of VW Corp. I had 3 different repairs done (which they sold me on), before the problem was actually fixed by the coil pack recall, which cost me nothing. And having to get my windows fixed 8 times under a recall did not help either. Sure they are amazing to drive, but the problems, and cost of parts (serially, $120 for a third brake light.. 12 led's and a pcb.. that costs about $2 in parts.. I worked it out based on parts and the cost to make... absolutely outrageous) ...


It seems that the new Jettas, Rabbits, and GTIs have not had the electrical issues that have plagued previous generations of VW models. I am on VW forums almost every day and have heard few complaints about the newer generations of their cars. True, the MK IV Golf and GTI had serious quality issues with coil packs and window regulators as well as the "soft touch" plastic peeling.

Most of the complaints I hear with the newer VWs is a little bit of plastic rattling when the sterio is cranked up.


I love my VWs. We've got 3 now and I have had at least a dozen over the years. I'd buy another if they'd bring their small cars over to the US.


I would love to have a Polo or Lupo! I have also been looking for a MK II gti/jetta/golf in good shape for a beater, or even a caddy.

Hotness

http://www.pbase.com/jermbos/image/80486701/original.jpg

[ChrisJ]

I'm not sure if you will define this as bad but....When the Fit was first released, Japanese tuners were clamoring to stuff a J-spec Integra Type R K20A motor (think US-spec Acura RSX-Type S with 20 more HP and a redline optimistically near 9K rpms) into the Fit. There are now plenty of steroid-ed up Fits prowling Japan and even a few gutted and roll-caged up road-race track-sluts as well. No matter what kind of new cars come out, you can always be certain that some wrench-monkey's gonna try and stuff a big motor into a small chassis and go race'n!

Said engine is not big.

http://www.0-60mag.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ls9.jpg

That on the other hand. :D

I don't get the whole lets try to make a Honda fast.

Pete your VWs can be nice. I test drove a VR6 GTI before I picked up my Pontiac and it would move.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Said engine is not big.

Big is a relative term. When you go from a 1.5L making 109hp to a 2.0L making 220+hp, while retaining the same chassis, that makes for lots of fun.

What's there not to get about making a Honda fast? Cheap car, light chassis, gobs of potential, without starting a domestic vs import bench-war, I would say to each their own.

[ChrisJ]

Big is a relative term. When you go from a 1.5L making 109hp to a 2.0L making 220+hp, while retaining the same chassis, that makes for lots of fun.

What's there not to get about making a Honda fast? Cheap car, light chassis, gobs of potential, without starting a domestic vs import bench-war, I would say to each their own.



http://www.rapidmotorsports.com/Larry_Wheelie.jpg


But a honda can't do that.

:p

I'll stop now. Continue on with the Hyper Milage chat. :D

[jabberwocky]

But a honda can't do that.True, but it can go around curves. It can also go more than 50,000 miles without imploding. :p

[halfinch]

But a honda can't do that.

:p

I'll stop now. Continue on with the Hyper Milage chat. :D

http://images.importtuner.com/features/0701_impp_01z+drag_1994_honda_civic _hatchback_si+right_front_view.jpg

but it can put out 789hp and 531 lb-ft of torque available at the wheels, Paul Ho's1994 Honda Civic Si has run a best time of 9.96 at 149mph.

[MD Fire]

http://images.importtuner.com/features/0701_impp_01z+drag_1994_honda_civic _hatchback_si+right_front_view.jpg




That is probably one of the best looking Civics I have seen in awhile. It would look even better without all of the vynil!

[mtnbikerva1]

I have owned: From new a Subaru a Outback- became a hunk of sh@t.
From new Honda civic SI ended up with engine problems; and water leaks since day one.
Owned used Nissan PU trucks, they drive like trucks. A drag to drive.
All the american cars I have owned were ok to very long lasting. But they did not drive like a GTI.
VW GTI The most comfortable to sit in and drive for short or long trips. I almost creamed a old lady last week because she drove in front of me at a cross section, like I had a red light and she had the green(it was the other way around). I hit the brakes and turned the wheel. Me and my car ended up sliding a number of yards side ways and actually sliding/driving down the street along side the old lady with out hitting her. If I had been in any of the other vehicles I have owned or test driven I feel I would have killed or seriously injured herself and me.
In my experience german cars drive and handle much better.
I drove the Mazda 3, it is not anywhere near the car the GTI is.
The Mazdaspeed3 maybe something closer to the GTI but it is manual only and I am tired of driving stick in traffic!
The seats in most vehicles are like sitting on cheap sponges, no support.
How you drive the GTI determines weather you spend very little $ on gas or race car $ on gas.

