Studded Tires

[baltodeac]

My bro and I want to ride Avalon this weekend and I hear from riderx's kind updates (shout-out) that we're looking at serious ice conditions, so we're thinking about making some studded tires using sheet metal screws, old knobbys, and a recipe found on the 'net. But being a newbie, it's best to ask first:

Do we need studded tires?
Has anyone made them?
If we can only make one per bike, front or back?

Thanks in advance for all tips and thoughts.

[markie@unformat]

Do we need studded tires?
Has anyone made them?
If we can only make one per bike, front or back?



Depends if you like falling on your arse/ what the weather does.

I have not yet, athough I know someone who has....

FRONT

[riderx]

Do we need studded tires?
Has anyone made them?
If we can only make one per bike, front or back?


Answers in order:

- If it's really icy
- Yes. Scroll to Jan. 26th post (http://singlespeedoutlaw.com/archives/archive-01252004-01312004.html)
- Front, but both ends are better, especially for climbing

[bikerRob]

...Do we need studded tires?
Has anyone made them?
If we can only make one per bike, front or back?

Thanks in advance for all tips and thoughts.

1/28/05 >> If you're going to tackle trails that are hard and icy, yes...studded tires are needed...unless of course you like inflicking punishment upon your own body. With studded tires I've ridden up small hills that were shear ice as well as across a frozen lake. You can even turn on ice (if you're careful) with studded tires. If you don't use studs on a rear tire and the tire slips (loses traction) you can sometimes control the fall by fishtailing, however if a front tire slips out....you're going down ...no if's, ands, or butts.. ;) Even with studs you can still fall so it'd be nice to have some elbow/forearms guards, just in case you fall.

I made the set I have myself...this is what I recommend:
Use the flat head sheetmetal screws that RiderX
recommends. I used a drill with a small bit to start the holes for the screws, then I used a battery powered screwdriver to drive in the screws. I recommend using stainless steel screws if you can find them...they will not rust or wear down as fast. I liked what RiderX said about using duct tape to help cover the screws. You can either do that or use a tire liner like I do. The ones I have were called Mr. Tuffys I think. You put these in to cover the screws then put the tube in. These keep the screws from pushing into the tube and causing a flat. I also recommend the heaviest weight tube you can find. When it's all set to go, use a good amount of air pressure to help push against the screw heads to keep um' in place. I hope this helps...One more thing....studs turn your wheels into 26" buzz saws so be reallllllll careful about sliding off the back of your seat for drops... :eek: ( Just visualizing this makes me wince... :o )

[riderx]

A couple of quick notes:
- I found no need to pre-drill the tires. Pointy screws and a cordless drill with a phillips bit works great and will save you a lot of time.

- Take some chalk and pre-mark the knobs you are putting the screws in, allows you to plow right through the job

- A bit of wax on the screwdriver bit helps keep the screws on and lets you work faster.

- Big knobs are better for the screws, you don't want the screw tearing out of the side of the knob.

- You only need the screw to stick out from the knob a little bit, too much and they'll just fold over and won't grip the ice.

[bunky]

Rob, how did you figure out what length and guage the sheet metal screws should be? Stainless?

Is there an ideal length the tips of the screws should protrude through the tread-nub?

It appears you used shorter screws on the portion of the tire that you'd use when the bike is directly upright and longer screws on the sides of the tire used to corner at angles. Is this the case, or were these screws just worn down?

Speaking of wear, can you ride these on roads at all, or are you limited to dirt-snow-ice-frozen logs? Up in the Shed it's nice to use the road a bit to take out bigger sections. Would using the road from the bottom of Little Canaan to get down the hill, over the road to the Murderous Climb that eventually leads to the Lookout wreck the studs?

[dmofot]

Here's how I did it:
http://cyclingcentralva.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1890&st=10&#entry12916

The wax idea seams pretty cool though, never tried that. I predrilled my holes, because I'm not good enough with the drill to pick the right spot.

DT

[riderx]

See answers inserted in your message.

Rob, how did you figure out what length and guage the sheet metal screws should be? Stainless?
Length and gauge was based on reading some web sites. I believe I used 7/16 #8 screws. Did not use stainless, but I got some this year that I will replace the current ones with

Is there an ideal length the tips of the screws should protrude through the tread-nub?
Rob's picture looks about right. Too long and they will fold over. I'd say a 1/4 inch or less

It appears you used shorter screws on the portion of the tire that you'd use when the bike is directly upright and longer screws on the sides of the tire used to corner at angles. Is this the case, or were these screws just worn down?
On the front tire I don't put any down the center. On the rear they are off-set from center. All screws are the same length but you can adjust how much sticks out by how tight you drive them in.

Speaking of wear, can you ride these on roads at all, or are you limited to dirt-snow-ice-frozen logs? Up in the Shed it's nice to use the road a bit to take out bigger sections. Would using the road from the bottom of Little Canaan to get down the hill, over the road to the Murderous Climb that eventually leads to the Lookout wreck the studs?
Roads will definitely wear them down, but not instantly. I ride to the trailhead (a mile each way) and my tires lasted through the winter last year but I started noticing less bite near the end.

[bikerRob]

...Is there an ideal length the tips of the screws should protrude through the tread-nub?...It appears you used shorter screws on the portion of the tire that you'd use when the bike is directly upright and longer screws on the sides of the tire used to corner at angles. Is this the case, or were these screws just worn down?
...Speaking of wear, can you ride these on roads at all, or are you limited to dirt-snow-ice-frozen logs?..

1/28/05 To tell the truth, I forget the size of the screws I used. Basicly I would recommend you allow about 1/8th to 3/16th of an inch to stick out pass the tire knob. If they stick out too much...as RiderX suggested, they will fold over and crack the knob.

You were right about the center knobs...originally the studs were longer but wore down...however they work fine the way they are. ( It's been some time since I made these so I might have used a smaller screw for the center knobs...sorry I can't remember.) * It should be noted that the tire liners take up a lot of space so it's real easy to pinch flat these...ride with care.

If you ride these on paved surfaces, the studs are going to wear down really fast. I would think hard pack dirt/Forest roads would be okay.

[baltodeac]

Thanks to all for the benefit of your experiences. Looks like sleet on Sunday -- I may be crazy but I'm not dumb so I'll be drinking beer and making the tires to try out next weekend.

[martin]

Don't forget to put a layer of duct tape (or similar) between your tire and tube - First time I built mine I threw the tube in like DA and popped it...