What Frame BESIDES One9?

[drewdane]

If you were in the market for an SS-specific 29er frame but could or would NOT get a Niner One9, what would you get instead? Caveat: Preferably not Steel. Caveat 2: Off-the shelf only - no custom.

[DaveG]

If you were in the market for an SS-specific 29er frame but could or would NOT get a Niner One9, what would you get instead? Caveat: Preferably not Steel. Caveat 2: Off-the shelf only - no custom.

I know you said not steel, but these are nice. They also have a Ti bike, but it's MUCH more expensive.

http://vassagocycles.com/jabberwocky.html


Why don't you want steel? I honestly can't think of any SS specific Al. frames, but I'm not an expert.

Dave

[jabberwocky]

Gary Fisher makes several complete aluminum bikes that I would assume are available as a frameset.

Niner makes an aluminum frame (the one9 is aluminum) as well as a steel (the sir9). They are one of the nicest off the shelf frames, but they are expensive.

Salsa makes a few 29er frames. The Mamasita is their 29er aluminum race frame.

Seriously there are a ton of options out there. It seems every company on the planet has to have a 29er singlespeed in their lineup these days.

Two questions though: why aluminum, and why not Niner? :)

[drewdane]

Why don't you want steel? I honestly can't think of any SS specific Al. frames, but I'm not an expert.


Two questions though: why aluminum, and why not Niner? :)
While I've really, really enjoyed my Dos Niner as an SS, I'm thinking about slapping gears and a suspension fork on it and having it replace my Stumpjumper. If I do that, though, I'm going to want an SS option as well. Thus the query. :)

Not steel mainly for weight reasons (yes, I know there are some nice lightweight steel frames out there - at a premium), and a tiny bit for care reasons - given my tendency to ignore basic maintenance, I don't want to worry about rust, even hypothetically.

The One9 is what I want - I'm just trying to make sure I'm not overlooking some other frame that could be "the one" (too bad that ti Vassago is 600 smackers more than the One9 :eek: !). Lots of people say Scandium is nothing but hype. I disagree - My Scandium Dos Niner is appreciably lighter than it would be with traditional aluminum construction.

I'm also considering the Salsa Mamacita (now that is one sexy frame!), but it's designed for gears and I figure if I'm going to have an SS-dedicated bike, I might as well dispense with the tensioner.

[Dirt]

How about the Niner One9? Oh shucks. You said something about that in your original post.

Uhhhmmmm....

I'm sure there are some nice alloy, SS, 29er frames out there, but none come to mind at the moment.

I'm contemplating a One9 for something to goof around with. I love my SIR9 so much, that I thought it might be fun for it to have a girlfriend. I got a bunch of other projects before I boob around with that though.

Edit: Ventana El Padrino 29er is pretty dang sweeeeeeeeeet. (http://www.ventanausa.com/frame_elpadrino.html)

Edit Edit: Oops. It is the El Camendante that is the SS Model (http://www.ventanausa.com/frame_elcomandante.html). Sowwy.

XOXOXYZ

Pete

[DaveG]

While I've really, really enjoyed my Dos Niner as an SS, I'm thinking about slapping gears and a suspension fork on it and having it replace my Stumpjumper. If I do that, though, I'm going to want an SS option as well. Thus the query. :)

Not steel mainly for weight reasons (yes, I know there are some nice lightweight steel frames out there - at a premium), and a tiny bit for care reasons - given my tendency to ignore basic maintenance, I don't want to worry about rust, even hypothetically.

The One9 is what I want - I'm just trying to make sure I'm not overlooking some other frame that could be "the one" (too bad that ti Vassago is 600 smackers more than the One9 :eek: !). Lots of people say Scandium is nothing but hype. I disagree - My Scandium Dos Niner is appreciably lighter than it would be with traditional aluminum construction.

I'm also considering the Salsa Mamacita (now that is one sexy frame!), but it's designed for gears and I figure if I'm going to have an SS-dedicated bike, I might as well dispense with the tensioner.

One thought though; EBBs tend to creak if you ignore maintainance. Not sure how much that bothers you (it drives me crazy).

