Fountainhead conditions 5/31/08

[BillKlineVT]

Hey all,

So I took a trip out to FH yesterday around noon despite the severe thunderstorm and tornado warnings... ended up popping my front inner tube in the parking lot before I even got a chance to ride, which was actually a good thing since it started downpouring/lightning just as I reached Performance in Fairfax to pick up a new tube.

Anyway, drove back out to FH around 4pm, and I was the only one there... being that this was my first time on these trails, I thought I'd just do the first loop to check out the conditions. Believe it or not, I rode the whole trail, and the trails were in surprisingly good shape. No noticeable erosion from the day's rain, and all of the water bars appeared to be doing their job. Shock-A-Billy was a little sketchy, but from what I gather, it always is, haha. Took a nice spill there to confirm the Hill's name (my name is Bill if you didn't get that ;)).

Can't wait to take a run when it's a little more dry - the wet/slippery roots were killing my momentum, not to mention my seat broke about halfway through

-Bill

[MyOtherBrotherL]

WOW - You rode Fountain Head on the same day there were severe Thunder Storms???

And admitted it here???

WOW.........

[g_barr]

WOW.........
Depending on how localized the storms were, their speed/intensity/duration and considering the weather we had previously, it's highly likely the trail signs or trail condition recording might have still indicated the trails were open and they looked rideable. There's no way I would have ridden after seeing the volume of rain in Bethesda on Saturday but it seems Bill had a reasonable plan of attack. "WOW" is registering on the site less than a week ago, having one post (with under 20 views) and having tons of red dots!

So here's some friendly advice Bill... Probably every MORE person is cognizant not to ride muddy trails. Riding wet trails is highly subjective and an emotional issue. Don't be discouraged by the bashing (replies or red dots) you might receive here. My advice is next time don't ride, do some bike maintenance and try to give the trails some drying time.

[DisplacedSunDevil]

At least he wasn't hitting golf balls towards the trails where there were visible riders like some guy and his girlfriend were last friday afternoon...

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Depending on how localized the storms were, their speed/intensity/duration and considering the weather we had previously, it's highly likely the trail signs or trail condition recording might have still indicated the trails were open and they looked rideable. There's no way I would have ridden after seeing the volume of rain ......

I probably should have explained my "WOW" a little more, but being politically correct when it has to do with FH and wet trails in general is not something I'm really good at.

(I don't view my reply as a "Beat Down" but more as a voice of disapproval

And there were a couple of things in his post that raised a few flags.

... ended up popping my front inner tube in the parking lot before I even got a chance to ride, which was actually a good thing since it started downpouring/lightning just as I reached Performance in Fairfax to pick up a new tube.



OK - So the first thing is that he was in Fairfax and it started to pour. After grabbing a tube, he headed back to the Trail Head

....Anyway, drove back out to FH around 4pm, and I was the only one there... being that this was my first time on these trails, I thought I'd just do the first loop to check out the conditions.

The fact that he was the only one there should have been a clue. And I just don't buy the "Check Out The Conditions" excuse. I've been hearing this one for years and I just don't buy it any more. Checking out a trail with such a large erosion problem like FH means walking the trail. Of course FH is MTB only so that can be difficult

...Can't wait to take a run when it's a little more dry - the wet/slippery roots were killing my momentum, not to mention my seat broke about halfway through

-Bill

I know it's not a definitive description of what trail conditions are like but wet and slippery are two "not so good" terms. Breaking his seat?? Bad Karma or was he just riding too heavy for the conditions at hand?

And I have to admit that I'm a little sensitive lately.

1. I'm really nervous about the FH RTP. I wanna hear if we got the 150K or not

2. The amount of riding in Phase IV during wet conditions was astounding. And folks didn't turn around . They'd just ride through and tell me things like, "Man - That trail was bad, I wish I hadn't ridden it twice". or "I heard it was bad, but I just wanted to check it out".

3. Because riders in our area can not stay off of "Wet Trails", FCPA has agreed with IMBA's assessment to armor 5 miles of trail at Laurel Hill. Our local constituency has proven over and over again that we can not be trusted.

