Down Hill hoop-lah!

[Dr Phil mmkay]

So, apparently the '09 team issues are already out. 8" of travel (up from 7), same adj. head tube, lower C of G, lower BB, slacker geo, 3-way adj. rear brake mount, adj wheelbase (at the rear wheel mount), lower stand-over, longer seat post compatibility, and still the same ugly ass white and green graphics. :rolleyes:

I've been eyeing these badboys since that DIRT feature with the Athertons R&Ding them in Andorra.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/670/commiesmallqg6.jpg

Apparently, the 2010s will be much lighter ('09s were focused more on proper geo and settings, 10's will have different tube set used).

Time to take out another "school" loan. :cool:

[akern2]

I've always been a fan of Commencal bikes. Just couldn't afford them.

I did tool around on a SC with a 40 up front. I'm jealous. That was the smoothest fork i've ever ridden.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

BTW guys, I'm going to relegate all of my DH-related posts here, instead of starting a new thread every time I have one of my noob-tastic questions about DH riding, racing, or rantings. Kind of like how I post my inane technical questions on the Transition thread. I hope no one minds. :o




Funny pic courtesy of our friends over at Tractionmag:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_UUqzwmJ_Rqo/SE3WW8QihDI/AAAAAAAAAmo/KLnu9XSBoGs/s1600/notpumped.jpg

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Well, next Friday is upon us and I'll be hitching a ride with Pirate out to Wisp for some weekend downhill racing. I'm wondering if the WISP vets on here would like to post any advice they might impart on a downhill race-virgin and all-around hamfisting noob like myself?

Let me know if I'm missing anything that I can acquire by Friday afternoon:

My bike :rolleyes:, armor, FF helmet, gloves, and jersies, pump, tubes, powerlinks, chain & multi-tools, extra change of clothes, some sandwiches (is food there expensive?), lots and lots of Gatorade (I just bought a bulk-size package of Tiger, will see if it works), and I've got a bunch of derailleur hangers coming in the mail, still waiting on those.

My pedals might make it in time for the SS race, and I'm not sure if I can go ghetto tubeless in time for this weekend. Any think else I'm missing? Besides a whole extra build-kit, extra wheels and tires, or my own personal mechanic. :cool:

I'm assuming registration will be on site, as far as practice goes, how should I prep for the race? Should I spend a lot of time walking the track? Session parts of the track or just get in as many runs as possible to get the flow down? Etc, etc.

Also, aside from going to the Shed and practicing, is there any trails around here I can use to help me acclimate to parts of WISP? I know there's no DH runs around here but anything's better than nothing.

Thanks

[sevenforty]

Good luck man, sounds like a blast.

[dcrider]

Well, I'm assuming that you know there are two downhill races/courses. One for saturday and the other for sunday. You aren't required to race both but if you choose to you can practice both courses on friday and do some fine tuning on each race day. Generally, I might walk the course if it supposed to be challenging. My first couple runs are generally slower and include stops to look at different lines or tricky sections of the course. Once the majority of the lines are sorted it is pretty important to get up to speed quickly. I find that if I take to long I end up riding considerably slower in my race run. Also, don't change all your lines but be aware if better options turn up later in practice. This can shave off some time by setting you up for a corner or letting take a straighter, more direct line etc.

[akern2]

Run the courses with a group of people, pref. better skilled riders (that won't be hard for you, Phil). That allows you to feel how the course is laid out with speed. Plus, it's funner.

Ride the trails with 1 other people. Sort of play tag. If you're behind, try to get better lines then the person in front of you. This will allow you to catch up and tag them. When in front, try to pick out which will be the smoothest to handle and will provide an all around faster path.


As far as whose going, lets get a roll call. I know its:

Me, Eric Delmar, Delmar, possibly Delmar's bro, Leon & Levi, Pirate, Ed, And maybe Jeff (if he can schedule it in). Good turn out.

[skijim668]

Well, next Friday is upon us and I'll be hitching a ride with Pirate out to Wisp for some weekend downhill racing.

I'm assuming registration will be on site, as far as practice goes, how should I prep for the race? Should I spend a lot of time walking the track? Session parts of the track or just get in as many runs as possible to get the flow down? Etc, etc.

Also, aside from going to the Shed and practicing, is there any trails around here I can use to help me acclimate to parts of WISP? I know there's no DH runs around here but anything's better than nothing.

Thanks

Im new to racing myself .I went up for the last race and I can assure that you will have a good time. Lots of cool people.I underestimated how much fun racing is.Most runs are very similar to Angies.Enjoy just being a part of the competition and most importantly have fun.