If you're OK w/ the EBB and it fits, then get the One9. It's a sweet frame and Niner is a great company. I agree on the SS specific part. If you already have a geared HT (or close enough) no reason not to get a SS specific frame.

Dave

[drewdane]

One thought though; EBBs tend to creak if you ignore maintainance. Not sure how much that bothers you (it drives me crazy).

Dave
Oooh, I hadn't thought about that - good point!

[TiRyder]

On-One
Origin8
Spicer


If you are considering Ti, Carver makes a 29er Ti that is 999.99. You can get it any configuration you like, H-Drops, standard drops, etc. They even do custom geometry at no upcharge, pretty sweet deal. Plum Grove is a dealer.

http://www.carverbikes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=7

you could also look at XACD for a budget Ti frame:

http://www.xacd.com.cn/product.asp?rootcl=1&cls=1

The Carver and the XACD Ti frames dont have some of the bells and whistles that some domestic frames have, but are quality frames that come with guarantees, are good deals and made in same or similar factories as the Vassago, Spicer, and the upcoming Niner Ti frame. FWIW, I really dig the Spicer/XACD Newsboy/Cruiser frame that can be ordered SS 29er.

[TiRyder]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I have the Vassago Optimus Ti that was the prototype. I ended up buying it from them when they switched from the H-Drops to sliders. I have the original H-Drop bike. If you like, I can let you demo it or just check it out. I think we are about same height.

You can see it here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41551065@N00/sets/72157603591664964/

[drewdane]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I have the Vassago Optimus Ti that was the prototype. I ended up buying it from them when they switched from the H-Drops to sliders. I have the original H-Drop bike. If you like, I can let you demo it or just check it out. I think we are about same height.

You can see it here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41551065@N00/sets/72157603591664964/

Thanks, but the Vassago is out of the budget range. I can live with angering the wife, but that would be suicidal! :eek:

[jabberwocky]

Not steel mainly for weight reasons (yes, I know there are some nice lightweight steel frames out there - at a premium), and a tiny bit for care reasons - given my tendency to ignore basic maintenance, I don't want to worry about rust, even hypothetically.Honestly, the weight difference between a typical steel and aluminum frame is not that big these days (the difference between the One9 and Sir9 is about a pound). If you are worried about every pound I guess it might matter, but singlespeeds tend to be light anyway (ditching the derailleurs and shifters does help). I think that Surly gives steel a bad name in the weight department sometimes. :)

And I'll note that for a rigid bike, steel does ride a lot better. The difference is subtle, but spend time switching between aluminum and steel bikes and you'll definitely notice it. Its amazing how much more beat up I feel when I ride my aluminum cross bike to work now over my steel fixxie, and thats on mostly smooth pavement.

As for maintenance, I wouldn't worry that much. Treat the frame with frame saver when you get it and you'll be good. I ride a steel bike commuting year round and don't have any problems even when I commute in the rain. The bottom bracket shell tends to get a little rust in the bottom, but the rest of the bike is pristine. I treated it once when I bought it, which was about 18 months (and 5000+ miles) ago. I'll probably tear the bike down in the spring and treat it again just for the hell of it, but it seems to be doing ok without it.

But theres nothing wrong with aluminum, if thats what you really want. And if you are building a true gram-counting weight weenie machine, aluminum is lighter. :)

The One9 is what I want - I'm just trying to make sure I'm not overlooking some other frame that could be "the one" (too bad that ti Vassago is 600 smackers more than the One9 :eek: !). Lots of people say Scandium is nothing but hype. I disagree - My Scandium Dos Niner is appreciably lighter than it would be with traditional aluminum construction.The Niner frames are definitely popular for a reason. But there are a ton of SS specific 29er frames out there, especially if you look at steel frames. If you are considering the One9, almost every off-the-shelf frame is within your price range, as well as some of the cheaper custom options.

[TiRyder]

Thanks, but the Vassago is out of the budget range. I can live with angering the wife, but that would be suicidal! :eek:


Yeah, but is 999.00? Tha vassago will be very similar to the Carver or XACD, possibly even same manufacturer.