So yea - maybe my "WOW" was a little HARSH by MORE standards but maybe it will have some affect.

L

[Dr Phil mmkay]

At least he wasn't hitting golf balls towards the trails where there were visible riders like some guy and his girlfriend were last friday afternoon...

Was this at FH?...talk about your unconventional TTFs...:rolleyes:

[tsteele999]

I live across the reservoir from FH and it didn't rain much here.

[g_barr]

I probably should have explained...You are very right sir - this post should help educate our new rider/reader. I'm also impressed by your restraint earlier (which I did take as disapproval versus a flogging). I am just trying to prevent the kind of red dot fest that ensued after other new users' posted (e.g. CJackson & laxdad).

Bill - there is a FH work day on June 21st if you're interested in learning more!

[MyOtherBrotherL]

I live across the reservoir from FH and it didn't rain much here.

OK - So the main point here is that this is not personal.

The secondary point is that he didn't know that it hadn’t rained much where you lived and he rode anyway (There was 1.4 inches of rain in Springfield).

He stuck his finger in the socket to see if the power was turned off and maybe it was. It's one approach that works well "IF" the power is indeed turned off. It has a shocking response if it's not.

Education is the key to keeping our single track "Single", pristine and open. Fountain Head has already told us that they will no longer open and close the trail conditions sign for us.

We need to police ourselves. I still feel strongly about the intent of my original post. I just can't support giving green dots to a rider who went out right after it rained. Newbie to the forums or not.

[DisplacedSunDevil]

Was this at FH?...talk about your unconventional TTFs...:rolleyes:

It was at FH, that little patch of grass to the right of the trailhead. I thought they were just chipping or something at first, then i realized that one of them had a driver pulled out. I just imagined somebody would ride up to a body and bike on the ground with a golf ball next to the yard sale and wonder what the hell happened, as there is no golf course except for the mini one, and that would have been a hell of a shot with a putter.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

It was at FH, that little patch of grass to the right of the trailhead. I thought they were just chipping or something at first, then i realized that one of them had a driver pulled out. I just imagined somebody would ride up to a body and bike on the ground with a golf ball next to the yard sale and wonder what the hell happened, as there is no golf course except for the mini one, and that would have been a hell of a shot with a putter.

Well, theres a way to remedy that: wear a fullface helmet ;), and keep all stuff in the pack zipped up tightly. Maybe its because I'm still fairly green to the sport but I've never seen anyone yardsale to the truest sense of the word unless they're carrying everything they own in a loosely closed pack. Of course, that goes without saying seeing one in person would be prety interesting.:p

As for Bill Kline, I won't cast a stone his way since I've been guity of riding a wet trail as a noob, ofcourse this was before I participated in trail work days and I can safely say to Bill, do one of those and you'll have a different view point on trail preservation.

I'll try and make it out to the FH work day, although I might head out to Wisp....!

[tsteele999]

I rode FH today, and by rode I mean I pedaled furiously in first gear on every incline and ended up walking when I bumped a root. I bet I averaged 4mph. How can I get so out of shape when I think about riding all the time?

Anyways, trail report:
Tree down on the back side of cardiac hill. Evidence that riders with greater skill than me are riding over it. About 9" or less diameter and suspended a bit.

No soupy mud at all but on the old dead end loop every place where they armored the trail with rocks has mud on either side. Not a big deal and will get smushed down by riders in a day or so anyways. There is a pine tree down just brushing the dead end loop trail too, you can ride around it no problem.

Someone left a pair of New Balance black tennis shoes in the parking lot. I set them on the curb if you were cussing when you got home.

[tsteele999]

Fountain Head has already told us that they will no longer open and close the trail conditions sign for us.
.

Are they still updating the phone line? They should take the sign down if it always says "open".

[BillKlineVT]

WOW is right... didn't know I'd cause such a shitstorm, excuse my french. Sorry if I potentionally "ruined the singletrack"... signs at the park said OPEN and so did the phone lines... so I ASSUMED that the rain that amounted in the area wasn't enough to close the trail.

So any time the trails are wet you're just supposed to turn around and go home? I highly doubt they've dried completely by now, yet when I just called for the trail's conditions... it's still saying OPEN. How often is the phone status updated?

Sorry for being a newb and not knowing the rules... Sure I'll come out for some trail work days, then maybe those who are flaming me can scold me again, lol just kidding.

edit: Also, maybe I missed it, but if there isn't one already there should be a sticky thread in this forum or one of the other main ones for "MORE newbs read me first before riding local trails"... or a sign at the head of the trail or even on the information board that says "don't ride trails when wet/muddy". I read over the Do/Do Not thing on the info board and didn't see anything about not riding trails when wet... just trying to give a little constructive criticism from my viewpoint seeing as I'm getting plenty of it from you all

[BillKlineVT]

so I found this post... http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1785 regarding trail riding etiquette... obviously a little late for me to follow those rules... maybe something to take note of why other people aren't doing the same - not really a forum that I had poked through yet. I can print out a copy of that and post it on the info board at FH next time if needed :confused:

[MyOtherBrotherL]

All in all - I think he took it well................

:eek:

(minus the Gray DOT he gave me as a registered user)

[tuba_transport]

Because riders in our area can not stay off of "Wet Trails", FCPA has agreed with IMBA's assessment to armor 5 miles of trail at Laurel Hill. Our local constituency has proven over and over again that we can not be trusted.

So yea - maybe my "WOW" was a little HARSH by MORE standards but maybe it will have some affect.

L

Publicly chastising one individual on this forum won't help the problem, IMO.

I can tell you that when I first started riding trails in 1991 or so back in Kansas I enjoyed the challenge of slogging through near axle deep soup on the lake trails outside Lawrence, Kansas. Only time I would not ride was if it was actually raining at that moment.

The trails were an interstate wide and DEEPLY rutted in much of it. I took great pride in shoving my now 50lbs mud caked bike back in the backseat of my 1977 Impala and trekking back to campus.

I learned a lot about balance and how to use the rear wheel as a paddle in the lowest gear while churning the butter of the lower sections of trail which handled rain very poorly.

Was I trying to be a dick? Was I thumbing my nose at how the trail MUST have just grown there naturally like ivy? Did I have some kind of rebellious streak in me which wanted to fight the man?

NO.

I honestly thought riding in that mud was part of the sport. I bought all the magazines to drool over the latest Shimano DX shifters and those fancy new 60mm downhill forks. Those same magazines glistened with images of bikers head to foot in mud. Many of the same magazines today show the same ad photos of mud soaked riders.

I was just as cool as they were with my bike so buried in mud at times the wheel simply could not be turned even in the lowest gear and using all my might.

Today I take a different approach. Not because I am older and wiser. But simply because I did not know better until about 2003 or 2004 or so when I joined this forum and MORE and became informed.

The real issue here is that MOST cyclist are NOT advocates. They are simply Joe Blow who just bought his first GT and is ready to conquer the challenges of Wakefield or even better the impossibly difficult Mt. Fountainhead.

They are exactly who I was back in 1991. They are trying to have fun and don't know that trails even require maintenance.

Are some of the riders riding when they DO know better and TRULY understand what kind of efforts went into building trails and repairing damage? Sure, absolutely. But I am not entirely sure this is the case here.

So I say cut this guy a break and concentrate the energy on education on a larger level. The Fountainhead open/close sign and the phone line are an invaluable part of educating people and keeping the trail from getting beat up. I would even wish the closed message would include a short sentence to the effect of.....

"The Fountainhead Regional Mountain Bike Trail is currently closed to prevent trail erosion damage caused by riding bicycles on water soaked trails. Thank you for not riding wet trails."

I understand the phone line and signage are no longer maintained. That is a shame. They can go far in educating. A similiar sign could be at Wakefield which had Green/Yellow/Red conditions marked near the entrance to alert bikers as to the trail conditions. Green is good. Yellow is warning to be aware of wet spots and avoid riding them. Red would be a warning that the trails are too wet to ride overall and a plea for riders to come back at another time.

