Buying a Digital Camera -- A mountain bikers' perspective.

[Dirt]

Discussion of beginners’ digital cameras:

Hey folks. I thought I’d start this conversation here since I’ve been asked by many club members about getting a digital camera. I know this is a little off topic for a mountain biking board, but since a lot of us photograph during rides, I don’t think it is too far off base.

Good sources of information:

My favorite source of information is my local camera store. I’m not a fan of Circuit City or Best Buy for buying cameras. If you’re going to invest more than $100 in a camera, you should buy it from a camera store. I don’t buy cameras over the internet either. You miss out on a lot of things by doing so. Digital cameras have so many nuances that you can’t really get the feel for how one works by reading a review. What is the shutter lag like? How fast is the auto focus? Can I navigate the menus intuitively? These are all things that people can tell you about in a review, but you can’t get a feel for unless you hold the camera in your hand.

My personal favorite shop is Dominion Camera in Falls Church. They’re a tiny, family owned camera shop that carries all the best stuff and has a decent selection of used equipment too. (Though the used equipment is often high end older stuff that is a bit more esoteric).

I’ve also had good luck with Penn Camera in Tysons, Springfield or Downtown. I’ve found it helps a lot more to really know a lot before going into Penn. I don’t have that problem with Dominion.

Both shops sell cameras, printers, paper, ink, books and pretty much any accessory you could ever want.

That said, there are some great resources on the web for information about cameras and reviews. Digital Photography Review (http://www.dpreview.com/) is one of my favorite sites. CNET (http://reviews.cnet.com/Digital_cameras/2001-6501_7-0.html?tag=cnetfd.dir) has a very good site also.

[Dirt]

What to look for in a camera?

If this is your first digital camera, ease of use is definitely high on the list. Not only ease of operating the camera, but also ease of getting the photos onto your computer. If you’re a computer geek like me, the second part doesn’t seem like such a big deal, but it can be. We’ll talk about software for cataloging your photos another time.

What kind of digital media does your camera use? Digital media is the digital camera equivalent of film. It is the stuff that images are stored on. New cameras these days mostly use either SD cards or Compact Flash. Compact Flash is the older standard, but is still used by most cameras today. New and smaller cameras have switched to SD because the cards are roughly the size of a small postage stamp. Either works great and can be used effectively for digital photography. I started with digital photography before SD was around, so I use CF cards. I also like that you can get them with higher capacity (up to 8 gig these days) and they tend to be cheaper. As a side note, Digital media is one of the only things that I buy for my camera on-line.

Shutter Lag: The biggest complaint about digital cameras in comparison to film is shutter lag. There is a small amount of time between when you press the shutter and when the photo is taken. This varies by camera and has greatly been eliminated in higher end cameras.

Why do you get shutter lag? A film camera doesn’t have to do much calculating before it can snap the photo. It looks at how much light there is and how far away the subject is and then fires off the shutter. A digital camera has a lot more work to do. It has a lot of calculations to do in order to capture the image appropriately. Some cameras are faster at this than others. The only way to find out what shutter lag is like is to play with a camera.

There are ways to get around shutter lag. There is a technique called “half pressing” the shutter that photographers do with most cameras… film or digital. If you press the shutter release button half way down on an automatic camera, it auto focuses, sets the exposure and does all the calculations you need for taking the photo. When all this is done and you’re happy with how the photo is framed, you press the shutter down the other half of the way and the photo takes almost instantly. There are a few models of camera that still have a delay of half a second or so, but most digital cameras fire off almost instantly when you have set up the exposure and auto focus ahead of time with a half press.

Start-up time: It can take as much as 15-20 seconds for your camera to be ready to shoot after you turn it on. Make sure you test that in the store and see if you’re able to deal with the amount of start up time the camera has. Some are very good, others are amazingly bad.

Megapixels: It is funny that I don’t talk about Megapixels (or MP) until this far down in the discussion when EVERY freaking camera ad puts that first. Getting a camera that is easy to use and works well for you is more important than how good the resolution is on a camera. The number of MP that a camera can record determines how big the photograph can be enlarged. In general, 3MP cameras make great 4x6 prints, 4MP cameras make great 5x7 prints, 5MP cameras make great 8x10s and so on. That said, I have some pretty amazing 13x18” prints that I took with my 3MP Canon a few years back. A lot has to do with how you process the photos and how good your software is. 5mp now seems to be the standard for point and shoot cameras.

Optical Zoom: This is what allows you to make small objects in the lens look bigger. Optical zoom is done by adjusting the glass elements of the lens and doesn’t affect the resolution of the photo that comes out the other side. Point and shoot cameras measure optical zoom in degrees of magnification. By that I mean that the manufacturers talk about 3x optical zoom. That means that you can enlarge an object 3 times using the optical zoom. Minolta now has a camera out that does 10x optical zoom. Though this is nice, most casual photographers and many really good photographers can’t hold a camera still enough to get a good image at more than 5x optical zoom. Above that you need a tripod.

FPS (Frames Per Second). Lots of mountain biking photos involve action shots. Many point and shoot digital cameras let you shoot as many as 2 frames per second. That makes for great action shots. Play with this in the store before you buy the camera. Get the sales person to show you how it works. See if the way it works makes sense to you. Higher end cameras shoot faster and take less time to recover from a series of shots. Most point and shoot cameras need 30-90 seconds to recover from shooting a series of high resolution photos.

[Dirt]

Things that are useless on a digital camera:

Digital zoom is completely useless. Many cameras don’t even include it anymore. Digital zoom just uses the center of the image sensor in the camera, thus giving you an image that appears larger, but has much lower resolution. A 5MP photograph taken with 2x digital zoom is essentially something around the size of a 2-3MP photograph. You get a bigger image of something, but at the expense of resolution.

Some good cameras to look at:

All this talk about different features to look at in a camera is neat, but you want to know what cameras I like.

I’m a Canon guy. I admit it. I like the way they write their manuals. Their software works better than the other systems I’ve used. I played with a few new cameras that I liked. Here are some to read about and look at:

Canon Powershot A95. It sells for between $300 and $400 and has really good reviews.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona95/

The Pentax Optio SV is pretty dang nice too:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_optiosv.asp

That should get you started. Post up and let me know what you think and what questions you have. There are a lot of really good photographers on this board.

[bcaverly]

Another web resource for reviews tha I find very useful is www.megapixels.net - they don't sell anything, and their reviews are very thorough. What's more, all the reviews follow a very standard format and use very similar if not the same scenes for the sample images - makes it very easy to compare the reviews of one camera against another. I agree with Peter that there is nothing like trying it out for yourself - but this site has the next best thing.

I have an Olympus C750. This is a point and shoot 4MP camera that can be fully manual if I ever took the time to read the user guide and learn all it can do. It does a such a great job in "idiot" mode most of the time that I've had little insentive to learn how to use it's advanced capabilities. One downside - it's shutter lag is longer than many other cameras (that try it yourself thing) but on the plus side it does have a 10x optical zoom. Yes it is hard to hold a camera steady enough to use 10x but it can be done - though I have a little 6" table top tripod I carry that is great to set up on rocks, fence posts, etc. - quick, light and compact. This camera also does a fabulous job in low light with no flash.

[Dobbs]

I have been using a Sony Cybershot-U / DSC-U30. It has no zoom, but the 2 megapixel quality is really great. The best part is that it is small enough to go into any pocket of a jersey. It is smaller than a cell phone. I bought it at Sears, on sale at $149. They usually go for $199 everywhere else. My bro, who is a digital camera near-expert, bought one several years ago, and he still carries it on rides and gets fine shots with it. Anyone who would like to see a sample is welcome to e-mail me at boobazaazoo@yahoo.com. I'll send some. It'll give me something to do until the ground dries out.
Dobbs

[Dirt]

Good info.

I'll back up the size matters comment. I think I'm the only person that I know who carries a camera with me that cares more about performance than size. I know, I'm a freak. Since I want to be a photographer when I grow up, it is more important to me to have a faster and higher resolution camera with me. I carry a full sized digital SLR with me when I ride. For normal humans, having something small and easy to carry is the best bet.

There are many camera pouches that will attach nicely to the shoulder strap of your camel back. It is an easy way to carry your camera and a good way to keep it safe and easy to access.

Great posts you guys. Lets keep it coming.

Peter

[chunk]

i just got a cannnn a95 just before x-mas and i love it. i chose the a95 because you can use one of the many preprogrammed scenes or go completely manual. the size also felt good in my hands and the 5 mp works well for 8.5 x 11 prints. here are a few pictures taken with it.

http://www.fullcircleva.com/brian/images/obstacles.jpg
http://www.fullcircleva.com/brian/IMG_0080_new.html
http://www.fullcircleva.com/brian/IMG_0077_new.html

i will echo what peter said about shutter lag. its the biggest pain when shooting with digital. for action shots i like to focus on an object equal distance to my subject and then wait for them to enter the frame. the a95 also has a 'kids and pets' preprogrammed scene which i think speeds things up a bit.

[jks9199]

i will echo what peter said about shutter lag. its the biggest pain when shooting with digital. for action shots i like to focus on an object equal distance to my subject and then wait for them to enter the frame. the a95 also has a 'kids and pets' preprogrammed scene which i think speeds things up a bit.

Shutter lag on a digital camera takes some getting used to. The best advice I can offer is to go and play. After all, it's not like you're going to use up film! I've seen some things that would have been great shots -- but someone moved the camera before the picture had really been taken. (I may try to use mine and deliberately create a few as an example later today.)

Jim

[Dirt]

Shutter lag on a digital camera takes some getting used to. The best advice I can offer is to go and play. After all, it's not like you're going to use up film! I've seen some things that would have been great shots -- but someone moved the camera before the picture had really been taken. (I may try to use mine and deliberately create a few as an example later today.)

Jim

I'm definitely spoiled now. After shooting with a digital SLR for 4 months now, I went back to a point and shoot for a few shots yesterday afternoon. It took me a little while to get used to the lag again. The half-press technique works well with most cameras that I've used. There was a Minolta Dimage that I used for a weekend that wouldn't shoot when you wanted no matter what you did. Most others will fire off almost instantly from the half-pressed position.

Thanks for the comments folks. Chunk, its good to hear that you're enjoying your A95. I played with one in the camera store last week and I'm thinking of getting one for a bash-around camera. Its between that and the G6. We have to see how my bonus is this year and what kind of love uncle sam has for me.

Take care,

Peter

[rotaylo2]

Howdy, I don't know if this thread is still active, but I have been riding with a casio exlim camera for several years. It is a super tiny camera line, which I heartily recommend. I originally had the ex-m2 - which was a 2.1 MP camera with no digital zoom, but the camera itself was .5x 2.5x 1.75 inches. This meant that I could keep it in a cell phone pocket on the strap of my camelbak, always ready to whip out at a moments notice. It also had a video feature which was very cool - have posted some videos of the mb training class from this summer with it on here - search my nick for the links. I recently lost this camera, so I bought another casio exlim - the ex-s100 which does have an optical zoom, no shutter lag (one of the fastest digitals around), is the same size, and has no limitaiton on the length of videos (the older models had a 30 second limit). The pictures are very good, though probably not as good as an SLR, but my philosopy is that you have to *have* the camera with you to take the shots. The small size should not be underestimated. As an aside.. all my friends have these cameras after seeing mine.. You can see them at Circut city, but I'd buy them online.

hope that helps.

r.

[Dirt]

Cool info. I've been looking for a new point and shoot for those times I don't want to haul the full rig around.

I'll look at the exlim.

Pete

[skiandmtb]

You should look at the SD300 from Canon--small, 4MP, good quality. I had the S330, and upgraded and downsized. It's in my pocket most of the time for work and play.

www.dpreview.com is a great website for reviews...pretty unbiased.

LJ

[Dirt]

You should look at the SD300 from Canon--small, 4MP, good quality. I had the S330, and upgraded and downsized. It's in my pocket most of the time for work and play.

www.dpreview.com is a great website for reviews...pretty unbiased.

LJ

I use DP Review all the time. Thanks.

Pete

[drewdane]

I'll look at the exlim.

Pete
I've got one you can borrow if you want.

[Dirt]

I've got one you can borrow if you want.

Thanks Drew.

I'm gonna pass though. I'd feel bad if I smashed it. That is a real possibility the way I ride. ;)

Talk to you soon.

Pete

[Squirrel Girl]

Since Drew broke my camera on Sunday (or something like that--it didn't record the movie I tried to take of him blasting through a stream) ;)

Yesterday I went out over lunch and bought a Canon A510 which I think of as a point and shoot. It replaces the broken Canon S40.

It's not the tiniest of the tiny, but it's smaller, it went down from 4 to 3 MP, but went up from 3X to 4X zoom. I still get movies with sound. AA batteries (great for travel). Got a little case that'll hook to my camelbak strap.

Since the only purpose of this camera is to put pix up on my website, there's no need for more than 3MP. I got to try it out on the Cherry Blossoms last evening.

Keep postin' regarding cameras. I'm still shopping for a nice camera for the next photogenic trip I take.

[drewdane]

Thanks Drew.

I'm gonna pass though. I'd feel bad if I smashed it. That is a real possibility the way I ride. ;)

Talk to you soon.

Pete
Suit yourself - it was a gift, and I never use it.

FWIW, I don't care for it (thus my not using it). It only has digital zoom, and its "natural" range only seems to be ~10 feet out. Good for snapshots at the family BBQ, not so good for catching people riding along 20 feet down the trail from you.