[punga]

Might as well be me ;) (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34375)

Sliding drop outs, removable hanger, AL frame, hard to go wrong.

Or, even though its steel (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08exile29.html#), it's a good deal or the AL (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/08dakota29.html) version (geared, though).

p!

[jabberwocky]

If you are willing to look at steel, here are a few relatively high-end options:

Gunnar Ruffian (http://www.gunnarbikes.com/ruffian.php)
Voodoo Dambala (http://voodoocycles.net/07_dambala.htm)

Voodoo makes a scandium frame, too. The Voodoo Aizan (http://voodoocycles.net/07_aizan.htm), but it isn't SS specific.

[jabberwocky]

Might as well be me ;) (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34375)That looks pretty nice, especially if you want an aluminum frame. Do you know how much it weighs?

I personally like the sliding dropout method of chain tensioning better than EBBs.

[DaveG]

Might as well be me ;) (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=34375)

Sliding drop outs, removable hanger, AL frame, hard to go wrong.

p!

It's not SS _specific_, but it can certainly be run w/o a tensioner. I've heard really good things about them as well. It's a sweet looking frame.

I'd run steel over Al personally (don't generally like Al hardtails) but my next frame is going to be a Quiring Ti w/ paragon sliders ;)

[punga]

That looks pretty nice, especially if you want an aluminum frame. Do you know how much it weighs?

I personally like the sliding dropout method of chain tensioning better than EBBs.
Specialized doesn't list the frame weights and I haven't gotten my hands on one (yo, Mike, what's up?) yet.

M5 is their lightest frameset, so, I'm betting it's in the 3 - 3.5 lbs range, if I had to guess.

p!

[cxrcr]

Scandium frame with sliding drop outs (rather than squeaking ebb). Currently on blowout from bikeman (http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/KONASALE/KON2K7KULA29)

[BikerMiker]

Punga, there are two rockhopper 29rs down in Adams Morgan. They are getting transferred up at some point.

mike

[ride_clyde]

EBB is the only issue I see.

Van Dessel Ramble Tamble (http://www.vandesselsports.com/rambletamble.php?bike=11)

[Dirt]

I'm probably the only person around that actually looks at the EBB as a feature.

For me, chain stays that are independently adjustable for length is a frame alignment problem in action. I'm a bigger guy and I'm probably more picky about such things than most.

If you're going to run an external bearing BB, then sliding dropouts are the only way to go.

With a square taper BB, I can service the EBB without removing the cranks. Once every two or three months do I actually remove the crank and completely clean everything out.

Pete

[29x1]

The new GF Rig is sold as a dedicated SS but has a replaceable drop on right side so you can run geared or SS.

[mark w]

Is it me or does it seem that Drew is compensating for something with this obsession for big wheeled bikes?:D:D

Drew what you need is MORE TRAVEL muhahahahahahah

[drewdane]

Is it me or does it seem that Drew is compensating for something with this obsession for big wheeled bikes?:D:D

Drew what you need is MORE TRAVEL muhahahahahahah

Sorry, I can't hear you - I have my head immersed in a barrel of koolaid. :D

[drewdane]

My resolve is weakening a bit on the question of steel vs. Al, largely because of compliance (I realized the soft tail shock on my Dos, even though I have it set to max pressure, is probably still insulating me from the harshness of the frame's aluminum construction).

Anybody have experience with the Soma Juice? While it doesn't seem like the lightest frame on the block, it's not the heaviest either. The geometry seems like it would fit my proportions well, it's priced nicely, and it shore is purty!

Reading reviews, It appears some people don't care for the rear spacing (road hub adaptability messing with tire clearance), but Soma's discontinuing that feature anyway.

Some folks also complain about flex, but that isn't an issue for me (w/in reason). Flex/compliance, toMAYto/toMAHto is what I say...

Paragon sliding dropouts look like a bit of a PITA, but I could probably live with it once it's dialed in.

Anybody care to add their real-world take to the mix?