Putting this info on this website is mostly preaching to the choir. The signs MUST be at the trailheads themselves to really curb the problem of underinformed riders beating up trails.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

Well said Sean. I can empathize with BillKline in that I was the noob you speak of last summer. Reading MORE boards and talking to the guys on here, in person, during work days, rides, and while working on bikes have taught me a lot. But we all need to start from somewhere, and here is as good a place as any.

Welcome to MORE, Bill, I hope you'll get as much knowledge and fun and biking out of this community as I have.












BTW: what's WOW mean?:rolleyes:

[BillKlineVT]

All in all - I think he took it well................

:eek:

(minus the Gray DOT he gave me as a registered user)

glad you think that... and I didn't give out any "dots" so don't blame me... I'm not into the e-rep system so I could care less how many red dots I get on here... theyre about as important as a "gold star" in kindergarten IMHO

To the others that are actually welcoming me and understanding that there's potentially a problem with the communication of trail use, thank you, and I'd be glad to meet up and help work on the trails.

[tombowti]

. . .I honestly thought riding in that mud was part of the sport.Those same magazines glistened with images of bikers head to foot in mud. Many of the same magazines today show the same ad photos of mud soaked riders...

...Today I take a different approach. Not because I am older and wiser. But simply because I did not know better until about 2003 or 2004 or so when I joined this forum and MORE and became informed..


When I first started riding, I too thought riding in mud was part of the sport.

But many years ago, on a wet rainy day at Patapsco, two MOREons were standing in the rain, on a hill, exactly where riders would stall due to the soupy conditions.

They didn’t chide me for riding on the wet trails. Rather, they introduced themselves as MORE members and invited me to the next workday.

So Bill, I like to invite you to the next workday, Saturday, June 21 @ 9:30. (I’ll buy the coffee)~tom

[MyOtherBrotherL]

Look - All my first post said was "WOW - You rode after a rain and then you admitted it???"

And then Glen dragged this out and put me in a position to completely explain myself.

So basically I come across looking like the jerk but the bottom line is “I” didn't ride FH after a rain.

When you go to the grocery store there's not a sign that say's; "Don't sample the food". When you go to the pet store there's not a sign that says, "Don't kick the puppies". There are many many threads on this forum that deplore riding during adverse trail conditions. Keeping these threads as stickies is just not practical. There can’t be signs and rules written about everything. Heck – Most of our signs get torn down anyway.

Education is the key to keeping our trails open and in good shape. Our sport is over 20 years old. At some point certain things have to start being automatic. The bottom line is that less and less people (Percentage wise) are contributing their personal hours to the upkeep of our trail systems.

Fountain Head is a mess and it's gonna take $300, 000.00 dollars to fix. So yes I'm a tad bitter and not a firm believer of the touchy feely way of educating new forum users. I guess I’m in the minority here.

My writing style tends to be blunt and direct, especially when it comes to the upkeep and maintenance of trails. It's obvious that I've turned a few folks off with my constant preaching. Maybe this is just a sign of the next generation of doers in the MTB community. No yelling, no screaming and no preaching. Just self learning through osmosis.

Mountain Bikers are rebels by nature and they hate rules. One of the reasons the Park decided abandon the gate closure policy is because of the blatant disregard for the OPEN/CLOSED signage. Fountain Head is just far enough away for most folks that they feel entitled to ride if they've wasted the gas to get there (HeII - People feel the same way about Wakefield). Would Bill have ridden anyway if the trail marker had been closed??

I don't know - I don't know him.

But go camp out at Wakefield, Fountain Head, Schaeffer, Rosey or Patapsco and see how many folks actually ride in the rain or ride 30 minutes to an hour after the rain.

So - This thread has gone way off the deep end. It's obvious that I'm in the wrong here. I'm no longer on speaking terms with Glen and Tuba. This section of the Forum is dedicated to reporting "Trail Conditions" and that hasn't been done since Bill's first post. I pointed this thread towards the ledge and it's my responsibility to make it stop. I'm gonna lock it before the flames getting any brighter.

If somebody wants to, we can start a new one (same topic) in the Pit.

L