[ChrisJ]

but it can put out 789hp and 531 lb-ft of torque available at the wheels, Paul Ho's1994 Honda Civic Si has run a best time of 9.96 at 149mph.

Have any idea how much money you have to dump into a 4cyl to make it that fast. :eek:

I will admit a Lancer or STI would be a nice ride.

But a LS1 or SBC built with a nice cam, nothing sounds better.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

But a honda can't do that.

http://funnyhub.com/content_images/3913_1957_fat-wheelie.jpg

That is all. :)

[rizetech]

Except the sound of a supra TT spooling up and passing you.

No matter which side of the fence you stand on large displacement or turbo... each side builds good stuff - neither of which is good for gas mileage, or really a sub-compact car. Maybe a sport-compact car. The GTI is an intriguing car - I had short ride in one as a passenger and was impressed, but it seems small for fitting a bike in. I kinda want one anyways. Blowoff valve noise is by far the most exciting sound ever.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

but it seems small for fitting a bike in. I kinda want one anyways. Blowoff valve noise is by far the most exciting sound ever.


Agreed. Solution: http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/firstdrive/2008/subaru.impreza.wrx/subaru.wrx.340.jpg


Getting smoked at the light by hooked-up Detroit muscle is one thing. Getting nothing but tail lights from what is essentially a glorified station wagon with 4 cylinders and a cargo net (and roof rack! :p) is much, much more humbling.

[jabberwocky]

Except the sound of a supra TT spooling up and passing you.I knew a dude in college who had a souped up Supra. It was making something like 800 hp at the wheels. Insane car. It was an automatic, and could easily break the tires loose at 90+mph during a shift.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

It was making something like 800 hp at the wheels.

Had a friend who was aiming for 600 without internal work done (he grenaded the head assembly at 584hp). Those engines are pretty stout considering the amount of abuse they were subjected to. Supras were pretty much the East's answer to the West's straight line, big-motor, raw power heritage.

[jabberwocky]

Had a friend who was aiming for 600 without internal work done (he grenaded the head assembly at 584hp). Those engines are pretty stout considering the amount of abuse they were subjected to. Supras were pretty much the East's answer to the West's straight line, big-motor, raw power heritage.Yeah, those end-of-the-run Supra twin turbos were apparently pretty popular in the "insane power" tuner community. Ditch both stock turbos, stick a gigantic one in their place, some exhaust work, ecu, etc and boom! Massive horsepower. The guy I knew didn't drive his on the street. Said it was scary-dangerous, and it didn't handle that well anyway.

Theres something to be said for giant engines though. My dad has a BMW M5 (the new one, with the V10) and its damn fun to drive. Instant power. Not like my WRX, where you need to keep the revs up if you want accelerate. You hardly even need to downshift. :) Of course, I could buy like 5 WRXs for what one of those costs.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

BMW M5: cruising at 130mph with comfort. A car like that takes extra effort to drive slow.

[MD Fire]

Theres something to be said for giant engines though. My dad has a BMW M5 (the new one, with the V10) and its damn fun to drive. Instant power. Not like my WRX, where you need to keep the revs up if you want accelerate. You hardly even need to downshift. :) Of course, I could buy like 5 WRXs for what one of those costs.


I got to drive one of the older M5s when I worked at Carmax. I want to say it was a 2002 or 2003 model, silver. Looked like the guy drove it through a boulder field as the weels were chipped to hell. It also looked like he spilled a gallon of milk in the trunk and left it there for awhile, judging by the stain. He sold it to us right before closing and I used it to shuttle a few guys from my office to their cars, which were parked out in West Africa on the other end of the lot.