[allencb]

I think that Surly gives steel a bad name in the weight department sometimes. :)

Eh, as long as I have a few pounds to lose, I'm not going to sweat an extra pound on my Surly. :cool:

Steel does ride much better. I noticed this when I went from my Klein fully rigid SS to my 1x1. Same components, just different frame, yet I feel much fresher after a long ride.

Drew, while not as sexy as Niner or some of the other brands listed above, JensonUSA is selling their steel 29er SS frame for $180 sans fork. That's cheap enough that you could probably replace it if you don't care for it for some reason. It has an EBB though. I have no clue how they ride, just something I noticed the other day...

Chris

[jabberwocky]

Eh, as long as I have a few pounds to lose, I'm not going to sweat an extra pound on my Surly. :cool:Surlys are indeed nice bikes. But a Karate Monkey frame is heavier than my 5" travel FS frame including the shock. :)

Most of the more expensive steel frames (made from higher quality butted tubing) are pretty close to aluminum. The One9 (scandium aluminum) and Sir9 (Reynolds steel) are very similar other than material and are about a pound apart. Built up with the same components, I bet very few people could actually feel the difference in weight while riding.

Steel does ride much better. I noticed this when I went from my Klein fully rigid SS to my 1x1. Same components, just different frame, yet I feel much fresher after a long ride.I agree, although its hard to tell while riding. I mean, rigid feels rigid no matter what. But I always feel better after a long ride on the steel road bike than my aluminum (and both have the exact same tires). The comparison I would make is its like hitting your hand with a bare hammer versus hitting it with a hammer with some foam rubber on the end. They both hurt, but the foam rubber one hurts just a little bit less. :D

[Dirt]

The Karate Monkey is not a good bike to evaluate how steel bikes can feel. Because of the way that bike is built, it is one rigid mamma-jamma. The fork, in particular, doesn't have much, if any give in it.

I loved my karate monkeys, but they were definitely a very different ride from the SIR9 that I have now. Very different price range too.

Pete

[punga]

... comparison I would make is its like hitting your hand with a bare hammer versus hitting it with a hammer with some foam rubber on the end. They both hurt, but the foam rubber one hurts just a little bit less. :D

I like the idea of hitting Jabber's hand with a hammers, foam or otherwise. It could be a parlor game at the MORE winter party. :D

End thread derailment.

If Drew is thinking steel, than the Jamis Exile I linked to earlier is still an option.

p!

[jabberwocky]

I like the idea of hitting Jabber's hand with a hammers, foam or otherwise. It could be a parlor game at the MORE winter party. :DNo! I need my hands to make obscene gestures at cars! And also to hold onto the handlebars! :p

[Dirt]

No! I need my hands to make obscene gestures at cars! :p

The mouth is mightier than the finger. ;)

Hugs and Kisses,

Pete

PS: I still think Drew shold get a One9 or SIR9. :D

[Dirt]

Speaking of the One9 and SIR9. I think Rainman did a side-by-side comparison of the two a while back. You might want to check out MTBR (My Tiny Brain Rants) and see if you can find that thread.

Pete

[DMarchy1]

I have tested the Soma Juice. Very nice ride. I think Jonathan at Family bikes in crofton MD has one you could test. give him a call. you can test ride it at Rosaryville when it dries out.

[drewdane]

Update: Just pulled the trigger on a Mamacita, on closeout at Speedgoat!

[Dirt]

Update: Just pulled the trigger on a Mamacita, on closeout at Speedgoat!

For obvious reasons, I don't think you made a horrible choice. I will point out that the Mamasita isn't actually a single speed-specific frame. You're either going to have to ride with 34x19 gearing or run a tensioner.

The bike is awesome though. It is definitely a lively ride with the rigid fork.

Pete

[drewdane]

For obvious reasons, I don't think you made a horrible choice. I will point out that the Mamasita isn't actually a single speed-specific frame. You're either going to have to ride with 34x19 gearing or run a tensioner.

The bike is awesome though. It is definitely a lively ride with the rigid fork.

Pete

Yeah, I know. I'm thinking eccentric rear hub. I'm looking forward to having it ready to go! Someday. Hopefully someday soon. As in, by next Spring. :rolleyes: