Light options

[denhamcla]

My Buddies and I were planning on building some LED light systems to get a little night riding in after work. I would love to know if anyone has tried this around here and might have some helpful hints. This will be our first attempt at night riding so i'm not sure what the norm is. One bar, one helmet? Thats where we'd like to start, or 2 bar two helmet since led's are cheap when they're DIY. Also if anyone has a consumer model that they find outstanding and usable around here within 250$ Or advice on a great endurance battery pack, I'd love to know about it! Thanks in advance guys!

[eloach]

Go to MTBR.com and read the reviews. They are dead on.

I have several lights.

The DiNotte 600L is the best I have used (it comes with two seperate 3.5 hour batteries).

I also have a MOAB and another NR HID and assorted lesser lights.

After the DiNotte I would say Cygolite and Light In Motion are the best things on the market. The Light in Motion Ultra Arc L-ion is probably about the best light on the market, but it cost a LOT and is not discounted often.

Things to keep in mind:
HID bulbs are more fragile and cost $100, but IMO, they work better than anything else for throwing a long, focused beam from the helmet.

LED lights need less juice, so the batteries are lighter and have a longer run time.

Lumens: You really need about 180 Lumes (Like the LM Stella) to ride a trail, IMO. Perhaps younger guys can get by with less, but I think 180 is a good minimum unless you plan to ride very slowly.

Light in Motion, DiNotte and Cygolite all make LED lights that are at least 180 lumens in the price range you mentioned. Other than the fun factor, I can't see any reason to build a light that will compare poorly with the above three and cost at least 70% of what you can find those lights for. The real key is battery quality and the seals on the entire system. It's really hard to build something as light weight as the three above.

Generally, put your lesser light on the bar and focus it near field, and put your better light on the helmet and focus it farther down stream. I was told this and ignored it. When I eventually switched my setup to that configuration, it made a huge difference. The angle that your strong light hits the ground at has a large effect on shadowing and depth perception when you are using a "white" light like a HID or LED. IMO, if it is on the bar and more parallel to the ground the depth perception is much worse than when it is on your helmet and the angle to the ground in more pronounced.

[BikerMiker]

Screw LED and HID. Halogen is it! Sure it's less efficient or whatever, but nothing lights up the greens and browns of the trail and foliage like halogen. LED and HID is all blue and sucks. I hate it. I have been racing for almost 10 years off-road and 2007 was my first year with HID and I'm out. My y2k Niterider Digital 12/20 is where it's at.

Sure, why listen to me? I was the team captain for the 2007 Granny Gear Expert Champion team from DCMTB.com.

Niterider, among others, have gotten out of the halogen business in the interest of... not sure. All I know is that the blue/white light of HID/LED is not for me. I'll be the guy with the old Niterider on the bar. Screw that helmet stuff, it ain't for me. The depth perception is absent if you can't SEE the shadows. I know that everybody swears by helmet lights but these people are always the ones that look right at you on a night ride with their helmet lights STILL ON, killing your night-vision and blinding you.

And I think that DIY on this stuff is nuts, but I have less time on my hands than most people. Spend as much $$, way more time and depend on yourself for trouble-shooting and warraty service? You can have it.

Let us know how it goes...

Hugs and kisses...

mike

[CRAIG2]

Ya' know, I'm with Mike on the halogen. I purchased an LED helmet system a year or so back, and the really white light is a little weird. The beam pattern was a little narrow, too, I thought. The upside was that they LED is pretty efficient, and you'd get a 5 hour burntime.

I've got a NiteRider Trail Rat that's been great. I normally go helment mount, try not to blind my friends (or, actually, just people on the trails), but ideally I'd say use both. With only a handlebar mount, your field of vision is usually more limited to the motion of the handlebar. With one on your head, well, I'm sure you can see the added advantage.

Halogen is good light. Not super bling anymore, but it works.

But, you'll see, you'll get 10 more responses here pro-HID, 10 more pro-LED, yadda yadda...

[DaveG]

Sure, why listen to me? I was the team captain for the 2007 Granny Gear Expert Champion team from DCMTB.com.

Damn, don't pull anything patting yourself on the back so hard :eek::p

[crack monkey]

I'll be converting my NiteRider TrailRat to a single high-output LED as soon as it's no longer night-ride season. This should increase output a bit and increase run-time on the same battery. Not because of any problem, I just want to tinker and maybe get the longer runtime.

I also use a L&M Stella 180L on my helmet. As noted, the color is weird - not natural looking with the white/blue tint. But, the runtime and output is fantastic for a system of that weight.

[tuba_transport]

My Buddies and I were planning on building some LED light systems to get a little night riding in after work.

Screw LED and HID. Halogen is it!

...

Sure, why listen to me? I was the team captain for the 2007 Granny Gear Expert Champion team from DCMTB.com.

For the buddies to get a little night riding in, you might have different desires/needs than the 2007 champ. All Hail!

DIY has serious pride and table talk value. Post up the results!!!

[jabberwocky]

I much prefer the white light of HID/LED lights. My halogen never gets used. Plus, halogen lights are essentially space heaters that happen to give off light as a byproduct. Their efficiency sucks.

The new generation LED lights are where its at. Dinotte 600l or NR Minewt/Trinewt is what I would get if I was in the market right now.

[CRAIG2]

Hmmm.... I think mine would make for a pretty crappy spaceheater. But, then again, we skinny people get cold pretty quickly. ;)

[DaveG]

Ya' know, I'm with Mike on the halogen. I purchased an LED helmet system a year or so back, and the really white light is a little weird. The beam pattern was a little narrow, too, I thought. The upside was that they LED is pretty efficient, and you'd get a 5 hour burntime.

I've got a NiteRider Trail Rat that's been great. I normally go helment mount, try not to blind my friends (or, actually, just people on the trails), but ideally I'd say use both. With only a handlebar mount, your field of vision is usually more limited to the motion of the handlebar. With one on your head, well, I'm sure you can see the added advantage.

Halogen is good light. Not super bling anymore, but it works.

But, you'll see, you'll get 10 more responses here pro-HID, 10 more pro-LED, yadda yadda...

I have piss poor night vision, so when I cranked up the halogens enough for me to be able to see, the burn time was much less than two hours.
I actually _do_ find that the HID light washes out the trail details a bit for me, but I love knowing that I have 4+ hours of light. No worries.

I'd say that I slightly prefer the light from a helmet/handlebar halogen setup, but I vastly prefer the run time and the ability to get by w/ one light that the HID gives me.

Also, I've found that the L&M HID's are much more comfortable for helmet use. The NR's are SO freaking heavy and they sit forward so it's a lot of pressure. Poor design IMO.

[CRAIG2]

I have piss poor night vision, so when I cranked up the halogens enough for me to be able to see, the burn time was much less than two hours.
I actually _do_ find that the HID light washes out the trail details a bit for me, but I love knowing that I have 4+ hours of light. No worries.

I'd say that I slightly prefer the light from a helmet/handlebar halogen setup, but I vastly prefer the run time and the ability to get by w/ one light that the HID gives me.

Also, I've found that the L&M HID's are much more comfortable for helmet use. The NR's are SO freaking heavy and they sit forward so it's a lot of pressure. Poor design IMO.

Excellent point. I'm rarely in shape enough to go for much more than 1 - 1.5 hrs, so the additional burn time is a novelty for me. Granted, it's comforting to meet up for a ride, forgotten to have charged your light after the last ride, and think 'no worries'. And, if you're racing, I'm sure there are other benefits to HID, LED, etc.

I have a sufficient light, though, for my needs, and I can think of better ways I'd like to spend $200-300. ;)

[ChrisJ]

I just got my Lights and Motion Stella 180-N in today. 190$ from UniversalCycles. Gonna be testing it out tomorrow night at Wakefield.


I run a helmet light, have a digital headtrip but the connection at the battery is going out. I also run a barlight its a NiteRider Classic dual beam. I have a spare battery for it for the 12/24s we are planning on doing this season.

[jvanbrecht]

The newer generation of LED lights being used (by venders and DIYers) give off the same light spectrum as Halogen. They are however not cheap.

I personally prefer the bright white light of the HID, however I do recognise the fact that it does wash out some of the details of the trail.

[BikerMiker]

Ouch. I was just saying. I'm proud of myself (obviously) as I've never really won that many races and winning in 07 was a big goal of me, matty, jofo, wheaton, viers, baake and the rest of the team. I'm lucky to have the chance to pull it off and I don't have to afraid to mention it.

Jeez. I thought we were all on the same team. I guess I have to take it on the chin. No worries. 15 years in this goofy industry is worth something. Not sure what...