[Billy Mathisen]

This new brand of DH bike looks mighty nice:

http://www.corsairbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=bike&taxid=58

[oldskoolbiker]

Run the courses with a group of people, pref. better skilled riders (that won't be hard for you, Phil). That allows you to feel how the course is laid out with speed. Plus, it's funner.

Ride the trails with 1 other people. Sort of play tag. If you're behind, try to get better lines then the person in front of you. This will allow you to catch up and tag them. When in front, try to pick out which will be the smoothest to handle and will provide an all around faster path.


As far as whose going, lets get a roll call. I know its:

Me, Eric Delmar, Delmar, possibly Delmar's bro, Leon & Levi, Pirate, Ed, And maybe Jeff (if he can schedule it in). Good turn out.

My brother isn't going (we're going to SS over July 4th), I haven't confirmed with Levi and Leon yet, but I think they are in.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

This new brand of DH bike looks mighty nice:

http://www.corsairbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=bike&taxid=58

That blow-off shock on the DH-Crown looks FUNky, I was playing around with the travel animation. I wonder if that's like super-bottom-out-protection-extra-gnar-travel that you would only use if you were hucking 40ft to flat :rolleyes:, or like it's always in play, like it's just part of the travel. What I'm getting at is the rear wheel path would look kind of funky and awkward...on paper. But that's pretty cool though, two shocks? Hardcore.

[Billy Mathisen]

But to be able to run your shock nice and supple without having to worry about damaging your frame on bottom out is pretty cool. I believe the bottom out shock is an option though, so you can get it either way.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

As this was mention on the last 939 ride and possibly during the last shuttle ride, and in the latest issue of Decline that I picked up yesterday:

http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.php?page_id=14&msg_id=35&id=3#35

Apparently they're coming out with a less expensive version (read: more heavy, less carbon) in the $200 range, which would be more competitive with the EVS brace ($170):

http://www.evs-sports.com/rc-evolution/

Any thoughts?

I think if I have $600 burning a hole in my wallet, I'd jump onto this product. Around 780 grams for the carbon-lined model. Apparently it doesn't fit too well with the 2008 661 pressure suits, but work fine with TLD armor.

I figure sine we're always decked out from head to toe in armor, it's pretty ironic that we leave one of the most important part of our anatomy exposed. Pro riders are already starting to wear this, and it won't be long before the trend catches on for the rest of us mortals.

http://www.leatt-brace.com/thumbs/ad_pic-brace_gpxsport3.jpg

http://www.leatt-brace.com/thumbs/ad_pic-brace_gpxsport4.jpg

[Billy Mathisen]

It looks like a torture device, doesn't it? I did order one a while ago, I am just waiting for it to be shipped.

I've heard that they are pretty easy to get used to and don't limit your ROM. I'll let you know how I like it.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Good lord! Randall Scott cycles (http://www.rscycle.com/s.nl/it.A/id.27969/.f?sc=11&category=27532)is clearing out '08 Sunday Teams for 3 grand. I think I'm going to faint. :eek:

If there's anyone who would like to get into racing downhill and has a $3,000 bike budget, jump on it now. Shipping is free.

http://www.rscycle.com/site/image_browser/IHSunT_08_lg.jpg

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Has any DHers on here tried soldering their spoke lace intersections together to keep their wheels true and tensioned? DT sells tying wire and solder here (http://www.dtswiss.info/Products/Proline/Bindedraht.aspx) but I'm wondering if generic solder from the hardware store and a steady hand would do just as well. And also, is it worth it for someone who doesn't ride hard, tip the scales too much, and ride on dainty wheels? I remember in one of the rags somewhere a picture of Rennie's wheels with the spokes soldered at the intersection points.

[jabberwocky]

I'd much rather have the ability to easily replace spokes than have the slightly stiffer wheel. I doubt you'd feel any difference, honestly, especially since you weigh so little.

Wheel flex isn't necessarily a bad thing: thats how loads get transfered to adjacent spokes. Thats why double butted spokes (which are thinner in the middle) make a stronger wheel than straight gauge ones. They flex a little more, which means that the load is being spread between 2 or 3 spokes rather than just one.

Last, keep in mind that 2.5" tires with 30 psi in them have 10 times the flex that a wheel does.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Ah, good point. I wasn't planning on doing that anyways since the TBC Revolutions have held up wonderfully (*knocks on wood). I was just wondering why Rennie does it. I know he runs DT wheels (which are known to be fairly soft rims), is that a particular reason to solder the spokes?

After seeing it, I just thought that it was a novel idea, pretty MacGyver-ish.

