so.... its time to go tubeless

[rsosborn]

i've been hearing alot about it. seems all the kids are doing it nowadays.
i switched to ultralite tubes a few years ago. i know how great that is.
i'm ready to drop tubes altogether. i know NOTHING about how to do it.

all i know is, it seems to involve some gooey fluid made by a man named
"stan". it takes rims made by him, or compatible with his "excretion". ;)

seriously, though. i have bontrager race lite wheels. they say "tubeless" on the side.
i bought them with tubes in them. i'd like to drop the tubes, while the weather is
crappy, and be ready for a smokin', pre-super-bowl ride.

[pirate]

Those wheels came on my bike too... I had to go back to the LBS to get the little tubeless valve stems that are needed for a tubeless setup. Then you just need to get some tubeless tires, put them on the rim, and use an air compressor to inflate them quickly. Pretty easy, really.

i've been hearing alot about it. seems all the kids are doing it nowadays.
i switched to ultralite tubes a few years ago. i know how great that is.
i'm ready to drop tubes altogether. i know NOTHING about how to do it.

all i know is, it seems to involve some gooey fluid made by a man named
"stan". it takes rims made by him, or compatible with his "excretion". ;)

seriously, though. i have bontrager race lite wheels. they say "tubeless" on the side.
i bought them with tubes in them. i'd like to drop the tubes, while the weather is
crappy, and be ready for a smokin', pre-super-bowl ride.

[rsosborn]

Those wheels came on my bike too... I had to go back to the LBS to get the little tubeless valve stems that are needed for a tubeless setup. Then you just need to get some tubeless tires, put them on the rim, and use an air compressor to inflate them quickly. Pretty easy, really.


what kind of bike do you have????

[pirate]

what kind of bike do you have????

2005 Trek Fuel EX8

[rsosborn]

2005 Trek Fuel EX8

wow. ok. so no "stan's" goop?

[pirate]

wow. ok. so no "stan's" goop?

You can use it, but you don't have to. It does seal up punctures nicely, but it can also screw up your tires. (depending on which ones you use)

[crack monkey]

The Stan's goop is used for using non-UST rims/tires without tubes.

Usually, non-tubeless tires are lighter, so many people will use them, with the goop, in a tubeless rim. Also, the goop will fill small punctures, which might save you carrying a tube and pump (during a race, or a short local ride).

[brian_brox]

True it isn't needed, but using one or two scoops of stans will:
(a) seal small puntures on the fly
(b) prevent slow leaks around the rim and on the tire
(c) let you run non-UST tires on UST rims
(d) add very little weight
(e) give you a visual indicator if a leak does appear

[pirate]

I would NOT recommend using Stan's if you have Kenda tires. I personally ruined two tires that way. The Stan's caused them to bubble and come apart. In fact, using ANY sealant in Kenda tires, will void the warranty... (http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html)

[werace424]

2005 Trek Fuel EX8

Nice ride. Me too!

I would NOT recommend using Stan's if you have Kenda tires. I personally ruined two tires that way. The Stan's caused them to bubble and come apart. In fact, using ANY sealant in Kenda tires, will void the warranty... (http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html)
What exactally is their warranty, I can't seem to find it on their site. (If it is there, is isn't obvious.)

True it isn't needed, but using one or two scoops of stans will:
(a) seal small puntures on the fly
(b) prevent slow leaks around the rim and on the tire
(c) let you run non-UST tires on UST rims
(d) add very little weight
(e) give you a visual indicator if a leak does appear

But, if you do use it, you will have to periodically have to re-introduce a couple of scoops because it does dry out through time.

I have a tubed kenda nevegal on the front, and a tubeless Maxis Larsen TT UST (http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=231) on the rear. I wil be going back to the Crossmark UST (http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=2348) Much better cornering traction. I am also considering going with the Nevegal Tubeless when the front wears out. :)

Peace and tubeless grease.

[pirate]

I am also considering going with the Nevegal Tubeless when the front wears out. :)


That's what I'm running on my Fuel... They are badass tires.

[repoman]

I would NOT recommend using Stan's if you have Kenda tires. I personally ruined two tires that way. The Stan's caused them to bubble and come apart. In fact, using ANY sealant in Kenda tires, will void the warranty... (http://www.kendausa.com/bicycle/technology.html)

I've been running regular Kenda Nevegals tubeless using Stan's for the past 6 months no problems. Kenda's are also one of the recommended tire brands on Stan's website. I think a lot of manufacturers besides Kenda have similar warranty disclaimers regarding running normal tires as tubeless with sealant; however, in my experience this setup works great.