That car was fun to drive though, at least for the less than a mile I got to drive it. :D

I was looking for a "bug eye" WRX wagon before I decided to get the GTI. People just wanted too much money for them and most I ran across were ragged out or modified.

[halfinch]

Have any idea how much money you have to dump into a 4cyl to make it that fast. :eek:

I will admit a Lancer or STI would be a nice ride.

But a LS1 or SBC built with a nice cam, nothing sounds better.


or how much you'd have to dump into the shelf of a camaro..

the cost would be similar regardless of the chassis.

now if it was a 71 monte.. then we might be tracking...

[ChrisJ]

http://www.noneckschevelle.com/images/carpics/JerryHodges71MonteCarlo.jpg


Really?.....................Reallyy yyy Fugly


Now this



http://www.universalautosalesandclassiccar s.com/images/1969%20Nova2/69Nova2LeftSide.JPG


Or

http://www.heartlandclassicmotors.com/NEWwebStuff/Heartland%20FOR%20SALE/Chevy%20II%20-%202/camaro%20chevy2%20145.jpg

But a 71 Monte. Is there some childhood memory or you really like that?

:p

[pepelkod]

800 hp at the wheels. Insane car. It was an automatic,

1) What auto tranny could handle that HP?
2) Why an auto? I am always disappointed when I see high end sports cars with autos.
3) Handling was considered very good in the Supra but I imagine when you get that much HP it is hard to contain.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Toyota-Supra-VS-Ford-in_112936.htm

I owned a 95 Supra. Non-turbo. It was cool looking and reasonably fast, but I always liked to drive the MR2 I got after that better. The light weight had something to do with that.

Back on topic. Honda Fit is a great car.
-Doug

[Dr Phil mmkay]

2) Why an auto? I am always disappointed when I see high end sports cars with autos.

Drag racing. Autos (yes when fully built, can handle lots power transfer) shift a lot faster than you ever can, even faster than Vin Diesel can. :rolleyes:

If you think about it, all you have to do is brake and accelerate in a drag race. Optimally shifting at certain rpms in relation to wheel-grip can be left to the computer to compensate.

Now road racing or pretty much every other type of driving, on the other hand...



edit: Didn't Kobe have a Lambo specially built with an auto as a gift (of many) for his wife? Poor, poor guilty Kobe. :D

[werace424]

I wonder if Eric has a new car yet? If so, what did he get, what influenced his decision, and how does his bike fit?

[tuba_transport]

I wonder if Eric has a new car yet? If so, what did he get, what influenced his decision, and how does his bike fit?
Not sure....

[Dr Phil mmkay]

"I don't know what we're yelling about!!!.....louddd noisess!!"

[werace424]

Yea, I was just wondering if anybody was listening!!!!!!!!!

[rizetech]

What??????

[drevil]

http://tuktok.com/images/iwin.gif

[Dr Phil mmkay]

...and the prize for over-compensation goes to....



:D

[Jackson]

Let's get this thread back on topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6004305485490728080

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Let's get this thread back on topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6004305485490728080

LOL, I can't stop laughing, that's gold!

[silly_yak]

Let's get this thread back on topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6004305485490728080

Hey, I posted that over on the "What Chowder will buy next" thread!

[mtnbikerva1]

Too funny and sad at the same time.

[werace424]

Let's get this thread back on topic:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6004305485490728080

One of my all time favorites. See, we should drive some sort of truck, damm the price of gas and the air. I have sucked more exhaust fumes from cars than trucks while commuting.

[macdaid]

I just got the S version of the Clubman in June and it is a GREAT car. I have three teen/pre-teen children and we all fit into it, along with the 80lb dog, assorted backpacks, sports bags, musical instruments, and three bikes on the top.

I'm going to seriously consider the Mini Club when its time to put the Element out to pasture. It looks great for the reasons you mention; plus; maybe at some point one will be able to convert them into 480hp hybrids!!

Link:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I don't see any flux capacitor. Can one be fitted? :confused2:


The power to weight ratio must be all sorts of awesome. I wonder how many bajillions of dollars did it take for them to convert the thing? And with all the spare parts laying around, if you can sell it off, how much less would it be on your wallet?

so not only do you convert it to a high-performance hybrid, you also convert a front wheel drive car to a 4 wheel drive car. With the right amount of time and money invested, think of the performance potential as far as torque split control, traction control, launch control, active yaw control, etc.

[macdaid]

Yes, then imagine all that mated with a Ford F-150!

link;
http://www.hipadrive.com/sema.html

Hypadrve is a sub company of PML Industries that designed the Hybrid Mini w/pancake motors. Hypadrive is a marketing vehicle targeting the auto indiustry.

[Dirt]

HERE (http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/) is a much better hybrid. He used to be able to use the HOV lanes legally since it is a hybrid.

Don't miss his hybrid scooter project too... though it hasn't seemed to advanced much in the last few years.

XOXOXYZ

Pete

[macdaid]

I liked the scooter.

The engine for the bug isn't big enough...

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Dude, I so wanna drag race that beetle.

[rizetech]

I'll get some naws and take him on!

[Dr Phil mmkay]

So fast, it'll blow the welds off the manifold! :D

[MD Fire]

As long as you remember to double clutch and not granny shift ;)

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/meadxc2/NAWS.jpg

[macdaid]

Nos?

I'm not a tuner, so I had to google NOS...

But when I first saw the pic above I immediately thought of Mentos and Diet Coke, but the bottles were the wrong way around.

That would be a fun Photoshop project for the pic above, if I had the time today to do it in a timely way...

Still, it's rather nice to have a steady paycheck.

[rizetech]

I lol'd - mentos/diet coke would be even better!

But, given the choice of a beetle or a scooter... the scooter wins for sure. The awesome factor is just 10x more.

[bunky]

The 3 steps to buying a new car for cyclists-

1. Buy a fork mount at Performance for $10 and attach it to a piece of wood.

2. Take that and your bikes to every dealer you are interested in and see which cars will fit your bikes upright in the back. (maybe look at a Carmax as they will have multiple brands)

3. Drive each car. Which ever is the most comfortable to sit in and gets the best gas
mileage wins!!!

Also consider which is the easiest to clean up inside, with a bike in the back all the time it gets real dirty. I ended up with an Element. Not as good mileage, but at 6'3'' it's the only car in this category I sit in comfortably.




1. Buy a fork mount at Performance for $10 and attach it to a piece of wood.

NOT PRESSURE TREATED WOOD!!!:nono: Arsenic and other nasty outgassing chemicals in a very small volume with, at times, little or no ventillation.

PS: Buy a matrix

[jabberwocky]

NOT PRESSURE TREATED WOOD!!!:nono: Arsenic and other nasty outgassing chemicals in a very small volume with, at times, little or no ventillation.Chromated Copper Arsenate was phased out as a pressure treatment a few years ago and is no longer produced for residential or general consumer use. That was the stuff that contained arsenic. Pressure treated lumber generally is treated with a copper alkali or sodium borate solution now.

[jvanbrecht]

Chromated Copper Arsenate was phased out as a pressure treatment a few years ago and is no longer produced for residential or general consumer use. That was the stuff that contained arsenic. Pressure treated lumber generally is treated with a copper alkali or sodium borate solution now.

Yep, you can even use PT wood for planter beds with food and vegies, its not toxic, but it probably makes the food taste a little different if it comes in contact.

However, both copper alkali and sodium anything will eat away at a paint job on the car..

[macdaid]

I remember that from when we built our deck.

The Ffx Co. inspector made us scrounge up all the lumber tags we could find to prove we weren't using the wrong type of fasteners with the PT lumber we'd spec'ed.

We were using the old PT, and apparently there are corrosion issues with galvanized fasteners associated with the new PT method - If I recall correctly. That was a few years ago and I haven't used any PT since, so I may have gotten it backward.

Chromated Copper Arsenate was phased out as a pressure treatment a few years ago and is no longer produced for residential or general consumer use. That was the stuff that contained arsenic. Pressure treated lumber generally is treated with a copper alkali or sodium borate solution now.