[jabberwocky]

Ah, good point. I wasn't planning on doing that anyways since the TBC Revolutions have held up wonderfully (*knocks on wood). I was just wondering why Rennie does it. I know he runs DT wheels (which are known to be fairly soft rims), is that a particular reason to solder the spokes?

After seeing it, I just thought that it was a novel idea, pretty MacGyver-ish.To be honest, I strongly doubt it makes any difference one way or another. Feel free to search MTBR (and RBR); I'm sure you'll find tons of wildly conflicting info and opinions to sort through. ;) Some people swear it makes a difference, other people say its snake oil. Personally, I build my wheels appropriate to their intended use and have never had any problems with them, so to me its a solution looking for a problem.

I'd say that if you start blowing up wheels or noticing massive wheel flex, go ahead and look into it. If not, why bother?

[mark w]

I have a friend who is a professional mechanic and he has had positive results with tying and soldering his wheels. Now bear in mind that he is 6'7 and 270# but I have seen him put huge dings in his DH wheels with no change in spoke tension or true. Incidentally, he was wrenching for Team USA at World Champs.

Another angle to the practice is to zip tie all the intersections to keep a broken spoke from catching in the drivetrain/brakes/frame thus minimizing damage to those parts. This is apparently a moto trick that has made it's way into bikes and would allow someone racing at the higher levels to finish a run with minimal impact from that kind of equipment failure. I know Rennie is a "plow" style rider and is a fairly big boy so having his spokes squared away is a pretty big priority.

[pirate]

In case you guys didn't see this over on Ridemonkey... check it out.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205327

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Wow, Darren from Push almost died. It must've been one helluva crash to break helmet and Leatt brace. :eek:

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Sam Hill's custom short(er) travel DH Sea Otter bike from last year (http://www.madcatzracing.com/media/velonews_001.html). Freaking sweet. Looks like a 7-point with crazy slack geometry.

Here's a snap from this year:

http://bonesovermetal.com/wp-content/gallery/sea_otter_main/SeaOtter10.jpg

I'd love to see how a Totem (I know, it's more FR/huck oriented, not suited for racing) would look on there (with green/gold lowers)!

Been kinda obsessing with all things IH/DW/SH lately. I'm thinking SH's Val di Sole run was the catalyst for it. If I ever own a DW Sunday, I'm stripping the paint off and polishing that sucker. :cool:

SH's Sunday (http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/data/748/sam_hill_2008_bike.jpg) with the 35mm Black Box Boxxer


BTW, I've been scouring the intarwebsz now for the past few weeks and have not been able to find a decent quality (or any quality) picture of SH's Worlds Sunday with the polished frame, anyone's got a snap of it?

[akern2]

I know i've said it before, but Phil, you're just a gear whore.


As for Sam Hill, his Val di Sole run was the craziest thing i have ever seen in the world of DH racing.


If i was going to be a gear whore, i'll be one of the cheap ones. I'm thinking that for my IH, i'll do Boxxers up front, Cane Creek Double Barrel in the rear (oh yeah....), and Code 5's all around. Any thoughts?


Or if i can afford it, Saint brakes when they come out.

BTW, Trek will have demo Session 88's at 7 Springs with weekend. New Saint comps. and Avid Elixirs. OMG!

[mark w]

The Sea Otter bike has also been referred to as the "Type 6". Discussions about it predate the 6point which pales in comparison as a mini-DH bike.


I've heard mixed reviews of the Elixirs so far.

John, you in for Snowshoe?

[akern2]

I might be, when is it?


Funds might be limited though. I have money, i just hate spending it. Go figure.

[mark w]

http://www.transcendmagazine.com/gallery/worlds08/T2A3618

http://www.transcendmagazine.com/gallery/worlds08/T2A4392

[mark w]

The 25-27th. Word around the campfire is that the course is going to be Looooong. Ask Phil about the difference between SS and Wisp/the Shed - it's worth the trip.

[mark w]

http://video.mpora.com/watch/B5F9Dik9K/

Other galleries of Worlds photos

http://picasaweb.google.com.au/lematelot56

http://www.flipper.co.za/

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I know i've said it before, but Phil, you're just a gear whore.

I have no shame. :cool:

I've heard mixed reviews of the Elixirs so far.

No pad-contact. Apparently a new version (not the CR--the Elixir with carbon lever) might have the contact point adjustment. I figure my ideal brake setup would probably be Code 7s (yes, 7) with Goodridge lines, Serration TiNi rotors, and possibly Straitline levers. (see my first comment above)

Ask Phil about the difference between SS and Wisp/the Shed - it's worth the trip.