Repo

[mtbmore]

I have been using Nevagals on my 29er with no ill effects since Sept. I put an extra scoop in and will probably check them this weekend to see how they are doing.

Scud

[rsosborn]

True it isn't needed, but using one or two scoops of stans will:
(a) seal small puntures on the fly
(b) prevent slow leaks around the rim and on the tire
(c) let you run non-UST tires on UST rims
(d) add very little weight
(e) give you a visual indicator if a leak does appear


ok, here's question number three. i pulled the tires last night. the rims AND tires
on my bike are full tubeless. they say simply to get the other stems, use "sealant",
and you're good to go. i take it this means to get some "stan's" goop, or is there generic sealant for those who have tubeless equipment?

if i blow these tires, i'll have no choice but play playstation all weekend. just a warning.

[brian_brox]

i take it this means to get some "stan's" goop, or is there generic sealant for those who have tubeless equipment?
I have only used Stans. A google search showed DT Swiss makes some. Maybe Slime makes sealant?

[pirate]

I say try it without the Stan's first, and see how they hold. In my opinion, that crap is a pain in the ass.
Are they the Bontrager tires that came with the bike? If so, they should work without Stan's.

[rsosborn]

I say try it without the Stan's first, and see how they hold. In my opinion, that crap is a pain in the ass.
Are they the Bontrager tires that came with the bike? If so, they should work without Stan's.

yea, man. it's a whole bontrager setup: tires, rims, hubs. the tires are stamped with "tubeless" on them. the rims are. they both mention going tubeless near the valve stems.

no offense, but this is sounding more trouble than it's worth: get a compressed air pump to inflate, use the messy goop, hope they don't "flash flat". maybe i'll stay with ultralite tubes? ;)

[crack monkey]

You only need the goop if you're using a non-tubeless tire. Tubeless tires are built to hold the air on their own (without tube or goop) - that's why they often weigh more than regular tires.

Try it without the goo, and carry a tube just in case. The compressor is to seat the tire on the rim quickly - sometimes you can do it with a floor pump, sometimes not. If you can't, you can go down to the local gas station and use their air.

[pirate]

From my experience, once you get the tubeless all set, they are awesome... I have only flatted once with them, and that was when I completely ate s#!+ and taco'd my wheel coming off of a TTF wrong. Then all I had to do was fill the tire back up with a C02 pump, and I was back in business.

[saxman]

Bontrager also makes a "goop" that goes in the tire. You need to re-apply every 6 months or so.

I tried setting up tubeless myself, but ended up making a huge mess. I went to my LBS and let them deal with it. They did a great job. To me, it was worth paying them the money to do it.

I'm real happy with tubeless. I'm using the tubeless version of the Panaracer Fire XC Pro. I have had zero flats with tubeless (knocking on wood!!!). Even though the tires are narrower (2.1 versus 2.2) than the tubed tires they replaced, the profile is much wider and the tire behaves like a wider tire...you get almost all that 2.1 inches on the ground versus a smaller contact patch on the 2.2

[rsosborn]

From my experience, once you get the tubeless all set, they are awesome... I have only flatted once with them, and that was when I completely ate s#!+ and taco'd my wheel coming off of a TTF wrong. Then all I had to do was fill the tire back up with a C02 pump, and I was back in business.

ok, so it's simply time to dump my floor and hand pumps then? ;) and grab a compressed air pump? maybe i can give them to my girlfriend.

[jabberwocky]

I've had no trouble inflating the UST tires on my freeride bike with a floor pump. They are DH casing tires (Maxxis Minions), which may influence how difficult they are. Rims are Mavic 823s.

[DaveG]

I've had no trouble inflating the UST tires on my freeride bike with a floor pump. They are DH casing tires (Maxxis Minions), which may influence how difficult they are. Rims are Mavic 823s.


That caused enough of a seal that I was able to get them on w/ a floor pump.

[pirate]

Yeah, I think that's the proper way to do it. I'm just lazy... The compressor was there, so I used it. Actually the soap would probably stop some of the crazy popping noises that always scare the S out of me too.

[rsosborn]

Yeah, I think that's the proper way to do it. I'm just lazy... The compressor was there, so I used it. Actually the soap would probably stop some of the crazy popping noises that always scare the S out of me too.


ok, very very last question. where do you get those fancy stems??? HTO didn't seem
to know.