[jabberwocky]

Also, worrying about the outgassing from a 24" piece of pressure treated lumber in a car is pretty amusing, considering cars are full of synthetic upholsteries, plastics, plastic foams and synthetic carpeting that are all probably outgassing equally nasty stuff at a much higher rate. Thats like worrying about secondhand smoke while wading through waist deep toxic waste. ;)

However, both copper alkali and sodium anything will eat away at a paint job on the car..Yeah, I went through this a few years ago. The manufacturers switched production without really advertising it. We started having problems with galvanized joist and beam hangers oxidizing and falling apart within a year. Turns out the new treatment processes, while more benign health and environment wise, are hell on any metal put into contact with them. We had to spec stainless steel ($$$) until Simpson and USP started producing more hot-dipped galvanized stuff that can withstand the new pressure treatment.

[mtbGreg]

I had the (dis)pleasure of watching my house being built by a pack of boneheads. One of their highlights was building my enitre deck with shiny nails.

I live in a townhouse community and was the first one to move into the row of houses. I took some pleasure in being the guy who got to deliver the news to the a-hole builder and watch him tear down every single deck in the row. I just felt bad for the trees that were wasted.

Sorry for drifting even further off topic...

[jabberwocky]

I had the (dis)pleasure of watching my house being built by a pack of boneheads. One of their highlights was building my enitre deck with shiny nails.Unless "shiny" denotes stainless steel, yeah, that doesn't fly. :) The building code (2006 IRC section R319.3, if you are interested) says that all fasteners for pressure treated lumber shall be hot dipped zinc coated steel, stainless steel, silicon bronze or copper. The only exception is 1/2" or larger steel bolts.

I'm guessing you aren't in Fairfax. They are usually pretty good about catching that at inspection.

[jamiejones]

This weekend i traded in my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland in on my new Honda Fit Sport...

http://www.brandmatika.com/img/fit.jpg

[toros]

Nice... How are you putting bikes in/on it? We are using a Yakima roof rack.. Thule did not come up with a rack for it.

[jvanbrecht]

This weekend i traded in my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland in on my new Honda Fit Sport...


Heh.. you could probably fit your Fit in the trunk of that Jeep :)

Grats on the new car though

[august]

This weekend i traded in my Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland in on my new Honda Fit Sport...

Excellent choice! I just bought one of those in decemeber when my jetta died on me.

Nice... How are you putting bikes in/on it? We are using a Yakima roof rack.. Thule did not come up with a rack for it.

Bikes fit almost straight up without the front wheel on inside. I just ordered a yakima rack for it last week. Hopefully it will be here soon. Any problems installing the rack?

[jamiejones]

Nice... How are you putting bikes in/on it? We are using a Yakima roof rack.. Thule did not come up with a rack for it.

Haven't had to transport bikes yet... i just got it Sat evening. My wife has a truck that we usually use anyway, but i am still planning on getting a Thule when they get them ready (they said it should be soon). :thumbsup:

[jamiejones]

Heh.. you could probably fit your Fit in the trunk of that Jeep :)

Grats on the new car though

You would think so, but i swear the Fit has more room inside than the Jeep somehow.

[toros]

Haven't had to transport bikes yet... i just got it Sat evening. My wife has a truck that we usually use anyway, but i am still planning on getting a Thule when they get them ready (they said it should be soon). :thumbsup:

They have been saying it should be soon since October... We just went with a Yakima...

Bikes fit almost straight up without the front wheel on inside. I just ordered a yakima rack for it last week. Hopefully it will be here soon. Any problems installing the rack?

The rack was incredibly loose on the rear, so I just shrank that measurement and called yakima about it... Then, Yakima updated their website with better measurements. it should be good now.

Toros

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Nice color Jamie! The Fit is a fun little ride.

[jamiejones]

They have been saying it should be soon since October... We just went with a Yakima...

Toros

Just thought i would pass along that Thule has the Rack System ready for the 09 Fit now – in case anyone else was waiting on one.

[toros]

Cool... Although, the website doesn't seem to be updated, it still says nothing is available...

[jamiejones]

Cool... Although, the website doesn't seem to be updated, it still says nothing is available...

You are correct – i've been calling and pestering them – they haven't updated the website to reflect the availability of the fit kit yet. (The fit kit # is 2199, btw)