It's worth the trip. Majority of Wisp/tower side of the Shed is fairly tame compared to SS. Although the difficulty level was raised somewhat at SS, and despite my sucking at riding a bicycle, and the race was muddied up, and I still had a blast.

I will admit, Shed's got more rocks. :)

[mark w]

You haven't seen rocks til you've seen Lower Hare Ball and Lower Quick Draw. I was just being nice since it was your first time and all. >:D

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Oh yeah, I forgot. I still can't believe Nghi got lost in lower Hare Ball. I'm sure he'll remember that good and well for a while. :p

[Dr Phil mmkay]

z0mg!!!11!!ONE!!1!!

Either this (http://www.dirtmag.co.uk/news/category/products/exclusive-spy-shots-of-the-new-giant/dirt-1231704.html)confirms DW's move or we will have a few outright copyright disputes on our hands (not that there wasn't any already about DW's DW-link).

My apologies, but being an unashamed gear-whoAR, I'm a little stoked. BOS!:D Glad to see back in the racing game. I remember when I used to lust over their WRC contributions.

[bmathisen]

Interesting.

I wouldn't be surprised if Giant picks up the ball.

[jabberwocky]

I would actually be kinda surprised if Giant licensed the DW-Link. The Maestro suspension is already pretty well regarded. In fact, the Maestro looks a lot like a DW bike, so that pic could very well be a Maestro bike.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I would actually be kinda surprised if Giant licensed the DW-Link. The Maestro suspension is already pretty well regarded. In fact, the Maestro looks a lot like a DW bike, so that pic could very well be a Maestro bike.

Yeah, according to reliable investigative reports on the intardnets (read: fanboy speculations), the Maestro was so similar to DW that copyright infringement was a possibility (this may or may not be true, I kind of don't really care) and that since IH's contract with DW ends after this year's run, Giant decided to buy out DW and just stow it aside while they refine their Maestro. Or not, I've no idea what I'm talking about. :p

But yeah, that prototype from the upper portion of the rear triangle looks to be just like the current Maestro offering. Of course, the bottom rocker is the new addition. I'm wondering if Giant might also consider DW's other design: the Split Pivot? Now that I've thought about it some more, is it possible to have both DW-link and Split Pivot on the same rear triangle? Since all of DW's SP drawing have one of the shock mount attached to the frame. DW has a solid non 4-bar rear triangle floating on two pivots attach to rockers connected to a shock. So then if you were to combine a DW link with a Split Pivot on a downhill bike you get.....a Session 88!?!?

Screw it , come August go buy the new 88 DH or FR. (From The Bike Lane):D




Sorry for the useless bantering and shameless plug. To make up for it, pictures:

http://www.dirtmag.co.uk/images/uploads/news/newgiant2.jpg

[jabberwocky]

Yeah, according to reliable investigative reports on the intardnets (read: fanboy speculations), the Maestro was so similar to DW that copyright infringement was a possibility (this may or may not be true, I kind of don't really care) and that since IH's contract with DW ends after this year's run, Giant decided to buy out DW and just stow it aside while they refine their Maestro. Or not, I've no idea what I'm talking about. :pI personally think Giant would be effing crazy to license DW, since they have a very good suspension system that they own the "patent" to already. Why start paying someone money for every bike you sell for basically no improvement? The only advantage is that DW has successfully marketed his suspension design as the best thing out there, so you get some additional publicity for having a DW bike, but for a company as fracking huge as Giant I think thats a questionable benefit.

The other major drawback is that Giant could end up in the same situation as Iron Horse, where Weagle decides not to renew his agreement with them and they are forced to redesign their bikes whether they want to or not.

I'll admit that I think Weagle is kind of a douche, so I sorta hope nobody picks up DW Link and he's left to whore it out to niche builders for pennies. :rolleyes: I strongly doubt he would let his agreement with IH lapse unless he had another manufacturer lined up, so the odds are against that though.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

The other major drawback is that Giant could end up in the same situation as Iron Horse, where Weagle decides not to renew his agreement with them and they are forced to redesign their bikes whether they want to or not.

Whether or not that happens, Giant's already got a respectable fan-base and loyal following (maybe not as fanatical as Sunday fans), and personally, I appreciate them not charging an arm or a leg for a killer spec list and cleanly designed frames. I've not yet spent enough time on either Maestro or DW suspended rides to really distinguish the differences between then (not much really), but from what I can see, Giant's got a better bargain than IH throughout their entire range.

Of course, before they started blowing Sunday Teams out the door for 3 grand, a Team was still about $700 and 3-4 lbs less than the Glory DH. But that's the exception, I guess. Now about that $6,200 39.9lb Sunday WC....:eek:

[BikerMiker]

Did anybody mention that IronHorse and K2 are going exclusively to big-box next year? No more actual bike shops for them. Dick's was mentioned but I can't remember the others. Iron Horse fired a bunch of people in NY. Jamis was talking to some of the guys.

mike

[BikerMiker]

Are those SIC camo-dized pedals in that recent pic?

mike

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Did anybody mention that IronHorse and K2 are going exclusively to big-box next year?

Yeah, no more test riding for IH, just one-click shopping. Bummer.

[sevenforty]

Did anybody mention that IronHorse and K2 are going exclusively to big-box next year? No more actual bike shops for them. Dick's was mentioned but I can't remember the others. Iron Horse fired a bunch of people in NY. Jamis was talking to some of the guys.

I thought K2 already was? Stinks about IH, I kind of dig their stuff. Ahh well, the same thing happened with the skate industry once it became popular.

That setup looks pretty sweet.

[jabberwocky]

Did anybody mention that IronHorse and K2 are going exclusively to big-box next year? No more actual bike shops for them. Dick's was mentioned but I can't remember the others. Iron Horse fired a bunch of people in NY. Jamis was talking to some of the guys.I knew they were focusing on big-box junk, but I didn't know they were ditching shops completely. Thats a shame, because Iron Horses higher end stuff has always been pretty good.

This will likely kill their standing in the hardcore cyclist community, but the owners will probably too busy bathing in piles of cash to care. :rolleyes:

Now I wonder what the hell Performance is going to sell. After ditching Giant and Jamis, IH was pretty much the only decent mtb brand they carried.

[akern2]

I know i've been a "loyal" Giant fan, just on account of how damn good my Reign is. Really, i've secretly been searching for a bike that is that light with the same amount of travel. The only thing i've found is the Spec. SX Trail, but it ain't that light.


I'd like to see whose going to pick up the DW-Link. Would that company start making the new "Sunday"? Or shall we call it the "Monday"?

[mark w]

the glory is already referred to jokingly as the "Monday" so I guess the new bike will be the "Sunday, a week from now".

[whale]

The only thing i've found is the Spec. SX Trail, but it ain't that light.

i just picked up an sx trail frame to replace my sinister r9 (anyone want to buy a race bike frame?)... i haven't weighed the sx yet, but i definitely wouldn't call it light. here it is freshly built up about 45 mins ago and will get it's test ride this weekend.

i was looking for something that i could actually pedal uphill and feel comfortable with going down. a friend just picked one up and after test riding it at snowshoe last weekend, i was sold. it's an '07 model. anyone have a 400#, 2.75" spring to sell? i need a heavier spring than the 350# that came with it.

http://www.anti-statik.com/whale/pictures/biking/bikes/willsx01.jpg

http://www.anti-statik.com/whale/pictures/biking/bikes/willsx02.jpg

http://www.anti-statik.com/whale/pictures/biking/bikes/willsx03.jpg

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Nice SXT Will, that's quite the departure from an R9. Didn't you say you have a SC for FR duty?

[whale]

Nice SXT Will, that's quite the departure from an R9. Didn't you say you have a SC for FR duty?

yes, i have a heckler that does part-time FR duty. i didn't feel the need to have something that was fully dedicated to DH and could pretty much only be pushed up hill. i'd rather have 2 more versatile bikes and sacrifice the fully dedicated bike.

[akern2]

Great to see the lines of what a bike is for get blurred. If you can, way that sucker. I don't know the actually weight of my bike, but it came in stock at 31.6lbs. Since that, i've added DH tires and a tube, E.13 bash and DRS, and platforms. I'm supposing that I'm weighing it at around 33-35lbs.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Aaaaannnd cue the online-e-speculations in 3, 2, 1....go! (http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/trek-to-sponsor-downhill-mountain-bike-team-in-2009-18004?CPN=RSS&SOURCE=BRMTBRACE)

[Dr Phil mmkay]

And in a bit of irony, Bicycling magazine has a one-page quote-feature starring none other than Mr. Sam Hill. Funny how they added that bit about that certain final-corner wipe-out some time ago.

Putting Sam Hill smack-dab in a lycra-thon of a magazine is ironic to me, ok?! Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[akern2]

i noticed that today, while cutting it out and posting it on my wall.


He still came in third.

[pirate]

i noticed that today, while cutting it out and posting it on my wall.


hehehe... you fanboy, you. :D

[akern2]

Its the eyebrows. How can you not be fast with those?

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Its the eyebrows. How can you not be fast with those?

Hair-odynamics, ftw.