[toonces]

yea, man. it's a whole bontrager setup: tires, rims, hubs. the tires are stamped with "tubeless" on them. the rims are. they both mention going tubeless near the valve stems.

TBL just converted my new Trek Fuel EX9 with Bontager ACX-Tubeless Ready tires to tubeless. I needed to get tubeless rim strips and the valve stem for the Bontrager Race-Lite rims that came with the bike.

Bontrager tubeless tires use what they refer to as Tubeless Ready technology. It is lighter than a regular UST tire because they leave out the extra layer of rubber needed to seal a normal tubeless tire. But it requires the use of a sealant, either Bontager Super Juice or Stans. The Tubeless Ready version of their tires also use a dual tread compound call Gum-Bi that is grippier on than their regular tires.

Here's a link to some Bontrager tech articles that explain Tubeless Ready and Tubeless using their rims.

http://www.bontrager.com/Workshop/Tech_Articles.php

[eloach]

I have a set of MAVIC ST with Stans added and they have yet to leak air or go flat. I had the Stans put in because I wanted the best seal possible.

The only PIA with tubeless/Stans is if you like to change your tire model regularly.

[pbayne]

rsosborn,

you can get the valve stems direct from Stan's No-Tubes. Their website also has a good discussion forum full of all the quirks and tricks to get the system to work for you.

Some tips you'll see alot: use tons of soap and water to help with the first seal, definitely go with an air compressor, and pre-inflate the tires with a tube if they are new so that they take shape.

I've been racing on the system for several years now and love it. I use non-tubeless rims, standard tires, and just a little of the goup. I've had no problems. I even use tires that stan's specifically does not recommend and they work great. Tons of pro racers to this. Its a great weight-weenie system. For a more bomber system use the UST tires with lots of goo. It weighs a ton, but will not fail.

[rmac]

Several months ago, my rear Kenda UST tire severly bubbled & I had no idea what caused it. It was pretty freaky looking, the huge bubbles were in between layers of the tire. Maybe it was the Stans, maybe it wasn't. I thought it was the motorcycle spray lube I used on my chain (smelled toxic/wasn't a good idea).

Other than that, if you go sealant - I'd go Stan's. When I first went tubeless, I tried slime, after a few puntures I switched to stans & no more flats.

[jed]

Definitely use soapy water when inflating, regardless of the tire. It lubes the beads and helps them seat.

You can inflate UST tires with a floor pump 99.9% of the time. A compressor does it quicker, and also requires less inflation pressure because it is forcing air into the tire at high pressure. Sometimes if the tire is tight you have to inflate it to the max recommended pressure with a floor pump to get the beads ot seat fully. I have blown a couple of tires off rims this way. By contrast, using a compressor I rarely have to inflate to more than 40 psi to seat a tire, even a really tight UST tire.

Stans sealant is a good idea in UST tires because they will get small holes in them over time. If you run over a thorn or something and get a slow leak, you then risk pinch-flatting or rolling a tire later in the ride. You can ruin a tire if you pinch because there will be a small hole near the bead that may or may not be patchable. Stans is cheap insurance. Half a scoop in a UST tire is plenty.

Use Stan's valve stems, especially if you plan on running the sealant. The removable valve core is key. You can order them directly from his web site. Bontrager rims also require the plastic rim strips to make them airtight for tubeless use. I have a couple of sets of Bontrager tubeless rims/wheels and they work well, especially if you plan to run regular tires with sealant. Tires fit tight but that helps them inflate and reduces the risk of burping at low pressures.

Honestly, I think regular tires with Stans is the way to go. Regular tubes tires are lighter and cheaper, and will hold air and stay on the rim if mounted and sealed correctly. I have run Maxxis, Kenda, Hutchinson, Specialized, and Ritchey tires on Stans rims and Mavic and Bontrager UST rims and all worked fine. Some are easier to inflate and/or seal than others, but all can work.

[rsosborn]

so just grab a "stan's kit"? it will have the valve stems and everything?

[pbayne]

A stans kit is really just some rim strips and a bottle of sealant, a scoop for the sealant and some rim tape. you'll have to buy the valve stems from the no-tubes website.

[repoman]

Stans sells a complete tubeless system kit for around $60. It includes rimstrips with the removable presta valve cores. This kit has all you need. They are available both from Stans direct or Jenson:

http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/cPath/21_58/products_id/30
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TU407Z00-Stans+No+Tubes+Complete+System.aspx

[rsosborn]

TBL just converted my new Trek Fuel EX9 with Bontager ACX-Tubeless Ready tires to tubeless. I needed to get tubeless rim strips and the valve stem for the Bontrager Race-Lite rims that came with the bike.

Bontrager tubeless tires use what they refer to as Tubeless Ready technology. It is lighter than a regular UST tire because they leave out the extra layer of rubber needed to seal a normal tubeless tire. But it requires the use of a sealant, either Bontager Super Juice or Stans. The Tubeless Ready version of their tires also use a dual tread compound call Gum-Bi that is grippier on than their regular tires.

Here's a link to some Bontrager tech articles that explain Tubeless Ready and Tubeless using their rims.

http://www.bontrager.com/Workshop/Tech_Articles.php

ok. sorry if i'm belaboring it. i read through this article before. i didn't remember them saying flat out what i'd need. so i need the complete kit with sealant/strips and
then the stems????

I looked at the spoke beds in my rims. They're layered with thick blue plastic and
don't seem to need sealing (the strips).

[toonces]

The blue plastic is the one-piece Schwalbe rim tape that comes with the wheels from the factory for use with tubes. Here's a picture.

http://www.schwalbetires.com/accessories/rim_tape

It is not a tubeless rimstrip, which is rubber. Here's a picture of the Bontrager tubeless rimstrip. The Stans should work too according to the Stans website.

http://www.bontrager.com/Mountain/Parts_and_Accessories/Wheel_Accessories/6914.php

If you are going to use UST tires, you don't need sealant. If you are going to use the Bontrager Tubeless Ready or a regular non-tubeless tire, you must use a sealant.

And either way you will need a tubeless rimstrip and valve.

[jabberwocky]

And either way you will need a tubeless rimstrip and valve.Mavic UST rims actually don't need the rimstrip. They use a threaded eyelet that never penetrates fully through the rim, negating the need for it. They still need the valve. Ok, I'm done nitpicking now. :)

As others noted, the standard rim strip is almost certainly not airtight. Its purpose is just to keep the tube from poking into the end of the spokes and popping. You'll need a rimstrip designed to seal air in.

The reason you need sealant is that regular tires aren't designed to be airtight by themselves. Even with a good seal at the bead and the rim itself totally sealed, they would slowly deflate through the walls of the tire itself. The sealant coats the inside of the tire and eventually seals it. UST tires are designed to be airtight by themselves.

[rsosborn]

The blue plastic is the one-piece Schwalbe rim tape that comes with the wheels from the factory for use with tubes. Here's a picture.

http://www.schwalbetires.com/accessories/rim_tape

It is not a tubeless rimstrip, which is rubber. Here's a picture of the Bontrager tubeless rimstrip. The Stans should work too according to the Stans website.

http://www.bontrager.com/Mountain/Parts_and_Accessories/Wheel_Accessories/6914.php

If you are going to use UST tires, you don't need sealant. If you are going to use the Bontrager Tubeless Ready or a regular non-tubeless tire, you must use a sealant.

And either way you will need a tubeless rimstrip and valve.


damn.........i don't know what to say. you guys are good! "performance bike" had never heard of stan's stems. one HTO shop didn't have them.

[toonces]

Mavic UST rims actually don't need the rimstrip. They use a threaded eyelet that never penetrates fully through the rim, negating the need for it. They still need the valve. Ok, I'm done nitpicking now. :)

But these are Bontrager RaceLite rims and they are not UST; they are Tubeless-Compatible. The RaceLites on my 08 Fuel have a warning sticker at the valve that reads "Do not use in tubeless mode without special tire and rimstrip at safe inflation pressure."


From the Bontrager online manual at:

http://www.bike-manual.com/brands/bontrager/om/BT/bontrager.html

Bontrager Tubeless-Compatible system overview

this is Bontrager marketing drivel waiting for balmer's input

Some bicycles are equipped with a Bontrager Tubeless-Compatible wheel system. This section explains the requirements of this system.

This system can be used with "Tubeless" tires, "Tubeless-Ready" tires, and also with standard tires when an inner tube is used. The tubeless mode requires special parts:

• Tubeless tire -or- Tubeless-Ready tire with Super Juice

• Tubeless rim

• Tubeless rim strip

• Tubeless valve stem

On some models of bicycles, "Tubeless-compatible" wheelsets are sold without these components installed.