Go halogen. Go handlebar. Go buy a light and go ride.

mike

[Dirt]

Screw LED and HID. Halogen is it! Sure it's less efficient or whatever, but nothing lights up the greens and browns of the trail and foliage like halogen.
Damn, I need to check my medication. I find myself agreeing with BikerMiker more often these days. I started making semi-regular pilgrimages to City Bikes to buy stuff for my road bike and I think they drugged me or something. ;)

What was I gonna say?

Oh yeah.. Halogen. If I'm riding alone, I completely agree with BM (I know he's gonna love that new nickname). It gives much better depth perception.

To redeem myself, my individuality and ability to think for myself, I am going to disagree with Mike too. If you're riding in a group and you're the only one with halogen lights and everyone else has HIDs, it SUCKS!!!! The power of their lights throws my depth perception completely off and I can't see shit. SOOoooo.... When I ride solo, I use the old halogen lights. When I ride in a group, I use the HIDs and LEDs.

Love,

Pete

[riderx]

Screw LED and HID. Halogen is it! Ugggggh, you can have your halogen. I spent this winter riding HID, then halogen for an extended period while the HID was back for repair, then back to the HID. HID wins for me hands down. I spent many years on halogens, from the earliest Vistas probably a dozen years ago to multiple Nite Rider setups. I don't miss them. I've been on the HID for several years now and it's been the right choice for me. No problems with type of light it throws, I actually prefer it to the halogen. Handlebar set up for both BTW.

We need two decent light setups now that my wife wants to do some night riding, so I just burned my REI bucks on a Dinotte 600L. We'll see how the powerhouse LED stacks up in the equation.

[philvw]

To actually answer the question you asked instead of getting in a pi$$ing contest. (http://www.instructables.com/id/Ultimate-Night-Vision-Headlamp---500%2b-lumens-with-/)

[rciracing]

The new generation LEDs are nice. I recently bought the NR Trinewt LED and it is as bright as the NR HID. Seems like the way of the future.

I have a new Cateye Tripleshot LED for sale if anyone wants a 180 lumen LED. I recently sent my old one to Cateye for service and they ended up replacing everything so it is brand new. - Paid $300 for this a year and a half ago but will sell for $200 OBO.

[jabberwocky]

Jeez. I thought we were all on the same team. I guess I have to take it on the chin. No worries. 15 years in this goofy industry is worth something. Not sure what...Don't worry Mike. You are opinionated and (slightly) arrogant sometimes but we love you for it. Don't ever change. ;)

We need two decent light setups now that my wife wants to do some night riding, so I just burned my REI bucks on a Dinotte 600L. We'll see how the powerhouse LED stacks up in the equation.I'd love to know what you think of the 600L when you get it. My L&M HID is probably on its final legs (it has 2 years of Wakefield rides plus 2 complete winters of commuting) and I'm looking to replace it this fall. The 600L is on my short list of replacements. I have their tailight, and while I love the light itself, the mounting system is the stupidest one I've ever seen on a light. It looks like the 600L has a real mount though.

[Dirt]

The new generation LEDs are nice. I recently bought the NR Trinewt LED and it is as bright as the NR HID. Seems like the way of the future.

I have a new Cateye Tripleshot LED for sale if anyone wants a 180 lumen LED. I recently sent my old one to Cateye for service and they ended up replacing everything so it is brand new. - Paid $300 for this a year and a half ago but will sell for $200 OBO.
I've got a Princeton Tec Singletrack... the 2-led system. It is really nice and rock solid. I use it as my handlebar light. The only complaint I have is that the battery strap that came with it is CRAP. It broke the first time I tried to use it. I just took the strap off of my old NR system. Works like a dream.

For group rides, the combo of the Princeton Tec on the handlebars and the Light and Motion HID on the head is the best that I've used. That combo is damn expensive though. It is weird riding with a lighting setup that costs more than 4 times what I paid for my new road frame. ;)

Pete

[riderx]

I'd love to know what you think of the 600L when you get it. My L&M HID is probably on its final legs (it has 2 years of Wakefield rides plus 2 complete winters of commuting) and I'm looking to replace it this fall. My HID is the L&M, so I'll be able to give you a side by side comparison.

[SteveM]

I just ordered the parts for this DIY LED handlebar-mounted light:

http://www.racedaynutrition.com/features/bikelight.aspx#28

This particular design is cleaner than most DIY setups I had seen on the web, and the instructions on the site are clear and complete. I can't justify a $200 to $300 light system at this time, so the $80 to $100 (including handlebar mount) for this setup is much more attractive to me. I went LED as I want a bright light (240 lumens with three LEDs) that's simple to build to help me get started on 12 hour races (the upcoming Leesburg Bakers Dozen being my first race). I also am looking forward to the build itself, so the DIY part is not an impediment.

SteveM

[dirtychain]

I would love to know if anyone has tried this around here and might have some helpful hints.

There was a dude on some of the Patapsco Night Rides that used a home made LED light. It was surprisingly bright and the battery was minescule. He said they were easy to assemble and he was considering trying to sell a few through the MORE board. Unfortunately I don't recall his name:confused:
Perhaps he, or someone else that was on those rides will post up.

Good luck and keep us posted on your project.

L8R, Scott

[eloach]

Ugggggh, you can have your halogen. I spent this winter riding HID, then halogen for an extended period while the HID was back for repair, then back to the HID. HID wins for me hands down. I spent many years on halogens, from the earliest Vistas probably a dozen years ago to multiple Nite Rider setups. I don't miss them. I've been on the HID for several years now and it's been the right choice for me. No problems with type of light it throws, I actually prefer it to the halogen. Handlebar set up for both BTW.

We need two decent light setups now that my wife wants to do some night riding, so I just burned my REI bucks on a Dinotte 600L. We'll see how the powerhouse LED stacks up in the equation.

You will like that light. The throw is not as far as a HID and is wider that my MOAB. With the MOAB on top of the helmet for long range and the DiNotte on the bar it's about like an auto headlight. I got mine with the REI dividend as well. I have also discovered the DiNotte is now selling online as well from their WWW site.
I might pick up a 200L for my road bike because I am so impressed with the 600L.

I ran the battery 3+ hours first time out and never got a "low" indicator.

[eloach]

Don't worry Mike. You are opinionated and (slightly) arrogant sometimes but we love you for it. Don't ever change. ;)

I'd love to know what you think of the 600L when you get it. My L&M HID is probably on its final legs (it has 2 years of Wakefield rides plus 2 complete winters of commuting) and I'm looking to replace it this fall. The 600L is on my short list of replacements. I have their tailight, and while I love the light itself, the mounting system is the stupidest one I've ever seen on a light. It looks like the 600L has a real mount though.

Yes the 600L has a real mount for the bar, and it's decent. The helmet mount appears to be so-so, but I have not tired it yet. I was thinking of buying the tail light. The mount sucks, eh? That's kind of a big factor the way I commute. I have busted a few lousy mounts and lost the lights. The 200 tail light is a bit expensive to loose.

The 600L is brighter and wider than my MOAB but does not "throw" as far. However, the light is also much more "even" and the color is also a little better.

[jabberwocky]

My HID is the L&M, so I'll be able to give you a side by side comparison.That would be awesome. I'm more worried about the mounts than anything else. One thing I love about the L&M is it comes with excellent, usable helment and bar mounts. I run the light mounted on the bar commuting, and on the helmet for mtbing.

Yes the 600L has a real mount for the bar, and it's decent. The helmet mount appears to be so-so, but I have not tired it yet. I was thinking of buying the tail light. The mount sucks, eh? That's kind of a big factor the way I commute. I have busted a few lousy mounts and lost the lights. The 200 tail light is a bit expensive to loose. I don't think you are likely to lose the taillight, its just hard to keep the damn thing pointed where you want. They use o-rings wrapped around the light, and then to a mounting peice which is then in turn o-ringed to the seatpost (I can take pics to show you if you want, or you can look it up on Dinottes website). The problem is that o-rings just don't hold the light very well when you ride on bumpy pavement, and sometimes I get to work and the light is pointed 30 degrees off to the side or something. Its manageable, just not that great. I wish they provided a real mount rather than the stupid o-rings.

I also use a cateye ld-1000 as a blinky which has a more conventional mount. Its harder to remove (requires a screwdriver) but it stays in place and doesn't move when riding.

[g_barr]

To actually answer the question you asked instead of getting in a pi$$ing contest.
Party pooper. Your signature, "It's like Déjà vu, all over again.", is quite appropriate in this case though. Maybe there should be a seperate forum for Lights and one for Tires. :)

If you're riding in a group and you're the only one with halogen lights and everyone else has HIDs, it SUCKS!!!! The power of their lights throws my depth perception completely off and I can't see sh...
I agree. I loaned my 10W Trail Rat at a MORE ride and I felt so bad about the rider having to run it with HIDs and LEDs that I went out and bought a second NR Sol. I also agree with BM and C2 about halogen - it's nice light (except they get dimmer with age) and I ran it alone for 4-5 years. Now my preferred set-up is the Trail Rat on the bars and a Sol on my helmet. This gives a better color balance and you can go faster without overrunning your light (a problem I have with 10 watts).

You can try tinted lenses to improve HID/LED color. For example, Oakley's High Intensity Yellow with 86-percent light transmission would "warm" the blue light and improve the contrast.

[punga]

I'll be converting my NiteRider TrailRat to a single high-output LED as soon as it's no longer night-ride season. This should increase output a bit and increase run-time on the same battery. Not because of any problem, I just want to tinker and maybe get the longer runtime....
Tell me more about this? Did you find a conversion kit somewhere?

p!

[RubberSideDown]

Just put the sun on your head and be done with them all....

http://cgi.ebay.com/LUPINE-BETTY-12-LUPINE-PEPPI-BRAND-NEW-2008-Model_W0QQitemZ140218098403QQihZ004 QQcategoryZ22689QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

1400 Lumens?????:eek:

You can give your fellow riders a sun burn on the trail while your at it.

[langer]

Just put the sun on your head and be done with them all....

http://cgi.ebay.com/LUPINE-BETTY-12-LUPINE-PEPPI-BRAND-NEW-2008-Model_W0QQitemZ140218098403QQihZ004 QQcategoryZ22689QQssPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

1400 Lumens?????:eek:

You can give your fellow riders a sun burn on the trail while your at it.

Holy schnikes! That's absurd...could probably spot you from the space shuttle. :eek:
Costs a pretty penny though. I picked up a niterider moab on ebay for about 360 last week...should be plenty bright for me.
-jon

[kevin29r]

Here is the best lighting comparison I've seen for LED lights. You may need to allow popups to load the web page. Have fun rolling over the high and low power links!

http://bikemag.com/gear/accessories/LED_Light_Test_1

Other links:

http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/2007/09/trinewt-and-600l-beam-shots.html

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/category/lights-shootout/

[kdweb]

Home brew can be a good fit and good luck there SteveM..I build my homee lamp around a 3 watt Maglite LED blub ( 16,200 PBC ..sorry, no lumen rating) but I just read something that was kinda odd..only use alkiline batteries? No lithium or lith-ion or ni-cad? Anybody got any thing on this? DC voltage has flavors?:confused: I recall someone out there in More-land was a battery expert.....anyone....Bueller? Bueller?

[wrench177]

Tell me more about this? Did you find a conversion kit somewhere?

p!
P!, haven't you seen the others threads talking about this? I converted one of my Night Pro's over to LED and I've been talking with RiderX helping him do the same with one of his NightRider lights. Here's (http://www.more-mtb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9753&highlight=conversion&page=2) the thread.

The kit I used was from Cutter (http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut731&cat=41) with the purchase of a different 35mm optic (http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut562) to fit in an MR11 housing. If you go this route, use a narrow optic (spot) because a single LED really needs to be concentrated into a focused beam to be effective. Triple LED's throw out so much light they can configured into a wider beam pattern.

Woo hoo, I love a good light thread. :D

Wrench Out!

[wrench177]

Home brew can be a good fit and good luck there SteveM..I build my homee lamp around a 3 watt Maglite LED blub ( 16,200 PBC ..sorry, no lumen rating) but I just read something that was kinda odd..only use alkiline batteries? No lithium or lith-ion or ni-cad? Anybody got any thing on this? DC voltage has flavors?:confused: I recall someone out there in More-land was a battery expert.....anyone....Bueller? Bueller?
From what I've read about the Mag light conversion kits is each one is designed for a certain number of cells, usually 2 or 3. This is because the driver has to be programmed to either "boost" or "buck" the forward voltage.....I think. I know this is how it works with the larger, more programmable drivers. I don't think the driver cares what type of battery you are using, Li-Ion, NiMh or alkaline. All the driver needs is to be of the appropriate variety for the voltage requirements of the emitter and the output of the battery.

If you are using a single, high power emitter the fV (forward voltage) is around 3.7 volts. Add about 1 volt for the driver requirements and you are looking at a total of 4.7 volts. If you are converting an old 6 volt bike light, you will need to use a "buck" style driver. This driver acts as a resistor and regulates the 6 volts of the battery to a constant 1000ma required for the LED. Now, if you are using alkaline batteries, let's say 2, they put out 3 volts when used in series. The fV for the LED needs to be 4.7 volts, so, you will need a "boost" style driver. These act as a type of capacitor and will increase the voltage and provide the regulated 1000ma required by the emitter.

I hope some of this helps.

[kdweb]

From what I've read about the Mag light conversion kits is each one is designed for a certain number of cells, usually 2 or 3. This is because the driver has to be programmed to either "boost" or "buck" the forward voltage.....I think. I know this is how it works with the larger, more programmable drivers. I don't think the driver cares what type of battery you are using, Li-Ion, NiMh or alkaline. All the driver needs is to be of the appropriate variety for the voltage requirements of the emitter and the output of the battery.
.

Kinda helps...so when you say"programmed" I take that to mean "set"...ie: not changing or able to change. Is that right? IOW, I cannot put one of these drivers in line and stick 6 volts from any battery source to this 2 cell Mag light LED bulb? With my questionable foundation in electronics, these drivers sound sorta like some kind of a specialized Zener Diode set up exclusivly for LEDs.

[wrench177]

Kinda helps...so when you say"programmed" I take that to mean "set"...ie: not changing or able to change. Is that right? IOW, I cannot put one of these drivers in line and stick 6 volts from any battery source to this 2 cell Mag light LED bulb?
Some drivers, like the one from TaskLed, can be programmed to have multiple output levels, flash speeds and how to control the on/off switch. This is all done at their shop, but, can be modified by experienced people with the proper equipment. I believe it's a lot like programming a ROM chip with firmware. Once the basic program is set, you cannot change it on the fly. So no, if you buy an LED made for a 2 cell Mag light, you are restricted to the amount of forward voltage you can put to the LED.

You need to know in advance whether you are going to be boosting or bucking the LED. How many LED's do you want to use and what is the voltage output of your battery?

This guy (http://bikeled.org/) has been a wealth of information to me. I've seen many other "DIYer's" but this guy doesn't use specialized CNC milling and his instructions are easy to follow.

With my questionable foundation in electronics, these drivers sound sorta like some kind of a specialized Zener Diode set up exclusivly for LEDs.
If your foundation is questionable then mine is non-existent because I have no idea about what you just said. :D I have a complete layman's knowledge of this stuff. I don't have any formal background in electronics or engineering. Everything I know is from reading many, many threads at the various forums and piecing together a working knowledge of these lights.

[SteveM]

Home brew can be a good fit and good luck there SteveM..I build my homee lamp around a 3 watt Maglite LED blub ( 16,200 PBC ..sorry, no lumen rating) but I just read something that was kinda odd..only use alkiline batteries? No lithium or lith-ion or ni-cad? Anybody got any thing on this? DC voltage has flavors?:confused: I recall someone out there in More-land was a battery expert.....anyone....Bueller? Bueller?

kdweb:

I don't know of any restrictions on the type of battery used in the DIY design that I am building and I can't think of a reason to restrict the battery type on any other design. As noted in previous replies, it's really a matter of providing the correct voltage for your system. The "micropuck" configuration used in the system I am building ("parallel buck/boost") accepts a wide voltage range (from 1 to 7 Volts). The following link will take you to data sheets for various micropuck configurations that might be helpful:

http://www.ledsupply.com/docs/MicroPuck-Applications.pdf

SteveM

[scoop]

Screw LED and HID. Halogen is it!

I'd say this is a matter of personal preference rather than something that can be stated authoritatively. I much prefer the light thrown by the LED's I've started using over the halogen setup I had in the past. It is from a different place in the color spectrum, but the right product produces excellent light. The LED technology offers more light with less power and less weight and even less hassle, as the batteries run longer and the bulbs don't go out. I commute year-round and do a fair amount of night mountain biking and have yet to have the LED's go dead midway like the old halogen did. Though I'm an unrecognized bike racer, I quickly lost count of the number of people I passed by at Big Bear last year who were crawling along because their old halogen system didn't give them enough light to ride at speed.

[scoop]

I was thinking of buying the tail light. The mount sucks, eh? That's kind of a big factor the way I commute. I have busted a few lousy mounts and lost the lights. The 200 tail light is a bit expensive to loose.



The mount isn't great but it works and I doubt it's going to work loose and cause one to lose the light. I purchased the Dinotte taillight last fall and just finished using it through the winter. No problems with the mount, though I think it could be improved. The light is very bright and has a real impact on how cars pass you. The flash burst setting is also very effective on rainy days, like yesterday, and other times when it isn't dark but the light is low.

[scoop]

I'd love to know what you think of the 600L when you get it. My L&M HID is probably on its final legs (it has 2 years of Wakefield rides plus 2 complete winters of commuting) and I'm looking to replace it this fall. The 600L is on my short list of replacements. I have their tailight, and while I love the light itself, the mounting system is the stupidest one I've ever seen on a light. It looks like the 600L has a real mount though.

I've been using the 600L since last spring. Used it a Big Bear, Wakefield all season and use it for daily commuting. This light throws more than enough light for all those uses. At Big Bear I also wore a 200L on my helmet, but having the helmet spotlight is a luxury and not a necessity with the 600L on the bar, particularly if you have the light with the wider lens. For commuting, the flash burst setting is great for low light riding by significantly increasing my visibility. The mount for the 600L is solid and the rubber ring used on the smaller lights works fine as well.

[jabberwocky]

The mount for the 600L is solid and the rubber ring used on the smaller lights works fine as well.The mounts on the smaller lights work ok, but they certainly aren't great. I'm personally not happy that a taillight costing 150+ dollars has a mount that doesn't work as well as my 20 dollar cateye blinky.

Dinotte has this obsession with making the lights easy to remove (which they are), but the o-rings are not a good solution for someone who just wants to mount the damn light and have it pointing the same direction a week later without messing with it. The Dinotte just gets run in the winter when I want a bright light. During the spring and summer I just leave the cateye on there because its much less of a pain to deal with.

Now, the light itself is amazing. On the high setting its nearly as bright as my HID headlight. I usually point it facing downward somewhat so it illuminates a huge portion of pavement behind me, and I've had zero trouble with cars when its running. On high, the battery life sucks (as in less than hour) but on the lower settings it lasts longer.

I'm interested in the 600L, but I'm not buying it unless I'm sure I like the mounting system for both helmet and bars.

[kdweb]

If your foundation is questionable then mine is non-existent because I have no idea about what you just said. :D I have a complete layman's knowledge of this stuff. I don't have any formal background in electronics or engineering. Everything I know is from reading many, many threads at the various forums and piecing together a working knowledge of these lights.

Don't be too impressed! Just a childhood of taking apart and playing with electronic things that were headed to the trash heap then 2 years of it in High School Electronics Shop. Think of a Zener as a simple voltage regulator for DC Circuits.

What's the cost of that 2009 Puck?

[wrench177]

I'm interested in the 600L, but I'm not buying it unless I'm sure I like the mounting system for both helmet and bars.
I don't have a 600L, but I've read a lot about it and saw pictures of the mounts they use. They appear to be IDENTICAL to the mounts my NightPro uses and I really like those mounts. Set 'em and forget 'em. No rubber bands, break-away disks or strange off center cantilevered mounts. Just a simple bar clamp that can be pointed in any direction you choose...and will stay there.

https://store.nexternal.com/dinotte/images/600L_ON_BIKE3.jpg

https://store.nexternal.com/dinotte/images/600L_4CELL_4CELL5.jpg

[eloach]

The mounts on the smaller lights work ok, but they certainly aren't great. I'm personally not happy that a taillight costing 150+ dollars has a mount that doesn't work as well as my 20 dollar cateye blinky.

Dinotte has this obsession with making the lights easy to remove (which they are), but the o-rings are not a good solution for someone who just wants to mount the damn light and have it pointing the same direction a week later without messing with it. The Dinotte just gets run in the winter when I want a bright light. During the spring and summer I just leave the cateye on there because its much less of a pain to deal with.

Now, the light itself is amazing. On the high setting its nearly as bright as my HID headlight. I usually point it facing downward somewhat so it illuminates a huge portion of pavement behind me, and I've had zero trouble with cars when its running. On high, the battery life sucks (as in less than hour) but on the lower settings it lasts longer.

I'm interested in the 600L, but I'm not buying it unless I'm sure I like the mounting system for both helmet and bars.

I have the 600L. The bar mount is great. The helmet mount might require the use of a phillips screw driver to adjust the angle... I have not actually tried it on the helmet yet. As far as I can tell, you can move it a little bit without the screw driver, but I switch from road to MTB with the same helmet, so I need to be able to move it about quite a bit, and using a screw driver to do so does not appeal to me. Now, I bought it for the bar anyways, since the MOAB battery doesn't mount worth JACK to the frame and slides all over the place (NOW THAT'S ANNOYING) and therefore is going to end up being helmet only.

Next time I am going to be someplace I expect to see you, I'll bring the entire kit and you can check it out. The weight to brightness/run time is amazing.

[jabberwocky]

I have the 600L. The bar mount is great. The helmet mount might require the use of a phillips screw driver to adjust the angle... I have not actually tried it on the helmet yet. As far as I can tell, you can move it a little bit without the screw driver, but I switch from road to MTB with the same helmet, so I need to be able to move it about quite a bit, and using a screw driver to do so does not appeal to me. Now, I bought it for the bar anyways, since the MOAB battery doesn't mount worth JACK to the frame and slides all over the place (NOW THAT'S ANNOYING) and therefore is going to end up being helmet only.

Next time I am going to be someplace I expect to see you, I'll bring the entire kit and you can check it out. The weight to brightness/run time is amazing.Sweet! Thats good to know. I want to replace my HID before it dies entirely (it has 4 years of very consistent use so it won't be too much longer). I think the ARC will be ok for the few endurance races I'm doing so I probably won't be in the market until the days start getting shorter at the end of the year.

On beam shots I've seen of the Dinotte, I haven't really liked how "spot light" it is. I like that my ARC throws a lot of peripheral light. I notice that Dinotte offers a wide beam option, but I've never seen a beam shot of it.

[scoop]

The mounts on the smaller lights work ok, but they certainly aren't great. I'm personally not happy that a taillight costing 150+ dollars has a mount that doesn't work as well as my 20 dollar cateye blinky.

Dinotte has this obsession with making the lights easy to remove

I wouldn't be surprised if the company doesn't come up with something better for mounting the tailight (I might even make something for the commuter - maybe from an old stem - that's more solid). Initially the light simply came with the rubber ring, for mounting directly to the seatpost, but people complained the light rubbed their legs.

I live in the city and like the ability to easily remove the lights. Although I was initially skeptical of the rubber o-ring attachment system, I've come to like how easy this makes it to move from bike to bike and make adjustments. With a solid platform for the taillight to attach to, the rear mounting weakness would be solved.

[jabberwocky]

I wouldn't be surprised if the company doesn't come up with something better for mounting the tailight (I might even make something for the commuter - maybe from an old stem - that's more solid). Initially the light simply came with the rubber ring, for mounting directly to the seatpost, but people complained the light rubbed their legs.Yeah, I tried mounting it to the seatpost with the o-rings. It rubbed my leg, plus theres no way to adjust where it points (which makes it pretty worthless). Then I ziptied a piece of pvc under my seat and attached it to that. It worked ok, but I definitely resented having to cobble something together to mount a 150+ dollar light. :rolleyes:

Dinotte eventually released a tail light mounting bracket (https://store.nexternal.com/dinotte/images/TAIL_MOUNT.jpg) which I bought. It works pretty well, but again, the fact that it mounts using o-rings means its very prone to moving around and it needs to be adjusted occasionally.

As a professional designer, I just think the o-rings are a cop-out. They could design a more rigid mount that was just as easy to take on and off. Its a shame they put so much effort into the light itself (which is excellent) and then half-ass the mounting system.

[eloach]

Sweet! Thats good to know. I want to replace my HID before it dies entirely (it has 4 years of very consistent use so it won't be too much longer). I think the ARC will be ok for the few endurance races I'm doing so I probably won't be in the market until the days start getting shorter at the end of the year.

On beam shots I've seen of the Dinotte, I haven't really liked how "spot light" it is. I like that my ARC throws a lot of peripheral light. I notice that Dinotte offers a wide beam option, but I've never seen a beam shot of it.

I don't know which light I have, but I think it's the normal one. It throws a TON of peripheral light. So much so that I was trying to figure out if the one REI sent me was the wide beam unit... but it doesn't seem to be. The beam is MUCH wider and not as distant as my MOAB. Maybe there is an issue with the photography in the tests, although it seems they usually try to take that into account when testing lights.