On top of all that, the rear rim has an offset spoke bed marked "O.S.B." on the rim and uses a different rimstrip (asymmetrical) than the front rim (symmetrical). Bontrager sure does make this difficult. :confused:

Part Numbers:
Rear Rim Strip Asymmetrical: 220225
Front Rim Strip Symmetrical: 211823
Valve w/removable core: 250324

All priced around $4 each.

So all you need to do is go to a LBS that sells Trek or Gary Fisher and order those parts. A bottle of Stans with a measuring cup goes for about $15.00. So for around $30 you get everything you need and you can sleep easy knowing you got the correct parts made for your rims. And if you join MORE and use a LBS that is a MORE sponsor you'll get an additional 10% off. ;)

And while you're there you can order a seat clamp or your Hi-Fi. :D

[jed]

BTW, those blue Schwalbe rim strips work great in Mavic UST rims if you are running regular tires tubeless. They make the tires fit a little tighter so they seal better. I have burped regular tires on Mavic UST rims, but not with the blue rim strips. Well, I did once but I was running 24 psi in my back tire when it happened. And they are really light.

Anyway, sounds like you have it covered for the Bontrager rims.

[rsosborn]

BTW, those blue Schwalbe rim strips work great in Mavic UST rims if you are running regular tires tubeless. They make the tires fit a little tighter so they seal better. I have burped regular tires on Mavic UST rims, but not with the blue rim strips. Well, I did once but I was running 24 psi in my back tire when it happened. And they are really light.

Anyway, sounds like you have it covered for the Bontrager rims.

so you're saying leave the schwalbe strips UNDER the tubeless strips? or just use the schwalbe's alone?

[sevenforty]

Just some more info on going tubeless that you might be interested in:

http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/goodies/go-tubeless.htm

Also information on tubeless conversion, repairs, flats, etc: http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/index.htm (scroll down in the left frame to the bottom)

utahmountainbiking.com, while having God-awful graphics and horrific HTML frames, has good info on fixing bikes, first aid, gear, etc.

Also, all the info you'll ever need on Utah trails if you ever make it out there.

[werace424]

so you're saying leave the schwalbe strips UNDER the tubeless strips? or just use the schwalbe's alone?

My LBS told me the blue strips won't work properly. I already have the proper parts from my old bike, so they had no reason to mislead me, I wasn't purchasing anything. (Besides the fact they have always been completely honest with me.) :)
I just removed the blue strip, and put in the valves and the correct rim strip some stans, and wa-la....Tubeless!!! Riding the road one day for about 40ft, I caught a piece of glass and it took me stopping twice and refilling the tire, but it did seal and is still holding a month later...:)

Just do it right the first time and you shouldn't have any issues.

[micky]

Nashbar has a good deal on Mavic Crossland 'ust' wheels. while they might not be the lightest, it should be a good quality wheelset that just needs some ust tires for about $150.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000126&subcategory=60001201&brand=&sku=23043&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20MT B%20Wheels%20%2D%20Front

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000126&subcategory=60001202&brand=&sku=23044&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20MT B%20Wheels%20%2D%20Rear

[anomaly]

Nashbar has a good deal on Mavic Crossland 'ust' wheels. while they might not be the lightest, it should be a good quality wheelset that just needs some ust tires for about $150.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000126&subcategory=60001201&brand=&sku=23043&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20MT B%20Wheels%20%2D%20Front

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=6000126&subcategory=60001202&brand=&sku=23044&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20MT B%20Wheels%20%2D%20Rear

I have that wheelset (came with the bike), MAXXIS High Roller UST tires and have ordered the Mavic UST stems. I'll let you know how they work here in about a week. Interestingly they have a rim strip already in them, so I think they are a cheaper rim that Mavic just installs a tubeless rimstrip at the factory to make them UST.

Also, where can I get STANS in NOVA/DC?

[Squirrel Girl]

Also, where can I get STANS in NOVA/DC?The Bike Lane has it in their shop, but I don't know if they sell it in bottles. It's worth a phone call.

[Dr Phil mmkay]

I'm considering going tubeless on my FR bike eventually, once I get some seat time in. Any suggestions on rim choices? I'm looking for something sturdy and decently priced, considering they will be seeing used on the harder side of the spectrum.

I'm thinking Hadleys fr(20thru-maxle) & rr(135mm qr), DT comp spokes, and brass nipples.